OK so like an idiot I got my car MOT'd yesterday instead of taking the 6 months but hey, it would need doing at some point and needless to say the car failed spectacularly.
Car is an Auid A6 V6 3.0 diesel and with 132k on the clock
Failed on emissions and smokey exhaust - fair enough and rightly a fail, no issues there. Quick google search suggests either a coolant leak related to the EGR or failed injector - could be around £1500 to fix.
Thing is, other than that the car is in very nice shape, drives well and feels as though it has plenty of life left in it. I also couldn't get anything nearly as nice for the same money so do I repair? My thoughts are =< £1500 to get it done, any more and I should start shopping.
At least with it failing now I don't need a car at the moment so have time to get it sorted one way or the other...
Whos doing the work.
Those are two very different issues.
Do not go in and ask them to do X or y you want them to fix the symptom not what you perceive the issue.
Read the codes - see if anything showing (probably won't show on a generic reader)
If it was me cause I'm cheap I'd do a spill rail test. - YouTube it. That'll tell you if the injectors are doing the right things. (but doesn't say the injectors are great but it's cheap great indicator)
There's also potential that you have both issues.
It could also be something much less.
But first point is the main point. Let the garage diagnose if they are doing it. If it's you iirc the egr cooler can usually be identified by a visual. -check the owners forums for that one- not had a diesel vag car.
Re injectors - I got Bosch refurbs from a local injector specialist (airyhall motors for Aberdeen people) 125+vat for my engine. -new replacements were 250 plus vat
Aren't you trying to make the decision too early in the evaluation process?
Assuming you're getting a garage to do the work, ask them to fault find the issue initially, *then* it's time make a decision
Look on the positive side - it might be something simpler/cheaper than you imagine.
If it is the £1500 bill time, then I'd probably concur with your decision. (Although many other factors apply, including your current levels of disposable income, the age / value of the car, or whether you quite fancy a new motor ;))
EDIT - Trail Rat beat me to it 🙂
I guess it’s down to do you really like the car.
What’s it’s re sale value against getting a different car.
How much trouble would buying into an unknown car cost you?
If everything else runs and works fine I’d fix it, pity you can’t give it an Italian de coke with the current rules in place.
I wouldn't unless Everything else was perfect. Honest perfect though not "i like this car let me keep it"
What maintenance does it require in the next year?
Timing? Clutch? Brakes suspension? How are the wheel arches?
If you have already done these things recently then maybe its worth it. What's the value of the car with 12month mot?
Or to put it another way will 1500 get you to the next MOT? If it fails the next MOT in a years time will you be happy spending another chunk?
A new old car is a gamble aswell ofcourse.
Get it fixed if you like it
Yes fix it. Cars always cost money. Either you are fixing old ones or paying through the nose for new ones. Remember that a car isn't a single item that is either reliable or not. It's a collection of individual parts. So if you get it fixed, you'll have an old car with brand new injectors. If you get rid and buy another you'll have s cheap old car most likely with old injectors and who knows what else wrong with it, and be no better off. And it won't be such a nice motor!
@joshvegas - as it happens the bodywork is excellent for the age (and aluminium), tyres are good, I had the brakes done recently and it's a timing chain. Tyres and brakes are consumables regardles of age in any event. It really is a good runner. I don't notice the smoke when it's running - it's not billowing and MPG is around the right mark. One shock is an advisory and the ARB needs a new bush.
And thanks everyone. yes I am going to try and get it to a decent indy Audi specialist I know and just tell them what it's failed and let them work it out from there. We'll see...
In that case wait until the garage gives you a quote 🙂
Got the emissions sheet?
Post it up lets see what the values are
the
If its coolant leak to the egr cooler then surely the first thing to do id monitor or check the coolant level.
Is it possible to disconnect the coolant lines from the egr. Unlesd you are doing long motorway runs it wont harm the egr. You will have to loop it with something like 15mm copper pipe
See if the smoke clears
Howevet, smoke could be alot of othet things and most of them spendy
Might be worth ebaying it as is rather than look at head gaskets, vlave stem seals, piston rings etc are the injectors coded to the ecu on that model? As that will bump up the repair cost.
If it's any help - and it may not be - I had a similar with my ancient E-Class Mercedes which at the time had about 175k miles on it. Turned out that the injectors themselves were OK but that the sealing around them was a bit knackered, which I think let in miniscule amounts of air ...... in any event, it produced a skip-load of smoke and failed an MOT. Cost about £150 for the garage to sort the 2 leaking injector seals, and that was almost all driven by time as they're tricky to get out.
As others have said, refurbishing injectors is way cheaper than buying new ones.
