[Closed] Ban tackling in schools?

Dude the stopped playing rugby completely at my school, after some lad broke his collar bone.. This was back in the mid 80's!

They didn't when one guy broke his neck at mine...

Captain ditto

hockey used to scare me a lot more as a player, especially mixed hockey.

The girls were brutal to play against.

The girls were brutal to play against.

You've met Mrs Sandwich on the field of play then? You have my sympathies, any scars?

Getting hit with an almost supersonic hockey ball was far more painful than being dumped on the deck and then trodden on by a 15 stone prop.

Would it really change anything? When I was at school the only ones who got tackled were the keen ones who were built for it; the rest of us were cowering in the distant wings or making sure that we ran fast enough that it looked like we were trying but not so fast as to actually get the ball...

It's not about how much it hurts but life changing injuries that do happen in school rugby. Touch rugby is still a decent game and far more inclusive, in fact it is frequently played mixed. School sports seem to almost be designed to put a section of the population off sport for life. I bet a lot people on here got into cycling after not really getting on with traditional school sports.

I heard this on the radio this morning - sounds like a knee jerk reaction which will be more dangerous in the long term. Imagine a field full of 18 year olds, who have never been allowed (and therefore never taught correctly) suddenly being able to tackle. The whole lot would be off to A&E within minutes...

Tricky one this, if kids are taught to tackle properly then you minimise the risk. There is always going to be a risk in any sport kids do, BMX, skateboarding, horse riding, motox etc tec

Ah mixed hockey, the sheer violence meted out by the girls was a sight to behold, I loved watching it from my position all padded up in goal 😆

The ex used to play Bandy in Sweden, they had a game of girls against boys and the ref told the girls that they could do what they like he wouldnt call any fouls. Apparently resentment of that game still runs high with some of the men of Varmland 😆

My uncle got into rugby coaching with his lad about 10 years ago. He would have learnt to tackle in the 60s/70s in the 90s he taught me. We were chatting a few years back as to how different it was now with lots of emphasis put on techniques and not hurting people rather than just flooring them. Perhaps a ban in schools is right but leave it to the rugby clubs for this that want to learn properly.

My kids both started at the local Rugby club in November and since then all I've read is horror stories such as this.

The youngest (6) plays tag, and the eldest (9) plays contact in the under 10's. The change in them has been great, as they've really come out of their shells since starting, and the game doesn't look much worse than football did when I was st school in the 80's and 90's

However, I keep getting serious doubts about letting them continue after reading articles like this.

Prof Allyson Pollock

Well there's a surprise. Not.

Bee in her bonnet, every year she pumps out something to the willing media.

All she will end up doing is undoing the good work of those getting rugby into more state schools. Public schools will continue to ignore her.

Imagine a field full of 18 year olds, who have never been allowed (and therefore never taught correctly) suddenly being able to tackle.

Yes, that sounds plausible 🙄 it's like all training and teaching about the full contact game wouldn't be taught to them...

The statistics on injuries per person hour played of Rugby in schools is frightening.

We ask for permissions, extra risk assessments, hold parent meetings and expect uber trained staff under annual inspections for a week's outdoor learning residential - yet Rugby weekly seriously injures children at a rate that would close an outdoor centre, lead to national enquiries and a raising of the bar for staff competencies and hardly anyone makes an issue of it.

I am massively pro risk and challenge with our young people, and support playing rugby in our schools. But we do need to question the injury rate.

My kids both started at the local Rugby club in November and since then all I've read is horror stories such as this.

The youngest (6) plays tag, and the eldest (9) plays contact in the under 10's. The change in them has been great, as they've really come out of their shells since starting, and the game doesn't look much worse than football did when I was st school in the 80's and 90's

However, I keep getting serious doubts about letting them continue after reading articles like this.

My eldest is playing tag and they have just started to learn how to tackle in training.

I'd argue with more and more school sport getting the chop (especially those with contact) it's even more important that they (boys especially) do something like Rugby, Judo etc outside of school.

