michaelbowden - Member
JUST becuse you exceed the speed limit on a given stretch of road does not inherently make you dangerous. Yes if you get caught you need to accept it and take the consiquences
But it is more dangerous than if you were driving slower.
100% correct, good driving is about assesing the road and the conditions
Much of it is un-assessable though. You could be a driving god, you can't however see what's coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.
I've got nothing against ASC at roadworks or for that matter at dangerous sections of road.
Oh and drive to the speedo not the satnav. Traffic flows better if everyone goes at the SAME speed not some people doing 10% more than others.
This one needs some explanation though. IMHO the main thing that would improve traffic flow on UK roads is a bit of lane discipline. There seems to be a dedicated section of motorist determined to reduce all the three lane motorways to tow lanes by totally ignoring the empty lane on their left.
Stopping people doing this would have a better effect on traffic flows then people travelling at 70mph on their sat nav
Once we've got rid of those we can go after the tailgaters too
Lifer - Membermichaelbowden - Member
JUST becuse you exceed the speed limit on a given stretch of road does not inherently make you dangerous. Yes if you get caught you need to accept it and take the consiquencesBut it is more dangerous than if you were driving slower.
Absolutely. There's very little in life that doesn't involve you making a risk assesment! 🙂
molgrips - Member100% correct, good driving is about assesing the road and the conditions
Much of it is un-assessable though. You could be a driving god, you can't however see what's coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.
Mol have you done a IAM course? This is exactly what it's about, if you can't see round the next corner, you adjust your speed.
Driving threads always end up like this.
One side saying slow down & the other side go faster.
Naturally the optimum place is somewhere in between.
Stopping people doing this would have a better effect on traffic flows then people travelling at 70mph on their sat nav
Once we've got rid of those we can go after the tailgaters too
But it's been tried for years. Notices on the motorway info gantries. Public information films. Discussions on forums. It's fairly evident that people are going to drive stupidly because nearly all of us over-estimate our skillz. Until we all drive perfectly, we just have to do stupid things more slowly.
This one needs some explanation though. IMHO the main thing that would improve traffic flow on UK roads is a bit of lane discipline.
On a typical trip down South on the M4 I might meet a middle lane hogger once or twice, so it's hardly a big issue. And it's not much more than an annoyance since you can only do it when the traffic's already flowing freely anyway so your journey time is hardly affected.
However when it starts to get moderately busy, people are changing lanes all over the place to pass other cars, and it's the lane change manoeuvre that carries most of the risk. And you have to slow down to wait for a gap, speed up again, then someone piles up behind you and has to brake, etc etc. This braking and accelerating not only uses more fuel but inhibits flow of traffic, much like turbulence in a fluid flow. It's a very well known and researched phenomenon. That's why you see those 'stay in lane' signs, and why variable speed limits work in INCREASING traffic speed.
One side saying slow down & the other side go faster.
You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?
This is exactly what it's about, if you can't see round the next corner, you adjust your speed.
What about if there is a car coming the other way?
What about if you are passing a junction?
If you are on a straight road with no other traffic, and no junctions, then I guess it's fine. However I think it's safe to say that's a pretty damn rare situation!
Are there really no takers for my bloke with a red flag? After all, if you have an accident surely it's better if you're going no faster than walking pace?
You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?
Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..
edit: & with that Im out - enjoy your ranting & raving boys & girls.
My speedo over-reads about 10% (I'm assuming my sat nav speed is more accurate...) so I generally do 60mph on the speedo going through 50mph average speed sections (there's certainly a buffer, I'm assuming about 10% so you're OK doing an actual 55mph anyhow). Not saying I'm big or clever and I will do 50mph if there's road workers about but the ones on the M5 by Bristol are just there until they put in more of the hateful 'managed motorways' crap. I am curious what the 'allowance' is though as when they first went up I misjudged the last set and had actually got up to 75mph before going through the last camera and didn't get a ticket - I reckon it must have been at least 60mph average for that section. Disclaimer: No children's faces were harmed during this incident
Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..
Top debating there.
deadlydarcy - MemberTop debating there.
😯
Calm down! I'm out too now, and I agreed with you. What's your problem?
Any motorcyclist who thinks they can ride past any speed cameras with impunity should think again;
Admittedly its only in France at the moment, but it is a very mobile technology
What about if there is a car coming the other way?What about if you are passing a junction?
Again all part of the continious assesment you should be doing whether you're traveling above or below the speed limit!
That video 😆
There seems to be a dedicated section of motorist determined to reduce all the three lane motorways to tow lanes by totally ignoring the empty lane on their left.
Agreed. This is one of the biggest problems on the motorway network. I drive around 30K per annum and amazed at the number of drivers who get on the motorway, drift into the middle lane and stay there, regardless! In fact I am convinced that the central barrier on the M56 between the M53 and junction 12 is actually a massive magnet. The left hand lane is by far the clearest with the right hand lane being clogged by stop starters.
You mean one side saying stick to the limits and one side saying there's no need if you're a driving god. So what's in the middle? Break the limits a bit? How much is ok?
Oh dear, someones blown a gasket..
edit: & with that Im out - enjoy your ranting & raving boys & girls.
Is there a special "Edinburgh Defence" type name for this type of thing ?
Where someone makes a valid point and then gets accused of "blowing a gasket" or "ranting" and patronised.
Didn't seem to be ranting at all to me 😐
You mean your concept of speed is different. However that doesn't change the physics. You're just less worried about it cos you're used to it. Familiarity does in fact breed contempt
Possibly, however it can also breed awareness, perception, skill, ability, ability to avoid things etc etc.
