[Closed] Bad Driving- what's the answer?

Overtaking by hopping a line of cars

And if it's done safely, i.e. with good visibility, no oncoming traffic or hazards like side turnings?

Don't see what's wrong with overtaking if it's done properly. Sometimes you have to overtake a train of more than one vehicle these days. You often get a whole train of driving 'zombies' following a lorry moving at low speed - none of who will overtake despite the road ahead being clear.

I got aggresively flashed once for overtaking an old chap who was doing 45mph on a clear straight 60 limit road. What was the reason for that?

A turbo charged hot hatches with no seatbelts and rubbish brakes for all drivers under 30, the natural selection works.

Erm why are they "zombies"?

Northern Star - not what I'm talking about - I mean when you can't see the slow moving front of the line. Just making your way without even knowing where you're going to get back in - feeding on the good drivers who have left a sensible gap - that gap is not for dickheads to muscle in to!

Obviously overtaking is sometimes safe and appropriate - just doesn't happen very often.

How do you know the gap was less than a car length?

the hard braking and caravan wobble that occured from that vehicle just to let the overtaking vehicle narrowly avoid smashing into the oncomming vehicle (which was visible and obviously going to hit before the vehicle had made the overtake it was going for from my POV -

Erm why are they "zombies"?

I don't know? How else would you describe these sort of drivers, lack of confidence perhaps? Daydreamers maybe? loosing the will to live perhaps?

It's the CAPITALISATION for EMPHASIS that's killing me. It's not an ad agency FFS.

How else would you describe these sort of drivers

I got aggresively flashed once for overtaking an old chap who was doing 45mph on a clear straight 60 limit road. What was the reason for that?

Maybe he was congratulating you on a splendid overtaking manoeuvre? 🙂

Or warning you of speed cameras ahead?

Or most likely just being a daft old duffer who thinks the NSL is 40.

I don't know? How else would you describe these sort of drivers, lack of confidence perhaps? Daydreamers maybe? loosing the will to live perhaps?

Impatience seems to be a important behavioural flaw contributing to dangerous road use.

There's this undertone of scorn, arrogance and self-belief that leads to people speeding, overtaking badly and being dicks, all reinforced by their mistaken idea that they are more important and have more right to use the road than everyone else.

I see it everyday. Literally, [i]every[/i]day.

People just need to chill-the-****-out on the roads.

bananaworld - exactly. Just thinking about themselves and their journey, rather than the whole system. I'm convinced it is made worse by big and flash cars - some drivers think they are more elevated and important than everyone else, whereas in reality they are just a small speck in the road system, just the same as everyone else.

How else would you describe these sort of drivers,

I hate it when people queue jump.

You may consider a gap feasible in your car, I might not consider it worth the risk. Or my car's not fast enough to make it. Doesn't really give you the right to steal the next opportunity that I COULD'VE made to get past me.

If you're in the supermarket, and an old dear is struggling with her purse and change, do you elbow her out of the way, chuck her stuff on the ground and force the guy to put your shopping through instead?

when i drive in i use the stonehaven netherley road which is a B road - its also a National cycle network road.

That used to be a fun quiet country road in my 'biker-yoof'. Record was 7 minutes junction to junction 8)

And then there's the d!ck who doesn't stop accelerating until he's jammed up against your rear bumper, trying to get you to do the same to the car in front. Hey - it isn't that my car is [i]unable[/i] to bridge the gap! I just [i]choose[/i] not to, pillock. God (rant coming) why can't people that drive too close understand? If you get that close you're not able to drive your own car anymore - all you can do is react to whatever I do. (rant subsiding)

Part of the driving test is to be seen to be making sufficient progress. A friend of mine was failed for not driving near the speed limit on a clear NSl road.

