On forth van now, always tailgate.
On forth van now, always tailgate.
So you lack perspective. Unlike those of us who have both lifted and swung in equal measure.
Buying today, I'd get a bigger van with barn doors, fit shelves to them and stuff them with bike stuff like lubes, oils, spare gloves and stuff.
Personal preference is tailgate, I just found barn doors always seem to be in the way somehow.
I've only had one van, the van I have now, and it has a tailgate.
So i'm gonna say that tailgates are The bestest, and barn doors are rubbish!
So i’m gonna say that tailgates are The bestest, and barn doors are rubbish!
Ah, that is such the STW way, good work!
If its got a tailgate you know its never been loaded by a fork lift.
Ive barn doors and would prefer a tailgate
Another vote for tailgate!!
We have T6 LWB with barn doors and dometic windows (so they open for airflow and have blinds and fly screens built in).
I went barn doors to I could easily stand with them open and load/strap stuff on the roof. Most of the time I just stand on the tyre but it helps sometimes.
Have had four vans over the last 28 years, two barn door and two tailgate. Probably prefer tailgate, but that is multiple bikes always travelling inside and always accessed by the back door, sitting under the back door at bike races etc.
If a camper or hanging bikes on the back then might prefer barn doors.
The main hassle with tailgates is opening into overhanging bushes, vegetation etc. Or if parked the other way round, paranoia that somebody in a tall van or with a bike on a roof rack will drive into them.....
Buying today, I’d get a bigger van with barn doors, fit shelves to them and stuff them with
bikenanny stuff like lubes, oils, spare gloves and stuff.
Meh. Partner has a T5 with tailgate...it did mean you could get in the back with bikes on the boot-mounted rack, albeit with a struggle. Until the rack was nicked that was. Now have towbar mounted rack which pivots out of the way, so you can still get in the back more easily. Not sure that would be possible with barn doors, although I don't know what other options there are with barn doors (ie what the drawbacks of racks mounted on one door only are).
Never really use it as an umbrella - for me I think barn doors would be preferable to keep the wind off if weather is your thing.
Basically though I'd be looking more at the van than the rear door config.
The main hassle with tailgates is opening into overhanging bushes, vegetation etc. Or if parked the other way round, paranoia that somebody in a tall van or with a bike on a roof rack will drive into them…..
True - it's a bit of a head banging hazard at the local tip where you back onto a shared path in front of the skips - slightly raised to that the tailgate ends up close to head hight. Have taken to parking away from the kerb so the open tailgate doesn't overhang the path with people staggering past hauling wardrobes and whatnot.
Thanks all. lol at some of the comments. Not sure about the guardian readership - a high proportion of those for sale, door agnostic, seem to be lowered, on 20 in rims and with some sort of body kit and private plate! No idea what a guardian reader drives but I wouldn’t put them down for many of those except maybe the last one.
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
I did realise after posting I need a new thread, “I have van lay out questions.”
Going to need another thread to discuss those that buy a van* then keep the bikes on the outside…
*campers excluded
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
Some of it will be layout dependent but we have a folding bed that we often leave out all day as we are usually out doing stuff but if we do decide to slide it back into position to use it as a seat then it leaves a shelf that we roll our bedding up onto, out of the way. Opening either barn door is fine as it doesnt fall out. Would be a pain with a tailgate. Van is always packed with lots of stuff at the back when we go anywhere so important for us. Brother has a tailgate and either needs 4 pairs of hands as he lifts the tailgate to catch all the kids stuff or simply lets it fall on the grass and picks it up.
*campers excluded
No exclusions.
The thing about being able to pack the back space with barn doors, what do you do with a tail gate. I have this problem in a car- the top of the last bit of the boot is hard to pack as it tends to fall out. Imagine even harder with a taller space.
Pack properly?
A van is a big, essentially cubic, space. I used stacking boxes, so floor to ceiling with no issues, and nothing falling out. It's not like an estate car with all roundy styled corners and stuff.
Though, FWIW, we got stuff for a 8 day/7 night MTB camping trip for 6 in the van and STILL had plenty of space. (That included 2 or 3 nights of camping in a field next to a lake, with no facilities at all...)
Have seen people using luggage nets as well.
Not sure about the guardian readership – a high proportion of those for sale, door agnostic, seem to be lowered, on 20 in rims and with some sort of body kit and private plate!
