For a while I've been avoiding single-use plastics at home - buying bamboo toothbrushes, wooden dish brush heads, recyclable toothpaste tubes, cardboard deodorant packaging, refillable cleaning products and all the woke virtue-signalling Guardian-reading lefty stuff. But I'm wondering if it amounts to a hill of beans in reality? Compared with the stuff that there's no substitute for in my house, let alone what's, used in industrial processes, does it really make a difference if I use a pencil and not a plastic biro? Anyone else think along these lines and care to share your thoughts?
It certainly feels like a pointless exercise a lot of the time.
Pointless? No. Consumer choices shift awareness when you talk about them like this.
Making a big difference? No.
Chance to make some difference later this year with voting though!
However, I draw the line at paper straws. Useless.
I often ponder the same. But I guess if everyone followed your example, it would make a difference. One of the main reasons the average household has so much waste is the amount of difficult to avoid packaging. To really tackle the issue we will probably continue to need more legislation and rules… which the industry and the anti woke brigade will resist. Whilst I don’t think personal action will solve the problems alone, I think you are doing the right thing.
I think you are doing well OP and I applaud your efforts.
as mentioned, if more people took the same stance, the world would be a better place.
so please don’t give up hope. It does make a difference and you are a shining example of what great choices we can all make.
Anyone else think along these lines and care to share your thoughts?
Yes. I go to the local Zero Packaging shop (on foot!) quite often. And as I'm stuffing as many loose bog roll into my undyed cotton tote bag as I can manage, I think of my mate who took 152 flights and drove 40,000 miles last year, and I do wonder what's the ****ing point.
But I still keep doing it.
Have to admit that due to inflation my purchasing habits for food/household stuff has changed from previously considered choices. Currently have one or two bees in my bonnet so may well resurrect the SaveThePlanetTrackWorld (?) thread in order to hear what changes folk have made since, what works, what doesn't and generally share ideas.
Yes, please resurrect the save the planet thread. As a 63 year old that was into all this when my children were young (now 38 &35), I lost my way 10 years ago as I too thought “what’s the point” . However, I don’t fly or go on cruises (important), don’t do many miles in vehicles and look after my garden for wildlife (I feel a thread coming on), but, if we share tips and encouragement it would help.
My experience is that lots of folk choose to make one or two changes for the environment. If you're doing nothing else, then carry on with the plastic avoidance. Or maybe consider something more easy to do that, overall, makes just as much difference. My personal fight at the moment is mostly about reducing travel, or at least making better travel choices.
Having this discussion with the wife recently. We've made a lot of changes, some of which are making our lives a bit worse and in reality making zero difference in the big picture. I think there is a degree of "woke virtue-signalling Guardian-reading lefty stuff" in it; Carrying on our very wasteful western lifestyle while claiming to do our bit. I've been looking at other changes that in my mind are more sustainable than replacing one thing with another slightly less bad thing.
Yes there is but don't beat yourself up about slips is where I think we're at.
I our house we've now gone 3 1/2 years refilling the household soap bottles (had to buy a couple as the pumps die eventually) but at the rate we get through the stuff (a least one a week with the excessive amounts kids use) that must be getting on for a wheelie bin full of plastic not used! Before then there was no local refil shop.
So yes individual actions do make a difference and the more refilling of containers the more pressure for shops to provide that service and it can become a virtuous circle of that being the norm and the easiest thing to do.
We've also started separating plastic film, bags and wrapping from the supermarket as most supermarkets now accept it for recycling. The volume not going in the landfill bin is significant.
There is nothing perfect but small changes that you can stick to are still changes.
I agree, at times it may feel pointless, but small changes can make a difference if enough people make them.
re transport: i drive a bus, which averages 9.3-9.4mpg, so iirc, I only need 12* pax minimum at any given point in the day to beat even economical cars for fuel and co2, therefore if you’re nipping into town and public transport is possible please use it. <br />*I practically never have less than 12 pax. <br />I do long distance work, (megabus) a town bus will be somewhere between 6-8mpg. So will need more passengers to balance it out.
re transport: i drive a bus, which averages 9.3-9.4mpg, so iirc, I only need 12* pax minimum at any given point in the day to beat even economical cars for fuel and co2
I am very much pro-bus and public transport, but this isn't quite accurate because busses often travel further than you would if you were driving. The benefits of PT are much greater than simply carbon, but this is interesting nonetheless.
And we now have electric busses so even better.