Good luck with it - I'm firmly of the view that if the car still does what you want and you can be confident that you're not dropping hundreds of pounds every few months then fix it and keep it.
If it was mine i’d do the EGR and the injectors but my car has a rolling program of replacing components before they have reached the end of their life and i spanner my own so don’t have labour costs.
Depends on the emission fail, but this can fix them some times:
£1500 is about 2.5 monthly pcp payments of a new one.
We had this decision when our 2008 Kuga lunched its gearbox. That plus DMF and clutch at 80,000 miles was £2600. Yet, another Haldex 4wd for carting bikes and kids gear about in muddy fields would be more, and we couldn’t have sold ours for more than scrap. And we care less about scratching this one...
Haha yes Marco the cure for overly optimistic values that were never designed to be tested to after more than 20miles on the clock on old cars.-remove the printed value and it reverts to the age related default value
Id thrash it in no higher than third for quite some time before taking it for the test.
OK, from a sunk carbon perspective older cars have their plus points but don’t forget that your smokey exhaust is horrible and contributes to crappy air quality for everyone.
Don’t just try to fiddle the stats. Sort it or bin it.
@dannybgoode what age is the audi? personally 132k seems quite low mileage, have a 15 year old seat leon thats just hit 180k, goes well. good on fuel, & truthfully i doubt i could replace it for what its worth
@Clover - no intention of fiddling it. Want to get it sorted properly
@onewilddiesel - 2006 and a really nice runner. Don't see any reason for skipping it unless it is going to cost me an arm and a leg
Indy Audi specialist and get it fixed imo.
Hiya, I work for a vehicle repairer, I’m a massive advocate for the “better the devil you know” mantra! We’ve have customers go away and scrap a car when given a big estimate, only to replace their car with something equally as old and have a similar bill 6 months down the line. They end up paying double in the end.
Zoo
Was it entered smoke and what was the value?
1) Get a quote. Work out the value of the car. If x is greater than y then torch it for the insurance sell it. If you didn't already own a car, would you pay £1500 quid to buy it now?
2) Is this a one-off payment or is it likely to cost you another £1500 next year? Anything else looking a bit shaky? Because:
£1500 is about 2.5 monthly pcp payments of a new one.
... it's also 7 months lease from brand new on the Octavia I returned last year.
£1500 / year for a 14-year old that's done £130k+ versus £2500 / year for a brand spanker with full warranty ain't bangernomics to my mind. (I'm not entirely sure that running a 3L V6 is bangernomics either, if you want to save brass then sell it and get a Fiesta). This is exactly the argument that drove me to leasing in the first place.
Wise words zoo200 and very true in many circumstances. As a long term advocate of bangernomics it's a very fine line, coupled with luck, which determines whether you have made the right choice but a car which is 'known' has loads of +++ points.
I've only really lost out with my current car, BMW530 msport estate and I could kick myself as I had doubts when I bought it but heart overruled head and it's been a pain in the arse for 20 months. I'll get current fault repaired and then it'll be gone mainly because my missus wont get in it after a particularly bad experience on a main road where all power went and doors locked with 2 dogs and a full holiday load in the back!
it’s also 7 months lease from brand new on the Octavia I returned last year.
£1500 / year for a 14-year old that’s done £130k+ versus £2500 / year for a brand spanker with full warranty ain’t bangernomics to my mind. (I’m not entirely sure that running a 3L V6 is bangernomics either, if you want to save brass then sell it and get a Fiesta). This is exactly the argument that drove me to leasing in the first place
Was there no deposit?
My van failed on emissions. If was because it wasn't getting used enough and not being throttled.
The mechanic ran some stuff through it. I think it was called revive.
It then sailed through and had lower emmisions than when it was 3 years old. He charged me £35. It's just gone through its mot in March and sailed through.
I'd try this before you try anything else. I think mobile mechanics will come to your house and do this on your drive.
£1500 / year for a 14-year old that’s done £130k+ versus £2500 / year for a brand spanker with full warranty
That's man math justification for your car assumes 1500 every year. Next year might be 20 quid.
Your Octavia will be 2500 quid till eternity ...
You didn't sell that well to me anyway
if you want to save brass then sell it and get a Fiesta
I have a nice fiesta to sell if you want a slightly newer, much lower mileage banger instead.
That’s man math justification for your car assumes 1500 every year. Next year might be 20 quid.
I have had this a few times mist notably with a graduate who asked me why i had a shit car rather than some dort of finance deal. Because it only cost him x a months. It was an aygo i had an estate regularly filled with shite for the dump.