Yeah, i lowered mine, and put alloys on it (Not 20" though! Replaced the battered and not actually round steelies that were on it before!) It did look like it was on stilts before lowering though, could probably have got my head between tyre and wheelarch when unladen, a 50/65mm drop meant that the wheels were centred in the arches and the towbar was at a reasonable height! No body kit, no private plate, no engine "tune" to increase emissions and allegedly improve power...
Bungee nets ftw. Make use of the tie-down loops in the floor and the walls, or just add your own.
Had load of vans over the years, all Tailgate. My current van has barn doors. I’ve seen the light, barn doors for me in the future.
Tailgate on my T6.
The biggest downside is that I can't reverse into a space and get into the boot if there's a wall or post behind. It is an annoyance but isn't a problem
The huge upside is being able to use it as a shelter, and it's instant. Not 20 seconds of faffing to put a tarp up and then dealing with something wet. Sometimes it's only used for a 1-3 minutes while sorting stuff out at the end of a walk or ride.
There's no perfect solution, but I specifically looked for a tailgate rather than barn doors. I haven't needed a forklift assisted load so that has yet to be a problem for me
Always had barn doors.
Rain is just as often sideways as it is coming down. You can get a cover that goes between the doors which means it's protected on all sides.
Tailgate would be really annoying s we often have a trailer on (barn doors open fine as long as you park vaguely straight.
Also our doors are 270 degrees so fold back against the van if you want them completely out of the way.
Finally, tailgates look really vulnerable if you need them open into an area where people are driving, you spin round and stand on the pavement/verge and it's at forehead height!
Sorry, edited, way behind on the thread!
As previously billed in my what sort of doors thread but now general questions as that thread was closed.. I have some layout questions..
Seating
Most layouts have a second row of seats at the back. I can see why this when the van is camping mode but with kids, having them closer in transit where the passenger can pass stuff to them is useful. Also feels better when using it as a school run vehicle. Are there any options with the seats closer together in transport mode but then still have a living space when camping.
Also if loading the van with a lot of stuff it would end up being piled in front of the passengers such that they have to Wade through it to get in and out.
Beds
Loads seem to have rock and roll bed. is this because it is the best – RIB looks like it would be better at not having an undulating profile. I’ve also seen some articles saying that rib is bolted to the chassis and so safer but not sure why they would be attached any differently.
Cooking
in a small van do you cook inside it much rather than say under the tailgate?
Sink
This feels like it would be handy..
Extra space
Awning does this need to be drive away? so that you can leave it in situ when wanting go somewhere that isn’t packing everything up and going on.
LWB or SWB
There aren’t as many lwb vans as swb for sale. Why’s this? I was thinking that the bigger the better..
What other layout questions should I be thinking about?
Cooking
in a small van do you cook inside it much rather than say under the tailgate?
Where are you planning on using it?
I built my old van so that I could cook either inside or out with a pull out kitchen.
A mate built his so he stood under the tailgate. Looked brilliant, but even in the summer months he said it was a ball ache and ended up ripping it out.
LWB or SWB
LWB.... It's only 40cm but that makes a massive difference inside. It also gives you ~180cm behind the factory second row of seats.... Enough space for a bed.
I was quite pleased with how I built my old van (I'll sketch it out quick, not got any pictures here with me), but still ended up selling it and buying something much bigger.
Cooking: I did a lot of camping/car camping before, and I didn't think I'd ever want to cook inside a van, I had a whole list of reasons why not, and I only really fitted a hob so that it mer the criteria of a camper for speed limits. But... it's awesome. Being able to rock up and get started cooking immediately without the faff of setting up a stove is awesome. Way more pleasant to just pop the kettle on in the morning without having to run in and out of the van, too.
Sink: Yes, useful. Personally not essential, but it does make everything more pleasant.
Awning: Depends on what you want, really. I've got a roll out one (van came with it). Never really used it. I don't really get the point of drive away awnings.
Lwb/swb: I really wanted a lwb for the extra space, but ended up with a swb (I was on a bit of a tight timeline). I'm not too sorry about that, in a way it feels a little easier to live with for manoeuvrability. If I did it again, I'd be looking for a high top ahead of a lwb.
[Edit] There's only two of us, though. If with kids or whatever, then... probably a bigger van than a t6 in any length [/Edit]
Built ours last summer, lwb T6.1 with tailgate.
