MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Glad to see this is getting some traction in the mainstream media
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50579077
When carrier bags became a chargeable thing plastics experts warned of this but no one listened. The break even point where a plastic bag for life is 'better' than a traditional carrier bag is circa 150 uses (and that's with a conventional carrier bag being considered genuinely single use and not given a secondary function on another shopping trip or around the house). The average household is buying 54 bags for life a year. The sums don't work.
So well done us. The aspect that really annoys me most is that in terms of consumer buy in to doing their bit there is a fair chunk of society that now believes that their switch to bags for life is a reasonable contribution to our collective effort and they are doing all they should be expected to. We have used up all that good will being at best eco neutral to the status quo or arguably worse.
Yeah, I forget mine sometimes and end up buying another couple when I'm in the supermarket.
I've got about 15 at home, and 5 by the door to remind me to take a few with me 🤷♂️
And then it gets worse.
https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotton-totes-might-be-worse-than-plastic/
Never mind 70p, they should be a fiver. And it would be good if supermarkets would put out the boxes the goods come in for people to use to stick their shopping in, like they used too (wine boxes for example, are a perfect size and strong enough)
I dunno, my bag for life thinks she knows the answer to everything, and isn’t slow to tell me.
And it would be good if supermarkets would put out the boxes the goods come in for people to use to stick their shopping in, like they used too (wine boxes for example, are a perfect size and strong enough)
Morrison's near me still does this.
Never mind, at least some companies got to keep the money, it’s not all bad eh. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45355566
If they actually made the bags for life last 'for life' then maybe people would not buy quite so many. Half the problem was introducing the bags as lasting a lifetime by promising they would be replaced when they got damaged, if they just abandoned this middle step entirely and only sold the really solid reenforced bags I think that number would drop substantially.
I also don't think this has been a complete waste of time, I believe this shift to re-usable bags has completely changed the mindset of how people shop with a large majority bringing their own bags and a certain naivety to the fact that the bags for life were more damaging in the first place. Until today I was unaware that was the case and if now the 'correct' bags were introduced I suspect people would naturally switch over to them as and when the bags for life actually expired.
You mean people don't all use those proper hessian ones with a lovely twee little message advertising their favourite local organic grocery or stating just how vegan they are?
Well they should be doing!
Local Aldi will set aside and provide boxes. Banana boxes are particularly good for - if not groceries, then moving flats and 'stuff'.
You mean people don’t all use those proper hessian ones with a lovely little message advertising your favourite organic grocery or stating just how vegan they are?
As brant mentions above the virtue bags are even worserer.
We use Sainsbury delivery and they use about 10 of the cheap bags putting various random things in a bag, mainly vacuum packed stuff which doesn't need one. Completely unnecessary.
The answer, like everything, is to use less and for longer.
The War On Plastic had been consumerism-driven - people now have cupboards full of reusable water bottles that they don't reuse. Buy one good one and keep it forever!
The break even point where a plastic bag for life is ‘better’ than a traditional carrier bag is circa 150 uses (and that’s with a conventional carrier bag being considered genuinely single use and not given a secondary function on another shopping trip or around the house). The average household is buying 54 bags for life a year. The sums don’t work.
Not the whole story. It depends on what the bags for life are made of. Woven polypro ones apparently only need something like 10-15 uses before they break even, IIRC. We have some of these bought ten years ago still in use several times a week.
There was an article recently detailing the break-even point for the different types of bag. It varied hugely.
However, 150 uses isn't necessarily a lot. We have many bags that are a decade old and still in use, and will have covered 150 uses already and will cover many more.
What that article doesn't mention though is the saving in bags for a few items. When they introduced the 5p charge here in Wales they ALSO changed policy to not offer you a bag unless you asked for it. This means that loads of people buying a few* items simply walk out carrying those items, whereas before they'd have had a bag.