To be honest it's pretty selfish for people to be saying, well I'm not in a hurry so I'll drive at 40mph regardless to the obstruction I'm causing. To be honest if you're not confident enough to make sufficient progress then you really need to take some more training. Either that or pull over every so often and let faster traffic pass. Slow driving leads to un-necesary frustration caused to other road users and we all know that this can lead to accidents.

Slow driving leads to un-necesary frustration caused to other road users and we all know that this can lead to accidents.

Agreed - but unfortunately "slow driving" often just means someone that is observing the speed limit.

I regularly frustrate fellow motorists by doing an indicated 55mph along the dual carriageway on my commute (which is signed as a 50, but people regularly do 80+ on it).

"Keeping up with the flow of traffic" is obviously important - but not to the extent that I should be forced to speed to do so.

Equally, the assumption that sufficient progress means driving at all times hard up against the speed limit causes widespread frustration. You don't [i]have[/i] to get frustrated - and certainly there is no point at all looking for an overtake where no reasonable prospect exists.

To be honest it's pretty selfish for people to be saying, well I'm not in a hurry so I'll drive at 40mph regardless to the obstruction I'm causing

It is, but that's not what we're complaining about.

I personally am complaining about people who think 60 or 65 is too slow on a NSL single carriageway road, and who think I ought to take what I consider an unaccaptable risk for their own benefit.

Roads have traffic, they have slow vehicles, you need to GROW THE F UP, MAN THE F UP and take it on the chin like a bloody adult should. YOU ARE NOT BETTER OR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE!

Wunundred! 😀

EDIT: Curse you, Mol; curse you.... 😡

See, it's things like that can tip a mayn over the edge...

I regularly frustrate fellow motorists by doing an indicated 55mph along the dual carriageway on my commute (which is signed as a 50, but people regularly do 80+ on it)

Hmmm, guess it depends whether the dual carriageway is genuinely safe for 80+ or whether there are awkward junctions, hazards or lots of accidents caused by people driving at 80+

Don't forget that despite the advances in modern car handling, braking and safety we are still goverened by speed limits that were outlined decades ago when vehicle and road technology is not what it is today. I'm not condoning breaking the law but the law does need to be updated to reflect changing times.

If there are not regular accidents then it might suggest that the road in question has an artificially low limit for whatever reason and could easily be raised without problem. Similarly the speed limit on the road outside our local school is still 30mph. This really needs to be less, perhaps 20 or 15mph would be more appropriate.

you need to GROW THE F UP, MAN THE F UP and take it on the chin like a bloody adult should. YOU ARE NOT BETTER OR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE!

Are you prone to road rage by any chance?

When people queue jump then yes, yes I am ... 😈

Hmmm, guess it depends whether the dual carriageway is genuinely safe for 80+ or whether there are awkward junctions, hazards or lots of accidents caused by people driving at 80+

Ah yes, good point raised there. My mate drove down the 50mph couple of miles of DC into town from my house wondering why tf it was 50, resenting this fact and speeding up - like everyone else does.

Well, when it was 70 there were plenty of accidents along it and I always said it should be 50.

So it's not always obvious what the danger might be.

Like I say, you can't leave it up to people (ie us as a whole) to make their own decisions all the time, because they get it wrong so often.

The limit may well be wrong, but individual drivers can't make informed decisions - because as you drive long you are not fully informed. You just don't know the facts - there may be hidden turnings or any one of a number of other hazards. Not saying I never speed, by the way, but my choice these days is way way more considered than when I lacked the experience. The error that a lot of drivers make is to assume the limit is wrong and worry about the consequences later.

Same with making a choice about going for a gap - drivers feel they are taking a calculated risk, but the collateral at risk is not just their own - they are taking an unnecessary risk with someone else's comfort and safety.

they are taking an unnecessary risk with someone else's comfort and safety

Bang on, and this is what winds me up.

Lots of people I knew at school or people who knew people I knew got killed on the roads, most were hit by people overtaking traffic coming the other way.