Had slimline poptop so it still goes in car parks, rear-seat bed on sliding rails so can be pushed back or up to front ones to suit load/trip. Deliberately chose no internal cooking and water as so much simpler and don't really want cooking smells/oils splashs etc where we sleep.
One other detail, had the usual sink type unit but it then runs lower towards the rear so its level with bed once it's dropped and gives a full width of van spread to sleep on "downstairs "
We only ever cook inside the van.
We have a small sink - handy for washing up etc. Also a 3-way fridge, 2-ring cooker and grill.
LWB doesn't restrict parking but does actually offer quite a bit more space.
Awning - we have a drive-away but only take/use it if we're going to be in one place for a few days.
Layout - can't really help much as ours doesn't have rear passenger seats. However, the main seat in ours is fitted longitudinally behind the drivers seat and pulls out into a bed. With the passenger (double) seat rotating, that gives an L-shaped living area and we prefer having a view out of the side of the van (even better with the side door open). It also means I have a decent length of floor, when the bed isn't out, for carrying longer things like bikes.
Just to complicate things, have you seen how many high spec, super plush cars you can buy for the price of a crappy van? And they all have tailgates for cowering from the rain.
I've been driving vans for 20 years and I'm bowing out. Current prices are just obscene.
Seating/Beds
I've a Smart Beds Evolution 2 which will slide right to the rear or up close-ish behind the front ones. Speccing again I'd go for the longest rails they make which would mean the bed could slide even further forward for additional bike stowage as even with a LWB the bed when in seat mode takes up a lot of length.
Cooking/Sink
I've just got a Boxio and am building a simple storage unit that'll fit behind the driver seat to hold that and other Euro Crates and will also box in the obligatory Chinese Diesel Heater, and have a drawer/table to for a stove on if I do that inside. TBH though I prefer to use the stove outside.
Going through this in planning phase at the moment. Need to seat upto 6 (4 kids), but usually 5. Probably only need to sleep 1 or 2.
Thinking of a rib bed on rails, bikes sideways front wheel off when using it to sleep in, seats forwards and kids bikes in normally when using it as a day van. Probably not enough width for a kitchen and 3 seats in the back. Possibly add a pop-top later.
Probably not enough width for a kitchen and 3 seats in the back.
There's a fair few outfits doing nice removable kitchen units that could be worth looking at, and IMO permanently giving up space for a seldom used kitchen unit in a camper van smaller than a crafter/sprinter and the like is quite a sacrifice.
You can get a bed on rails, we were thinking about that. But on the other hand, how old is your kid? How long do you need to be passing stuff back to them? If we'd got the van a couple of years ago we'd have gone rail, but she's a little more capable now so we've bought an organiser thing that sits next to her with all her crap in and she can sort herself out!
We have a rib bed, it does sit a little further forward than a r+r. Despite what I said above, I don't think we'd like her to be any further back than she is, might feel a bit meh!
Richard I think you’ve described perfectly what I was trying to do a bit ‘meh’ to have passengers so far back.
We don’t use the big car much so it would be that second car so does need to be semi practical which puts a large van out.
@ped Those removable kitchen units- what does that mean for classification as a camper and so speed limits etc. plus are they practical/light enough to remove / install when needed.
Prices - agree are not good. Id like a relatively low mileage 6.1 auto lwb but pricing might prohibit this. I still can’t get my head around high mileage vans being fitted with brand new conversions!
@scruffythefirst Sounds like your requirements are similar to mine: I have a l2h2 Movano, 3 seats up front, 3 in the back - for all the teenagers. Bikes fit behind the rear seats with the front wheel off, rear wheel slotted between the seats with longer bikes. Bed platform above the bike store, rear seats lean back and platform folds out over them to sleep 2 on a full length double. Bikes would fit in even easier except I have a unit in front of the rear seats with microwave, fridge and other bits - it’s an ex welfare van. Couldn’t figure out an off the peg more affordable option for seating 6 when I looked last summer.
Those removable kitchen units- what does that mean for classification as a camper and so speed limits etc. plus are they practical/light enough to remove / install when needed.
Ah, DVLA they say that "This equipment must be rigidly fixed to the living compartment;" but I'm unsure if rigidly is the same as permanently.