* or sometimes even more than a few, all stacked precariously in their arms
it literally says FOUR uses in the article you’ve linked to.The break even point where a plastic bag for life is ‘better’ than a traditional carrier bag is circa 150 uses
I’m calling bullshit. The Guardian and BBC articles are virtually identical. No-one’s researched this, it’s just a copy paste job. No sources or actual numbers are cited, we are just told what “campaigners” are saying. There is a link from that BBC article to another one (from this year) that says plastic bag use is down 90% and customers are only buying 10 per year.
Also the article is intentionally misleading. It’s actually about the waste generated by single-use packaging from branded goods (that’s the plastic mountain being referred to) yet the attention-grabbing headline implies it’s all down to bags.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
I so recognize this. I keep 10 bags for life in my car and use a backpack for corner shop trips so my use of single use bags in now zero for actually shopping.
BUT. I can honestly say before bags for life I never threw a single shopping bag away. They got used for other purposes and ended their lives as bin liners. Since bags for life came along we buy four different sets of bin liners when before we bought just black ones. Because we have to buy bespoke bin liners we've awapped to bigger bins so single use bags no longer fit. After all that we still get occasional single use bags - with deliveries etc. Because we've stopped using single use bags they accumulate - we must have 75 of the things. They get used at a rate of one every other month on school trips. One day they'll get thrown away.
On top of that SWMBO doesn't keep bags for life in her car so, guess what, most trips she buys new bags for life. (Sometimes because there's a cool design on sale!) SWMBO regards this as good for the environment because buying bags for life is good, yeah? They are too bulky to keep so they get thrown away in significant numbers.
I can honestly say we've gone from a situation were we never wasted a bag to a situation where we are profligate wasters of bags. ...and the bags we're wasting now are far more substantial than the bags we weren't wasting before.
...and don't even start me on that bloody program about stopping using single use plastic that caused SWMBO to go out and buy a ton of plastic alternatives which were theoretically not single use but we quite obviously going to be single use in practice.
It seems to me that a significant proportion of the population regard 'helping the environment' as a terrific excuse to increase their consumption.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
Use flimsy bags, but use them a lot and use them as bin liners when you've finished using them.
Or have deliveries, but they often come with single use bags whether you ask for them or not.
Or do what I do, buy bags for life, and actually keep them in the car and *use* them. Ditto a backpack for bike/foot trips to the corner shop. The problem isn't bags for life the problem is endlessly buying bags for life. (Of course, even if you do that you end up buying bin liners.)
compostable bags
Compostable bags that don't compost, can't be recycled and are a source of microplastics?
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
Half a dozen heavy duty woven polypro bags that you use until they die and then return for recycling? Even better: make more, smaller trips to the shop by bike or on foot rather than using a car.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
Proper bags for life which you use for years. eg I carry a bag for life I bought about 10 years ago in M&S, always have it on me in my courier bag. Few small holes in it now, but many years of life left in it...
Most people intend to reuse them but forget to take them, forget to take them out of the car. I know we do, pathetic isn't it. I heard a great idea on the radio this morning, the supermarkets should have collection points at the store entrances for people to donate the excess bags they bought and those people who've forgotten theirs can use them. Not everyone would donate but I reckon we've got 20 or 30 we don't need but feels wrong to chuck away. Easy for the supermarkets to trial, nothing lost if it doesn't work.
And it would be good if supermarkets would put out the boxes the goods come in for people to use to stick their shopping in, like they used too
Costco do this. They've never offered bags.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
Use a bag you already have... and if you have to buy a bag make it really expensive - the current 10p is laughable, should be at least £1.
I happily pay more for full fat coke too, cost is not an issue for consumers.
The average household is buying 54 bags for life a year
Christ on a bike - that's more than one a week. There are some seriously unorganised people out there. We have around 12 of them (some being used as boot bags / dog stuff bags).
I heard a great idea on the radio this morning, the supermarkets should have collection points at the store entrances for people to donate the excess bags they bought and those people who’ve forgotten theirs can use them.