What stoner said. IIRC there's an agenda there - her son picked up a series of injuries, including broken bones and/or ligament damage, but not in any way life changing

Pretty boring how the same letter seems to get trotted out around every 6N, RWC etc.

her son picked up a series of injuries, including broken bones and/or ligament damage, but not in any way life changing

After which she lead studies on how many of those same kids were being injured, and as MOAO suggests the injury rate at just the few schools that were studied was pretty severe.

I coach junior rugby, and so far this season (the U9s first season of contact at tackle), a squad of 25, playing an hour every sunday, so in over 500 man-hours of rugby have amassed the sum total of injuries: one sprained thumb.

[i]The statistics on injuries per person hour played of Rugby in schools is frightening.[/i]

Sauce?

A bit of a rag bag list of signatories, many of them seem to come from countries where rugby is a very minor sport.

One thing we could do is adopt the NZ practice of organising teams by weight rather than age. Less injuries caused by size mismatches, and some likely benefits of more enjoyment for longer by more players and more quality players coming out of school.

Don't know what the disadvantages are, other than organisational.

God sons have both started playing contact rugby this last year, from a background of hatingvteam sports. They both love it, they are properly coached and watched. Their dad and another mate of mine are now doing their coaching awards. Best thing that's happened for any of them.

My lads school play mixed touch rugby at year 7, in year 8 it's been more handling skills, tackling is left for those that want to take it seriously on the school team that train after school. Provided the teachers are trained, I have no problem with tackling in schools.

I played school rugby in the 80s, as others have said, hockey was much scarier and had more injuries.

@ihn - ROSPA, I will get screen grab and source when at work in a moment.

When I was at school, our main PE teacher just let us get on with it (rugby), with little in the way of coaching. However, they then had a teacher exchange program and an Aussie guy came over: he had us playing touch rugby, which was good for hand skills, as well as contact rugby, but only after he taught us how to tackle properly in controlled conditions.

There is room for both imo.

I believe touch rugby is widely played in the southern hemisphere, so it clearly has a role to play, although not at the exclusion of everything else.

It's all about quality coaching. I woukd seriously question the coaching at schools where there are high injury counts. In ten years of coaching the most severe injury one of my players received was a bloody (not broken) nose due to foul play from an opponent. The irb rugby ready "test" IMHO is not a sufficient minimal coaching qualification.

Id prefer to see the NZ system. As it is we try and manage squads as best as we can within the age-grade limitations set my RFU to cluster development/size levels.

This* is on my desk in front of me now, and this saturday I have an Age Grade Rugby briefing at the local RFU.

* image not uploading, blasted resolving host issues. will post later

We played 5ish aside full contact league type rules across pitch to improve handling and tackling. Reduces risk from scrums and ruck/maul. With only team training playing the full game.

I do wonder more about concussion than serious breaks for kids though, which is just as much a problem in league

The size thing is a good idea, do people think there could be lightweight and heavyweight rugby in the future?

Should be compulsory in schools. The differences in size of kids going through puberty can be massive. I know the biggest kids in my year at school were probably going on twice my weight and 20% taller. And i wasn't the smallest in my year either. Having some 6 foot/15 stone semi-bearded 14 or 15 year old tackling an 8 stone kid is asking for trouble.

There's a serious issue to be addressed regarding concussion at all levels of rugby [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35636594 ]Ulster University [/url]
I think there's no need to ban tackling but there's a need to get more information and to build better safeguards around school age rugby.

Having some 6 foot/15 stone semi-bearded 14 or 15 year

Weight limit rugby only applies up the the U13 level in NZ.

Take the Scottish approach and extend the ban all the way up to the national team 😉

No... absolutely mental

That woman on the radio this morning sounded completely hysterical

It's a choice thing
There's no way I would engage with rugby or hockey at school cos they were games for sado-masochistic freaks and wierdos

What outlet will those lumpen nutters have for their hormone fuelled aggression if we ban idiot sports?