Gave up on bamboo tooth brushes as I think I'm slightly allergic to them, persisted for about two years mind!
I do try to minimise plastic use, but no longer beat myself up too badly over it. We need to chance corporations not feel guilty using the stuff they push on us.
Consumer action can work, but not quickly enough IMHO...
Don’t give up! Plastic is utter shite. If companies were made to be responsible for disposing of their products before they make them they wouldn’t churn out the crap they do.
I think the UK is more plasticy than France- much more cardboard packaging and beer at gigs and fetes is in reusable ‘glasses’ here. This translates into us putting out fewer bin bags which is easier on the bin lorry etc not just landfill/recycling plants.
We're trying to do this too. I say trying as if you ever buy from a supermarket then most products are packaged in plastic.
Until it becomes financially viable and beneficial for the majority of people then plastic will reign supreme. But we can all contribute to buying plastic free products, if we can afford, and eventually the costs will reduce.
Manufacturers need to be held responsible to ensure any change happens.
Ultimately the best way to reduce waste is to use less.
I do my bit, but on my street about only ~30% of people bother to put thier recycling out in the designated containers.. the rest just chuck everything into the standard black wheely bins, so it feels like a loosing battle.
I'll keep doing it, and I'll keep trying to buy products with 'eco-packaging' - my card/paper bin and my plastic & glass bins are far more full than my non recyclable 'land-fill' bin, I think I only have to put my big black landfill bin out about once per quarter, rather than every two weeks for collection.
But people are lazy, so it feels a bit pointless.
Yes. I go to the local Zero Packaging shop (on foot!) quite often.
We used to and then it closed and then the other one a couple more miles further away closed as they weren't economically viable.and we gave up as there wasn't another option. 😞😞😞
OP I take the view that if it's functionally good enough then I will go down the non plastic route even if a little spendier.
Gave up on bamboo toothbrushes though. Teeth never seemed as clean and went back to an electric thingy.
I think of my mate who took 152 flights and drove 40,000 miles last year, and I do wonder what’s the **** point.
This is why at domestic product level I'm probably more concerned about plastic waste in the natural environment than the actual oil consumption in plastics production.
I don't know how many plastic bags/toothbrushes you get from a gallon of petrol/diesel/aviation gas equivalent but when you look at some people's lifestyle and fossil energy use (as above) it kind of suggests to me that if we want to make a meaningful difference it isn't coming from cling film vs. wax paper at home. Before anyone says we can do both I completely agree and refer you to my opening comments 😉
We recycle as much as we can and avoid single-use plastics as much as possible. Lucky enough to live on an island and regularly walk the coast and beaches - the worst culprits for plastic pollution are builders, farmers and fishing folk. The builders and farmers seem to think that leaving plastic pallet wrap and bags to blow in the wind is a good way of disposing of it, and walk the beaches here and 90% of the man-made waste is discarded fishing nets. Until we have environmental protection laws with bigger disincentives I can’t see anything changing in my lifetime.
It depends what you want to achieve. By most measures plastic packaging will normally be environmentally better than cardboard as plastics don’t require as much energy or water to produce. There are numerous analyses available on the web, and they all vary slightly based on the inputs. However there is some discussion in this guardian article (it’s old, but the fundamentals haven’t changed) https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2010/mar/31/plastics-cardboard
The one place that plastic is worse, of course, is that the waste doesn’t break down, so makes a mess if not disposed of responsibly. There is a bit of concern there as cash strapped councils may not always ensure that their decoying contractors are doing what they say, leading to waste being irresponsibly dumped.
where I try and avoid plastic packaging is in direct contact with food due to the issues with chemicals leaching into the food, but that is very hard to achieve for everything.
No point in doing anything as far too late to worry about it. We are now 100% into dealing with the issues man has caused so that should be the focus, i.e. flooding is now going to be more regular so deal with than rather than trying to stop it raining more by buying an electric car.
We try to be good with the following:
Smol products
recycle everything - including all soft plastics
community fridge - clothes and food to reduce waste/landfill.
I recognise our meagre efforts make zero impact, especially obvious as I work in manufacturing and the colossal plastic consumption and waste is utterly depressing.
Recent business trips to China and Japan really drove home how far we have to go.
Single use plastic crockery/cutlery was rife in Japan, wrapped in plastic film, was especially depressing. EVERYTHING was wrapped in plastic and utterly pointless.
Reading this thread whilst watching Planet Earth III with my young kids (5 & 8) has made me very sad indeed.