A massive plus one from me. Would SWMBO want to use second hand bags though? I'm not sure. (Which is the problem, the people who think about this stuff are exactly the people who are already doing the right thing and minimizing their consumption.)
And it would be good if supermarkets would put out the boxes the goods come in for people to use to stick their shopping in, like they used too (wine boxes for example, are a perfect size and strong enough)
Morrison’s near me still does this.
Yup, and my local Sainsbury's and my local Asda. We don't have a local Tesco.
2 used for horse stuff
3 used for wood for the wood burner
1 has DIY tools in
2 in the boot for when we go shopping in the car
1 each used for swimming kit (Madame is so fond of hers she had me sew the handle back on when it broke)
Madame has a nice one as her school bag (this started as a joke and now half the staff use them too)
3 used for ski kit
5 in a box near the door for taking shopping on foot or stuffing things in when going out anywhere.
I've thrown 3 away IIRC when they were full of holes, thrown in the incineration bin, I hope that's right.
So I think they're great.
Plastic bags are a red herring, plastic production is set to increase year on year until the shit finally hits the fan. Most people could help by just buying LESS food, less food fewer bags needed. Bag crisis and obesity crisis in one hit.
It's the well meaning tinkerers who are ignorant of the facts and root of the problem getting us even deeper in the shit
I have about 10 and that get used and I never buy more.
They're incredibly useful for bike kit, I have a series of bags containing kit that I rumage through to make up the bag I'm taking on that trip, another one for wet kit straight in after the ride, another one for the floor when I change my shoes.
The War On Plastic had been consumerism-driven – people now have cupboards full of reusable water bottles that they don’t reuse. Buy one good one and keep it forever!
Or fish a used Coke bottle out of a bin and give it a wash!
DrJ
Or fish a used Coke bottle out of a bin and give it a wash!
I thought you're not supposed to do that? Something to do with chemicals being released.
54??
i sometimes get caught out so probably buy 2-3 a year but have one folded up at the bottom of my bag most of the time or a tote bag, most people have tote bags as you get inundated with them if you go to any events.
those people who just keep buying them obviously don't care about waste or the environment.
We use Eroski bags (Basque supermarket) as they are more like a slightly smaller Ikea bag. Couple in the back of the car and a couple under the stairs. Great for bike kit too.
I thought you’re not supposed to do that? Something to do with chemicals being released.
Bloody hell - you can't win !! 🙁
https://www.thoughtco.com/reusing-plastic-bottles-serious-health-hazards-1204028
convert
The break even point where a plastic bag for life is ‘better’ than a traditional carrier bag is circa 150 uses
From the information I've seen, I don't think that's correct. I think it is 150 uses for the organic cotton tote bags...
There's a similar article on the BBC page that mentions 4 uses for bag for life to be as eco-friendly as the thin traditional ones.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50579077 <
I keep about 4 bags in my work messenger back & then if I need to do a shop on the way home, I have bags available. We also generally keep a few in the cars - although this is easier in one as it has little storage nets on either side of the boot.
The other car doesn't and the bags end up flying around all over the place, then get taken out.
I think the bags should be a lot more expensive - at least £1 per bag, probably more.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
I use Waitrose where they bring the food in crates which I carry into kitchen and unload and give them the crate back
The supermarkets need to be forced to come up with solutions rather than just charging the consumer.
Whether that is paper sacks, compostable bags etc,. it needs government to impose what they have to do. For example, no shops can give or sell plastic bags by end of 2020, if they are found doing so it is a £100,000 fine - easy isn't it.
The average household is buying 54 bags for life a year.
I call balls on that.
I’ve got about 15 at home, and 5 by the door
Not whoever posted this specifically - but don't you keep carrier bags (for life) in the car??
I have about 6 in the car, they've been doing the shopping rounds for about 2 years.
When I don't use the car to shop I use bike with trailer that has it's own bag. Or I've walked to the shop and used a bag from in the house.