(and it would probably be pretty bad for our international teams further down the line)

I was 6ft 3 by the time I was 13 and 14st by 15. But rugby was not compulsory at my school other than a few weeks taster of rugby, football and hockey before choosing.

Pathetic, just teach it properly. I don't remember a single injury happening during my years at school playing rugby. However, football had had quite a few with kids with sprained and broken ankles, damaged knees and broken wrists.

I've a nephew (10) whose just started both Football and Rugby at his school. They've a cut off so the under 10's don't do anything other than run around a field or Tennis. So the lads into Footy more than Rugby because, his words, "Rugby just seems to be more about hurting each other than a game" Whilst to some degree I sympathise it seems a bit of a shame that he'll be loosing out. On the other hand he's not very good at football so that'll end soon I guess.

What we need is more Terry Tate...whoooo he comes the pain train!!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

It's a long time since i played but it does seem to me that the senior game now is less about tackling, and more about 'contact'. Huge players hitting each other repeatedly with forces that simply weren't seen 'back in the day'. We have video reels of massive hits, get any player onto a TV sports program and they almost always produce a tackle bag and measure how hard they can hit it, etc. And what happens in the big game transfers down, inevitably, to bodies that aren't as well trained and aren't as well conditioned.

The statistics do tend to speak for themselves.

Is it so wrong to therefore suggest that at school level, quite often in the hands of inexpert coaches, and trying to produce a lesson that caters for everyone from the guy who's going to go on and play for his country down to the speccy kid shivering on the wing, that avoiding collisions is a good thing.

The call is not to ban tackling for kids outright, let it be coached properly at club level and developed there and let kids at school enjoy the other technical aspects of the game as a gateway to whether they want to go on to play contact? With school - club partnerships so that there is a clear onward path, and maybe with an opt-out for 'elite' schools that can provide the necessary coaching so that the 'rugby' schools can continue the traditional elements of school competitions.

Here we go
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The statistics do tend to speak for themselves.

According to the RFU, it is getting safer and they have posted [url= http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/Governance/GameSupport/01/31/44/99/Rugby_Safe_bookletFINAL_English.pdf ]this[/url] on Twitter.

nickjb - Member

It's not about how much it hurts but life changing injuries that do happen in school rugby. Touch rugby is still a decent game and far more inclusive, in fact it is frequently played mixed. School sports seem to almost be designed to put a section of the population off sport for life. I bet a lot people on here got into cycling after not really getting on with traditional school sports.

That sums it up for me. School sports lessons put me off any form of sport for the next 15 years.

I'd say keep sports lessons to touch rugby. Keep full tackling for those on the school team or after school clubs.

We didn't play in our comp.
Not that common in central Manchester, but move a couple of miles out and every kid played, League and Union.

Played a bit in Cubs and Scouts, yearly local competitions, but raely played properly until college, by which time you've picked up potentially dangerous habits.

If I'd been taught the basics safely as a kid, I'd have definitely enjoyed it more and been a better player as an adult.

If you're going to teach it, teach it properly.

From [url= http://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/school-college-safety/managing-safety-schools-colleges.pdf ]here[/url]

[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1558/25316395432_fc9f4af624_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1558/25316395432_fc9f4af624_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Ez89mq ]Capture[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

*edit* - so that is 290,000 injuries for rugby, 20,000 for motorbiking, 7,000 for cycling, 4,000 for climbing and 500 by catching the bus.

I get the benefits of rugby - but that does not excuse the sport from examining what more can be done to reduce where possible the impact.

'As safe as necessary, not as safe as possible' to quote HSE and RoSPA.

It also fascinates me that parents today are so concerned over risks their children may (or may not!) face - and yet when it comes to particular sports, they 'get' risk vs benefit and the usual concerns are quashed.

How many parents allow their kids to play rugby, yet not walk to school for fear of abduction or car accident?

It is an interesting piece of psychology and social norming in my view.