Doing every tiny bit you can helps, I don’t agree with the “**** it, we’re all in now” approach to hasten the planets demise. <br /><br />
Re straws, you can buy a pack of 10 plastic straws which can be washed and re used. We use them repeatedly at home and keep some in the car if ever needed for a takeaway / fast food meal. We keep the provided for paper straws and recycle them immediately when home.
Every little helps, nothing is pointless. I used to work in an industry where they had a monetary value on 0.1% protein in the product and also for moisture content. It wasn't much but in 1000's of tonnes of production annually it all added up.
We need to apply that sort of focus to our lives. Not adding your effort to the cause is defeatist.
No point in doing anything as far too late to worry about it. We are now 100% into dealing with the issues man has caused so that should be the focus, i.e. flooding is now going to be more regular so deal with than rather than trying to stop it raining more by buying an electric car.
There are two separate issues thought. There's the climate change issue caused by greenhouse gasses and we may be too far along to stop that although we can still slow down the effects.
The plastic issue is more to do with pollution. So much plastic ends up in the sea or blowing around the countryside getting into ecosystems and our food. See last nights Countryfile with seals getting aerobee frisbees and plastic gaskets caught over their necks leading to horrific injuries and deaths. We absolutely can do something about that which makes a real difference.
However, I draw the line at paper straws. Useless.
I draw the line at straws. I'm not bed bound.
Consumer pressure does work.
I work for a large company that supplies retail chains. The chains stipulate our package should not contain certain things, to the point that all our new product is now in fully recyclable packaging (usually carton) where it would have been in a plastic blister.
Without this customer pressure the company would use the best material for the job, best often being cheapest as well as most durable, which was commonly plastic for our application. But if it doesn't sell it's not the best.
Keep at it.
Re straws, you can buy a pack of 10 plastic straws which can be washed and re used. We use them repeatedly at home and keep some in the car if ever needed for a takeaway / fast food meal. We keep the provided for paper straws and recycle them immediately when home.
But you are still buying plastic straws which ultimately end up as unwanted plastic. Just don't use straws at all, a much simpler and better solution if you care about these things.
We’ve also started separating plastic film, bags and wrapping from the supermarket as most supermarkets now accept it for recycling
We do as well, usually save up a carrier bag full before we drop it off - it's shocking how small the collection point is at the supermarket - shows how few people must also do it 😕
I am probably not thought of as one of the most eco-conscious people on this forum, despite owning a Nissan Leaf but here is my tuppence worth.
Using a wooden spoon instead of a plastic one won't save the planet but it will help influence peoples thoughts and raise awareness which might lead to change. 'Single Use Plastic' didn't really even exist as a term 10 years ago but now most people are aware of it, and most agree it is wrong. That was achieved one wooden spoon at a time.
Virtue signalling leftie bla, blah, blah can be both good and bad. If it improves peoples behaviour then, regardless of whether the have the same motivation as you, it is probably a good thing. If it encourages them to drive their 7 seat 2.5 ton SUV half a mile down the road just to drop 2 wine bottles in recycling then it is possibly counter productive.
I try to take a balanced approach. I am not wracked with guilt for my environmental impact but I do try to avoid unnecessary waste. I like cars and have several but they are all older cars that I mostly maintain and repair myself rather than buying new ones regularly. They already existed and I only drive one at and one time so there is no additional burden caused by this. I like bicycles but once I have bought a bike I tend to keep it until it gets broken or stolen (or both). Neither of these activities are necessary and both impact the environment but less so that the activities of others, such as people who deliberately have children.
If you want to minimise your impact on the planet, don't have children. There are more than enough people on the planet so more are completely unnecessary and serve no purpose other than inflicting environmental damage on the planet. That is a mildly provocative statement, I know, but also with enough of the truth to hurt. Anyway, I just thought I would share - always interesting to see how people react when I leave myself so open to attack.
Makes a difference - probably not.
Pointless - certainly not.
Consumer pressure and awareness will drive the markets towards plastic free packaging and such like.
OP I’m in complete agreement. It all amounts to nothing in the global scheme of things. I’m sure it makes people feel better but does it move the dial. Not one bit. Just look at things like aircraft and container ship tracking websites to see how much stuff is being moved around the planet constantly. Just look at the folly that are EVs that no one can show that they are any greener that a diesel car over thier whole life.
Makes mental note to inform my kids/nephew who work in the NHS not to repair worldclassaccident when he next appears at their door, as according to him they shouldn't exist.