As I've said before on here, the person who serves me always seems surprised that someone actually has a bag with them
****ing hell, this again.
Bags for life were brought in to stop a litter problem, which they have been very successful at. They are not and never were intended to mitigate climate change. If you think shopping bags are the main climate impact from shopping you should perhaps try taking a peek inside the bag and having a ponder about its contents.
don’t you keep carrier bags (for life) in the car??
No cos I don't have a car. Does seem a bit bonkers fretting about the plastic in bags when you're (not you, I mean "one") shopping by car.
Bags for life were brought in to stop a litter problem, which they have been very successful at. They are not and never were intended to mitigate climate change. If you think shopping bags are the main climate impact from shopping you should perhaps try taking a peek inside the bag and having a ponder about its contents.
It makes very little difference what I think or even what you think (where's your evidence that that is how it was portrayed to the public?) what matters is what the public think and why they think they are doing it. Agreed there is far more plastic in the packaging around the food than there is in the bag carrying the packaging and if they stop and think about it they might well work that out. But most think they are being very awesome and doing their bit to reduce plastic consumption because they were told this (or think they were).
What that article doesn’t mention though is the saving in bags for a few items.
Long before this was ever a thing I always thought the default-bagging was stupid. Buying, I dunno, a pen or a Mars Bar or something, the shop would go "do you want a bag?" Eh? I've had it buying a rucksack, like you do know what rucksacks are for right?
I thought you’re not supposed to do that? Something to do with chemicals being released.
I once took to refilling a Volvic bottle with tap water to keep in the car. Came to it after several refills and was about to take a swig when I noticed the contents had gone green. I don't know the science of it but the plastics are different between disposable and reusable bottles.
I happily pay more for full fat coke too, cost is not an issue for consumers.
**** me you have just revolutionised economics.
How much shopping must some people do for the average to be 54 bags a year!
I used to take the trolley to my car on the weekly food shop and basically empty it in to the boot. When I got home I’d use a rucksack or hold-all to carry it to the house.
Does seem a bit bonkers fretting about the plastic in bags when you’re (not you, I mean “one”) shopping by car
Not really - cos even when I shop by car, it's on the way home from work on the rare day that I've driven to work. And other folk just automatically jump in the car to go anywhere - they're the people I meant.
DrJ
No cos I don’t have a car. Does seem a bit bonkers fretting about the plastic in bags when you’re (not you, I mean “one”) shopping by car.
I haven't seen too many videos of turtles (& other animals) mistakenly eating cars, thinking they were jellyfish. Carrier bags on the other hand...
Does seem a bit bonkers fretting about the plastic in bags when you’re (not you, I mean “one”) shopping by car
I walk 90% of the time to shops. I still try to not use a carrier bag did so as much as possible before the big push, seems a bit selfish to think it’s Ok as you don’t have a car.
BEHOLD! The future
I assume that the 4 times use and 54 bought each year are for the 10/20p bags not the big thick ones. People are just buying those instead of using the previously free 5p bags.
I'm probably one of the worst offenders. My 'bag for life' collection is large and varied.
As ever, it was done with the best intentions, but Industry ****ed with the programme and ruined it.
You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to work out there's a hell of a lot more plastic in 'bags for life' than disposable ones.
Supermarkets already know they're putting out record volumes of plastic, but they don't care, once the cat was out of the bag that they could actually charge for bags they dropped the zero-revenue 5p ones almost over-night. Better to flog 20p ones.
Supermarkets already know they’re putting out record volumes of plastic, but they don’t care, once the cat was out of the bag that they could actually charge for bags they dropped the zero-revenue 5p ones almost over-night. Better to flog 20p ones.
...and they they're selling bin liners hand over fist now. Kerching.