It's the 'must have two windows on at least one side thin'g that I don't get with having a van reclassified. I want the rear quarters left solid and not glazed so I think I'm stuck being a light goods vehicle. And if they ever think I'm meeting the "Motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle" criteria they can do one. I'd never considered why so many vans have awful graphics down the side until reading that.
L2h2 feels like it’s getting a bit less practical for the school run when needed, on the flip side giving more space and seems much cheaper than a t6 with some change for a car!
Did you contract or Diy the conversion @stwhannah
The Movano is my only vehicle, I generally try not to drive unless I really have to, but it’s rare I’ve had any trouble getting parked etc.
It came with the welfare conversion done, we took out the bits we didn’t need (it had a toilet and drying room in the back) and then my husband did the conversion (I was very little help, with a dislocated shoulder last summer!). It’s a van not a camper, insurance company has it logged as a modified van.
I've got a T6 Caravelle that I'm gradually adding (fully removable) bike storage, bed, and kitchen pod with fridge, sink with fresh and grey water containers, and enough worktop for a 2 ring cadac portable gas stove.
Cooking - inside. Opening sliding door windows help with this, you can get midge screens for them too. I wouldn't want to be cooking under the tailgate when it's pishing it down as it often does in the UK.
Sink - very handy, you'd need to store a water container otherwise and faff around with it when you just want to fill the kettle up in the morning.
Extra space - I've got a wind out awning which I'll use most of the time on campsites. If I'm staying somewhere for a few days though I'll get a drive away awning. Not only does it mean extra space for seating, working on bikes, cooking outdoors when it's raining, it 'saves' your spot if you need to go and drive somewhere.
LWB or SWB - I only had the choice for SWB but I would have gone for a LWB if I could.
Mine is my only car so gets used the same as my previous STW favourite, the Skoda Superb, did. Once you get used to sitting further forward and it seeming like there's about 40ft of car behind you, it's actually easier to drive than a car.
My layout is very specific to me; 4x seats (Inc driver) as a daily car, convertible into a single bed. Storage for 2x long MTB with the front wheels off. Kitchen with fridge, cooking, sink. I've also a got a swivel front passenger seat and I'll have separate water storage for the power wash for the bikes. All inside the van with no pop top. It'll only be for one person as it is, but if I added a pop top it'd be good for 2 people, 2 bikes, full comfort - only missing a toilet and shower.
I've got a basic leisure battery setup at the moment, the VW optional extra, with an excellent eberspacher diesel heater, I'll be upgrading the electrics too over the course of this year with a lithium battery and solar, which should let me go from the current 1-2 days without driving or hookup to a week or more with ease.
There's some in my thread here
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-ultimate-mtb-van-caravelle-build/
But here's a couple of the bike storage:
I'm working on the kitchen pod at the minute, so that's a bit away from being completed:
I've gone through a couple of designs with the bed but have come up with a decent solution which I'm happy with - just need to order the parts for it (aluminium profile and some sliders). And I'm also going to build up the right side of the bikes with extra storage, up to the window line as I'll be using window bags that clip into the window frame and black then out and provide a load of storage.
I'd advise getting over onto the T6 forum, just lock your wallet away before you do! 🤣
I've got a much bigger thread on there on my van.
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/tallpauls-caravelle-mtb-wagon.43548/
Oh and tailgate - but only because that's the only option I had!
Barn doors do allow for more storage though, you can hang bags, or shoes etc off the doors which you can't do with a tailgate.
But also, if you have a tailgate you can install some LED lights in it so that when you come back from a night ride, you've got perfect light above you when putting the bikes away (in the dry, under the tailgate 😉).
@ta11pau1 that looks amazing.....dont suppose you fancy building me a unit to house the fridge in my T4?!?
Haha, thanks - and no thanks! 🤣
It took me a month to do the bike drawer, and I've been working on the kitchen pod since the 13th Jan - I'm hoping to have assembly finished on that in the next 2 or 3 weeks, I only get chance to work on it at the weekends.
Should have the van completed in time for spring!
barndoors please.
You can open one door, and pack accordingly.
Opening the tail gate? hope you brought a map and snacks for the trek away from the van to let the thing open.
Then it opens and dings on a low hanging branch,
then you shelter under it in the rain, but find when you come to close it the numberplate well is full of water, so you now in your nice dry clean clothes, get a second, surprise, dirty shower.
And if the gas strut fails, or goes weak, good luck lifting the thing up!