One particular section springs to mind - a long straight with trees and tall hedges down both sides - it actually has lots of hidden dips that you don't see, you just have to know they are there and not overtake.

Nothernstar, you obviously know more about safe speeds of cars than I do, having never driven in my life (please feel free, all, to quote that there statement of mine) but there is one aspect of speeding that has been barely mentioned and then forgotten in this thread.

Yes, modern cars are safer with their better brakes and all, but it is the consequences of speed that would appear to me to be why speed limits are stuck in their seemingly archaic past: it is less easy to avoid a random, collision-causing incident at speed, and if the collision does occur, the shitstorm is far messier at 90 than at 70.

Now I can stop being polite and just add:

If there are not regular accidents then it might suggest that the road in question has an artificially low limit for whatever reason and could easily be raised without problem.

This had better be trolling, cos if not, it's the most scary, naïve and ignorant statement in the thread so far.

Yes. "Hey look, no-one's died on this road, let's raise the limit until people do start dying"

🙄

I do have to declare that I am the most righteous born-again driver. Like other teenagers I was a complete nob, but I have made up for it in the decades since! The epiphany when you realise that going with the flow is the only way is such a blessing - suddenly you can relax!

The epiphany when you realise that going with the flow is the only way is such a blessing - suddenly you can relax!

Yes again! Absolutely.

If I ever need a lift from an STWer remind me to ask glenp first.

There is a powerful flip-side to modern cars too. You feel more invincible and unconsciously raise your risk level. Plus - cars might have improved, but human beings are still being manufactured to the same old design.

The epiphany when you realise that going with the flow is the only way is such a blessing - suddenly you can relax!

I like that idea, and wish more motorists could get over their impatience and follow your lead, glen.

I wish, as I cyclist, to be allowed to go with the flow, but the proscribed defensive cycling techniques are still not respected by today's more-right-to-the-road-than-thou drivers. Rock 'n' a hard place. 🙁

EDIT: Hope my statement hasn't quashed the mood too much, mol...

As a matter of interest, is there anyone on here who never exceeds the speed limit?

I sometimes exceed the limit - 80 or 90 on motorways if that is the flow, for example.

But I never break the gap to the car in front limit - I like to drive my own car and have good visibility too. It amazes me when you see people who's entire peripheral vision is the back of the vehicle in front - so close that the other driver will have no idea they're even there.

Well, NorthernStar never exceeds the safe limit. That much I can make out.

Maintaining 'the gap' is something the government should run an advertising campaign on, as it would not only reduce accidents but save a huge amount in fuel due to the constant brake/accelerate technique employed by most tailgating dickheads.

The insurance companies can pay for it as the reduction in whiplash claims would be huge!

Couldn't agree more woody - I just go with if I have to use the brakes I have failed. Stopping at red lights etc aside, I can honestly say I almost never use the brakes.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/getting-angry-at-traffic-jams-makes-them-go-away-201105253865/ ]Getting angry at traffic jams makes them go away[/url]

I can honestly say I almost never use the brakes

Hmmm, guess it depends whether the dual carriageway is genuinely safe for 80+ or whether there are awkward junctions, hazards or lots of accidents caused by people driving at 80+

There are a few junctions. It was an NSL and got reduced to a 50 fairly recently. (A184/A1 near the MetroCentre if anyone is interested).

But that doesn't really matter - I shouldn't be bullied into breaking the law just because everyone else wants to.

It's all of 5 miles, so the difference between saintly 50mph and dangerous 80mph is about two minutes.

Don't forget that despite the advances in modern car handling, braking and safety we are still goverened by speed limits that were outlined decades ago when vehicle and road technology is not what it is today.