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
I use Waitrose where they bring the food in crates which I carry into kitchen and unload and give them the crate back
I hate to think what the "payback" period for re-use is on one of those crates. Fortunately, they're everywhere and so easy to acquire, and (who'd have thought it?) are great for getting your shopping to the car and into the house:
1. Put 2-3 crates in car, drive to supermarket
2. Put crates in trolley, gather shopping
3. Put said shopping into crates as it comes through the checkout (if in Aldi/Lidl, watch the checkout person silently fume as they fail to get the shopping through quicker than you can pack it, no matter how hard they try)
4. Wheel crates to car, drive home
5 Bring shopping in in 2-3 trips
They're also useful for about a billion other things.
My massive cycle-panniers have handles. Job done. 15 years and going strong. A few stitches here and there. Everyone else can **** right off with their bollocks. #notevensmug
My massive cycle panniers are made from recycled truck tarps. #considerablylesssmugthanyow.
I heard a great idea on the radio this morning, the supermarkets should have collection points at the store entrances for people to donate the excess bags they bought and those people who’ve forgotten theirs can use them.
trouble is, the people who have too many bags are the ones who never remember to take them to the supermarket.
My massive cycle panniers are made from recycled truck tarps.
We have a winner!
Anyway… here’s the issue:
• disposable plastics bad
• treating non-disposable plastics as if they were disposable even worse
Selfish lazy idiots are the problem, ultimately.
(if in Aldi/Lidl, watch the checkout person silently fume as they fail to get the shopping through quicker than you can pack it, no matter how hard they try)
No way you can pack faster than the check out person can get stuff through the latest Lidl checkouts. They read the bar codes from any angle at any speed. Two of us fail to keep up.
yup, not tech, but v tough!
If I get a pair for my made in England and then refurbished by prisoners on a training scheme Pashley postie bike, whose purchase funded a second bike being sent to Africa, I definitely win the #smugOlympics? It's fuelled by vegan food and lubricated with Green Oil, which must be worth a few points?
From that article (with the handy comparison table of how many times you need to use a cotton bag to offset equivalent in plastic)
...regardless of the bag you choose, what is likely of vastly greater importance is what you choose to put in it and how you carry it around: Eating less meat, cycling or walking to the store, and buying locally-made grocery products are all likely to make a bigger difference in lowering your personal contribution to environmental problems.
It’s not a chore or hardship for me to grocery shop by bicycle, have been doing it since a teenager and still enjoy it maybe more than I should. So ‘smug’ doesn't even cut it.
There have been times when it’s been difficult owing to disability but friends have sometimes helped, or store delivery drivers. What really blows my mind that the only time I see other bikes tied outside local supermarkets are for a couple of weeks in the high summer. And then only (literally) a couple of bikes per a retail park full of parked cars. It’s mental on every level IMO.
‘Edit’ nah, ‘smug’ is sitting in a big car sneering at someone on a bike while thinking ‘they only cycle to the shops/eat free range/less meat etc in order to be smug showoffs’
(facepalm)
Reuse - reuse - reuse.
That comparison with cotton bags doesn't include the problems with litter from plastic bags.
It is based on a a study in Denmark, which assumes the plastic bag is used once, then go to incineration. Whereas here they will probably just go to landfill.
Or they get chucked away, and littering the countryside, or ending up in the sea. At least cotton will biodegrade eventually, if it is chucked away.
Am I missing something obvious? You can't measure the success or otherwise of Bags For Life from the plastic footprint. The issue isn't how much plastic you use, it's what you do with it after. They were never meant to reduce the consumption of plastic, and probably never could.
I have about 20 bags for life probably, because I'm incompetent, and yes that's used up more plastic than if I'd got a disposable bag. But they're all in the car, or in the cupboard, none of them are in the sea.
Plastic footprint sometimes gets used as a proxy for plastic wastage when dealing with packaging, because so much is single use by definition, and because it's easier to track usage at source than it is to track disposal at end of life. But it's not the same, it's just a somewhat useful equivalent.
Take lego... Lego has a horrendous plastic footprint, but most of the disposable part is recycled and recyclable, and the plastic part is mostly reusable for decades. I have lego that's older than me, if I ever have kids they'll get it all, none of it's going in a fish.