Just look at things like aircraft and container ship tracking websites to see how much stuff is being moved around the planet constantly.
Stuff will always need to be moved around. Far better that the stuff being moved is biodegradable or recycleable.
The recycling of soft plastics by supermarkets wouldn't have happened if people hadn't pushed for it.
Our recycling bin is full every fortnight. Our regular waste bin is barely a third full, often a quarter full.
the UK and the west outsources its polution , it needs a global strategy that is seen for its benefit as opposed its cash generation iniatives, greed and corruption rule.
i recycle, but i wonder why my local council burn waste.
Stuff will always need to be moved around. Far better that the stuff being moved is biodegradable or recycleable.<br /><br />
agreed but the impact of moving it is huge and if reducing consumption, which is the only real answer, then it doesn’t really make much difference if it’s recycled or not
Hey there,
me too movement. We have done loads to reduce the plastic use, but it feels like they should do what France did quite a few years ago now and stop the super markets from using so much, because it get impossible to remove more. I do use Butchers and Greengocer to cut the veg and meat plastic though, but in cost conscious Britain it gets to the point that the government must be more encouraging to the super markets. This is because my local butcher doesn't use single use plastics nor my green grocer but the super markets still do!
JeZ
Makes mental note to inform my kids/nephew who work in the NHS not to repair worldclassaccident when he next appears at their door, as according to him they shouldn’t exist.
I always find people who point out there are too many people about are always keener to nominate others and their families for non-existence than themselves and their own 🙂
Some countries are facing an incredible drop in birth rate at the moment - South Korea is one of the starker examples. One of the factors that drives birth rate down surprisingly is wealth and the role wealth plays in making everything expensive - housing, eduction, maternity leave and so on, rather than just being able to feed a mouth. We've had a weird blip in our own birthrate as generationally women entered the workplace and consiquently had children later. My parents had their children quite unusually late compared to their peers - in their mid to late 20s - partly because my mum has always worked and had both porents had been in education/training before they started work, where as my generation has tended to wait until the brink of their 40s - until the had worked enough to be able to afford a career break for children.
As a contrast in birth rate terms I had 8 great grand parents and on my line of the family tree I'm one of 78 great grandchildren. I come from a family line where large families where a tool for survival rather than a luxury or burden - my ancestors were all either agricultural and industrial labourers and children could be sent out to work and your grandchildren's labour were your pension, if you lived that long.
"South Korea currently has a total fertility rate of 0.81. For every 100 South Korean great-grandparents, there will be 6.6 great-grandkids." Thats not not 6.6 per great-grandparent - that 6.6 in total
South Korea's fertility rate is expected to fall below 0.7 soon - in the capital its already currently 0.57. Thats going to leave an aging population with no workforce not to support them but to just run keep the country running.
Just to maintain a population the fertility rate needs to be 2.1, The uk's its 1.56 and the majority of new mothers in the uk are also between 30 and 45
It depends which bit of the environment you priorities. Compared to most people on here, I'm an environmental head banger and am one of the most committed of my friends in terms of reducing my environmental impact. However, to me, CO2 emissions and climate change is the number 1 priority. If that's the case and something you're buying must come in packaging, it's better for that packaging to be plastic than paper or metal - the carbon footprint of plastic is lower throughout its lifecycle.
If your priority is saving the oceans or reducing litter then paper is better - but there won't be any ocean life to save or people to produce litter if you don't do something about climate change first. It'd be better for you to minimise or remove your driving, take public transport or cycle where you can, get rid of your dog, change to an ethical bank and pension fund (the impact of that can be huge) and buy as little as you can.
Just to clarify - not saying they shouldn't exist, just that if their parents wanted to have less environmental impact then they shouldn't have brought them into existence. Tell their parents not to repair me, the kids are just carrying the burden of the generation before. 🙂
@munrobiker - you'll have looked into this more than I have, so where does meat consumption sit in that list of climate friendly choices? I've reduced mine a little and tend to favour poultry over red meat, which I believe to be slightly better (though I'm also partial to a bit of local venison).
Just to maintain a population the fertility rate needs to be 2.1, The uk’s its 1.56 and the majority of new mothers in the uk are also between 30 and 45<br /><br />
Why from an environmental point of view is maintaining the population levels and fertility important? From an environmental point of view a lower fertility rate and population would be better. I accept that it will create the need to societies to change as there are a disproportionate number of elderly whilst it’s dropping. But if protecting the planet is the priority then its something that should be encouraged and a solution found.