Yeah yeah but for all the advances in roads, braking and safety I don't think there have been many steps forward in reaction times or eyesight.

modify the parking sensors in modern cars ...

say - closer than the 2 second rule for a given speed an audible annoying beep comes on and stays on till you haul back - not ideal but better than tailgaiters 😉

You may think so, Mung-Bean, but people blether on about relatively isolated cases of bad cycling

I think you'll find they're not relatively isolated to be fair. Cycling has become a very popular thing around here, I see 20+ cyclists on a daily commute which in reality, 40 cyclists a day, is probably not a long way off the number of cars I see (moving) a day on the same commute. I might see say... 200 or so cars I guess, take real notice of about 100 of them. While I see almost all of the cars speeding etc, I also see almost all of the bike breaking the rules too, just not the speeding ones.

It's nothing to do with the method of transport, it's peoples general lack of interest in driving properly.

Well, NorthernStar never exceeds the safe limit. That much I can make out.

I doubt whether there's any driver on the road who has never broken the speed limit to be honest. I'm certainly not perfect in this respect and nor is anyone else.

What I will do though is drive according to the road, weather, traffic and prevailing conditions and well within both my own and my vehicles capability. If it is safe to exceed the posted limit on an open stretch of road then I will do this if I perceive it as being safe and does not impede on anyone else. At other times, driving through town then I'll slow right down to way less than the legal limit.

A far safer way of driving than adhering blindly and rigidly to whatever the speed limit is - regardless of the prevailing conditions at the time.

modify the parking sensors in modern cars ...

say - closer than the 2 second rule for a given speed an audible annoying beep comes on and stays on till you haul back - not ideal but better than tailgaiters

Lots of jap import cars have speed limit warnings (like annoying chiming bells) at something around 65 IIRC. It's surprising how quickly people learn basic electronics, find it and rip it out. Same would happen with parking sensors, people would just disable it.

Strikes me that it wouldn't be that hard to make a car that just refuses to do over 70mph for any more than say two minutes at a time.
(circumventing the whole "you can't limit the car I might need to accelerate out of trouble" argument).
That would also avoid a lot of high speed police pursuits.

But as said earlier, the really dangerous speeding is not done on 70 limit roads.

I think its chile where the police will shoot you dead at the roadside if you get caught drink driving.

Too extreme? 😉

Just be glad we don't have morons like they're growing in america:

If [b]I think it is[/b] it is safe to exceed the posted limit on an open stretch of road then I will do this if I perceive it as being safe and does not impede on anyone else [b]that I can see[/b]

This annoys me too. When you're trying to get out of a junction and people are going too fast and force you to wait when there would've been plenty of time to get out if they'd been travelling the speed limit.

"COMING THROUGH! OUTTA MY WAY!" Not a nice sentiment.

This annoys me too. When you're trying to get out of a junction and people are going too fast and force you to wait when there would've been plenty of time to get out if they'd been travelling the speed limit.

Christ you must get easily wound up? Would you also get annoyed to if following pulling out of that junction you got stuck behind someone who was traveling at 40 in a 60 limit on a clear road causing you to loose even more time? Or would that be okay because at least they are not breaking the law?

It's about courtesy and consideration, not time lost.

I do get mildly annoyed when people trundle around at 40mph because it's annoying, but they are mostly old todgers who don't feel confident going any faster. So if it's either that or house arrest for them then so be it.

I don't get annoyed with tractors or lorries - they have no choice. Caravans also - they want a decent UK holiday then fair enough. I DO get annoyed with caravans taht don't pull over at let folk by though when there are lots of chances.

What I don't like is people indulging their fetish for speed on the open road at the expense of everyone else. I do sometimes feel like a nice drive and go a bit fast (although very rarely over the limit unless motorways), but when I get stuck behind something slow I just accept it, cos it's a public road and we all need to play nicely. I pass when there's a good opportunity. I don't cut it fine and I don't take risks whilst passing.

That assumption - that in your car you must go as fast as possible, and that is the default, that causes cars to just assume that piling straight past a bicycle without a second thought is ok. It's the same mentality - rather than thinking about all of the people in the system the driver is only thinking of themselves - everything else is just something in their way.