As brant mentions above the virtue bags are even worserer.
What about my hessian (I think) ones? We have 4 plastic "bags for life" which we have had for years. Somehow we always manage to go shopping with bags. If you can remember to put your shoes on you can remember the shopping bags surely?
[strong]molgrips[/strong] wrote:
What is the answer then, to getting shopping from the shop to your house/car?
Really? If you shop by car then leave a strong box in the boot. Empty trolly to till and bang it back in the trolley as fast as they can scan it. Pay. Push trolley to car as you woulld anyway and transfer goods into box in boot of car. Drive home, carry box(es) into house. Empty boxes and replace in car. Repeat ad Infinitum. A good plastic Eurobox can be used for holding dirty biking gear after a ride too. If you take the bus then use a rucksack. We haven't used a plastic bag for shopping in this house for 20 years. And neither do we use the thin veggie bags, just bang the veg loose in the trolley.
Why not put the box in the trolley to start with (along with funkmasterp's rucksack)?
I've just realised the bag I carry my lunch to work in is 5 years old! It's from a snowboard shop in Canada, s'how I know. I flew to Canada and did a leisure activity on a mountain, which I got to by bus. But! I'm still using the carrier bag. Smug doesn't cover it.
I have about 20 bags for life probably, because I’m incompetent, and yes that’s used up more plastic than if I’d got a disposable bag. But they’re all in the car, or in the cupboard, none
A portmanteau for you, you smastard!
And neither do we use the thin veggie bags, just bang the veg loose in the trolley.
Very much this. Except for sprouts and peas. We reuse a decent brown paper bag for mushrooms, easy. Can do the same with sprouts etc. **** those plastic punnets. **** ‘em.
Thiugh obviously the way forward is to reduce convenience via banning polluting shit, as that’s the only way to get everyone onboard. Onboard, that is, without winding up in a retarded anti-cultural situation where 86% of ****s thinking/projecting that the other 14% of ****s are simply smug ****ers with ‘posh’ ‘pretentious’ shit, and so therefore 86% wouldn’t be seen dead with a brown paper bag, recycled box, or the ultimat hip smug ****mobile - a cargo-bike. If it wasn’t for cyclist being such tossers then more people would be cyclists. I read that on youtube, i think.
The solution is clearly the string shopping bags every housewife carried the shopping home in in the 60s. 90% air, far less material than the alternatives. Unless you are buying your grapes individually the gaps in the bag aren't a problem.
Also, you might want to rethink the plastic bags as bin liners, as it appears they may be leaching chemicals into the water.
I flew to Canada and did a leisure activity
Monster.
If you shop by car then leave a strong box in the boot.
Good solution. If you walk to the shop though you still need a bag, preferably shoulder bag.
a leisure activity
No way you can pack faster than the check out person can get stuff through the latest Lidl checkouts. They read the bar codes from any angle at any speed. Two of us fail to keep up.
Am I the only one that moves deliberately slowly when the stuff starts to pile up mercilessly?
There are some seriously unorganised people out there. We have around 12 of them
I'd suggest you stop feeding them, they'll soon leave.
PS I use a 25 year old laptop bag (which is made entirely of plastic). It carries lunch to the office every day and small grocery hauls picked up on the way home. Yaa boo sucks.
It will probably break tomorrow, now I done wrote this, and I'll be forced to use some inferior modern disposable rubbish.
[strong]Cougar[/strong] wrote:
Why not put the box in the trolley to start with (along with funkmasterp’s rucksack)?
Don't do it for a couple of reasons. Not packing a box/bags directly from the the till means I can re-load the trolley faster than the assistant can scan items off the belt, so zero time wasted there trying to pack stuff, just load trolley and pay. Also we keep a cool bag in the car as well so frozen/chilled stuff needs to be repacked in there anyway (it is a 25 minute drive home from town), then heavy stuff into bottom of box, light stuff on top. Just far more relaxing packing at own pace without a queue of people waiting behind you.