He couldn't get his head round the fact that you Don't know how much a car costs you until you no longer have it.
He then decided he couldn't afford it and it wasn't worth what he thought it was yo sell. I helpfully pointed out he lost more (ignoring interest) than my cost to buy and run for three years.
He rides a bike to work now.
I'd take it to an independent Audi specialist and give them the numbers sheet and ask for a proper estimate. bangernomics works best when you have as much information at your disposal to make a choice. if the bill does come out at around or less than a 1000 I'd probably fix it but it all depends on whether you really need a 3L V6 for work family use etc. 2K repair would be time to swap but our car isn't used much at all.
If it’s a coolant leak on the egr then you can diagnose yourself - it will either be spewing clouds of white smoke out of the back or leaving puddles of coolant under the car but either way you’ll be losing coolant and an egr replacement on a new A6 is more like £800 to fix not £1500 as my brother had to do it a few years ago.
Maybe also try running one of those injector cleaner fuel additives for a bit. If injector more likely to be coming or a seal issue as mentioned before rather than failing injector.
Doesn’t sound like you should be giving up on it yet to me. As said before, better the devil you know.
@duncancallum - the average smoke reading was 2.02 and the max allowed is 1.3.
All pretty meaningless to me. NOX and CO2 I understand but not the smoke readings.
Smoke is soot...unburned fuel so overfuelling - black visible smoke from the exhaust. Could be dirty injectors not atomising properly, the system coked up somewhere, or an air leak starving combustion of air.
EGR's combat Nox so unlikely to be EGR, especially if you're not seeing coolant loss or plumes of white smoke. White smoke is not unburned fuel so wont affect the smoke reading in the emissions test.
@wobbliscott. She did go through a phase of chucking out white smoke but not any more.
Audi specialist is closed but I know a good mobile mechanic so he’s coming out Weds and we’ll start with a service and engine flush and he’ll take it from there.
I'd start with a change of filters, wang some forte or Redex in on half a tank and book it in for a test give it some pain on the way in dont let it sit out side idling for the tests.
I'd also read the values on Vagcom for the air flow
I agree, get the fault codes read and go from there with a proper quote. I have a similar car with similar engine, similar mileage.
Swirl flaps are a common problem which can lead to loads of smoke. I know from experience. Usually around 60-80k miles from what I remember.
There are swirl flap repair kits available so you may find that they have been repaired once and need doing again? (my experience)
Complete speculation by a non mechanic - I may be completely wrong of course - diagnosis of the issue is the key.
By the way - the term 'bangernomics' doesn't mean simply running an old car. It means buying cars with long ish MOTs for peanuts on the assumption that you will just scrap it if it fails or breaks down and get another one.
Result of emissions test were a fail on smoke so that is a good place to start and usually high smoke is not a symptom of an EGR valve problem...though could be the case there is a problem with that too.
When the EGR valve went on my T5 it bellowed out white smoke constantly...massive plumes of the stuff behind the vehicle. The coolant loss wasn't great a small amount over a couple of days, so not like the engine us sucking the coolant system dry like it can with a HG failure. Luckily my van was still in warranty so was sorted, but my Bro's A6 (can't remember the year but probably around 2012 vintage on the 2.0ltr TDI engine) failed outside of warranty and it cost him about £600 - £800 or so to fix at dealer prices (can't remember exact price).
By all means check fault codes...but they're not really fault codes...they don't tell you what the fault is, they just tell you what is not working. It could be the component is not working because it's faulty, but can also not be working because it's getting duff inputs form another sensor elsewhere in the engine. So it might trigger an injector fault, but the injector could be fine it could be the signal to the injector that is duff so the cause is downstream. Be careful with fault cones...you can rack up alot of costs scatter gunning problems. You can't been good old fashioned troubleshooting.
black smoke can be a blocked or restricted EGR as much as anything else.
They have many failure modes.
quoted from the mot manual
"or vehicles first used before 1 July 2008, the smoke limit is:
2.5m-1 for a non-turbocharged engine
3.0m-1 for a turbocharged engine
the level specified on the manufacturer’s plate if lower
"
i would be looking for the manufactures plate & doing away with it, which will then bring you emmision test level up to 3.0,
I had thought of doing that but the fail doc shows 1.3 as does the plate so would have to take it somewhere else I guess. It needs a service anyway so will at least do that and decide from there.
There’s a couple of other bits that need doing as well (ARB bush and headlight) so will get those tended to as well before doing anything more.
FYI that was a recent change and many cars had unrealistic numbers printed there even when they were new.... not that VAG are renound for that sort of thing oh no.
Do you use the cheap super market fuel?