I'm not disagreeing that speeding isn't 'bad'.... more saying that speeding doesn't instantly make me vastly more likley to be a statistic lying at the side of the road bleeding.
I've only had 1 road accident in the last 10 years. I was doing the 'overtaking a lane of stationary traffic' you lot always go on about as being dangerous..... it was that day 😉
Possibly, however it can also breed awareness, perception, skill, ability, ability to avoid things etc etc
So you're better able to avoid things, that's great. So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?
more saying that speeding doesn't instantly make me vastly more likley to be a statistic lying at the side of the road bleeding
Obviously not, that's not what we're saying. You're extrapolating something ridiculous to try and argue against. Reductio ad absurdum.
I've had 0 road accidents in 20 years of driving. However, I've had some near misses caused by a) being inattentive, b) messing about and c) being impatient and wanting to go fast.
The c) miss was potentially by far the worst. I'd have been killed.
This is one of the biggest problems on the motorway network.
I disagree. It's a minor annoyance.
What about if there is a car coming the other way?
What about if you are passing a junction?
Again all part of the continious assesment you should be doing whether you're traveling above or below the speed limit!
Yes but you are almost always passing a junction, entrance, or oncoming cars, that's my point!
So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?
Because it's fun doing 150mph on a motorbike mate, despite it being dangerous... it's cracking fun.
Don't forget, a Sports 1000cc motorbike will go from 60mph to 130mph in the time it takes you to change to Radio 2 on your buttons on the steering wheel.... won't take that much longer to get back to 60mph too.
People seem to miss just how quick superbikes are at picking up speed... Therefore going from 60-130mph isn't the long drawn out affair as it is in a car... you can do it if you hit the 300m marker on a junction and be over 130mph by the 100m marker LOL.
Because it's fun doing 150mph on a motorbike mate, despite it being dangerous... it's cracking fun.
Right - so you're just being selfish then?
Don't forget, a Sports 1000cc motorbike will go from 60mph to 130mph in the time it takes you to change to Radio 2 on your buttons on the steering wheel
Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.
Right - so you're just being selfish then?
I guess so fella.... If that's your perception of my speeding then yes i'm just being selfish.
Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.
I wasn't aware they were all caused by blokes doing 130mph.. you'd have thought they'd write more about that...
So you're better able to avoid things, that's great. So why speed up then to make it more difficult again?
Mol, do you ride (a) a fully rigid bike with canti's or (b)something newer with better brakes and some suspension that enable you to cover difficult terrain more easily and stop quicker?
If (b), do you still ride over the same terrain at the same speed as you would on (a) - or do you go slightly quicker and ride slightly more challenging terrain, to make it more difficult (enjoyable) again?
Obviously not, that's not what we're saying. You're extrapolating something ridiculous to try and argue against. Reductio ad absurdum.I've had 0 road accidents in 20 years of driving. However, I've had some near misses caused by a) being inattentive, b) messing about and c) being impatient and wanting to go fast.
The c) miss was potentially by far the worst. I'd have been killed.
So by your own admission every 'near miss' you've had has been caused by inattentiveness and not assesing the road situation correctly and adjusting your speed to suit. NOT CAUSED BY EXCEEDIING THE SPEED LIMIT! 😉
Ah, that must be why there are so few motorbike accidents then.I wasn't aware they were all caused by blokes doing 130mph.. you'd have thought they'd write more about that...
They are mostly caused by car/van/lorry drivers not paying attention/seeing the other (two wheeled) road users and pulling out on them
or, by people being fallible.
we can't stop people crashing*, it'll happen.
we [u]can[/u] influence the damage that results. Through training, speed limits, policing, etc.)
(6 points for being a tit, and a slightly crashy history in which noone was hurt, but important lessons were (hopefully) learned)
(*not meant in a pre-determined sense, but pragmatically)
So by your own admission every 'near miss' you've had has been caused by inattentiveness and not assesing the road situation correctly and adjusting your speed to suit. NOT CAUSED BY EXCEEDIING THE SPEED LIMIT!
Had I not had a generally relaxed attitude to driving, they wouldn't have been near misses, they'd have been serious accidents... That's what I'm saying - get into the habit of chilling out and you're automatically in a much more forgiving situation, if you OR THE OTHER DRIVER makes a mistake.
They are mostly caused by car/van/lorry drivers not paying attention/seeing the other (two wheeled) road users and pulling out on them
Stats?
It's easier to see a motorbike doing 60mph than one doing 150mph isn't it?
You may be having fun and in control zipping around, but when I look out of my junction, see a clear road (or look in my mirror and see a clear lane) then start my manoeuvre and suddenly a motorcyclist appears out of nowhere it's bloody dangerous. I don't want to be hit by a speeding motorcyclist, or car for that matter.
By speeding, you are making it even harder for other road users to see you and plan and react. I don't think that's something you want to be doing on a motorbike no?
Haven't read through all of this but they do seem to work in that I recall reading about "questions being asked" in a local council as they were spending a fortune on instllation and maintenance but not getting enough revenue in to cover it, so a net loss.
It's easier to see a motorbike doing 60mph than one doing 150mph isn't it?
By the time you've 'seen' me at 150mph i'm already 1/2 a mile up the road 🙂
(crashing into a truck of course)
By the time you've 'seen' me at 150mph i'm already 1/2 a mile up the road
Yeah or wrapped around my wing!
I disagree. It's a minor annoyance.
When most people drive correctly, i.e. over to the left except for over taking, idiots hogging the middle lane effectively reduce a 3 lane carriageway to a 2 lane. This moves everyone else in to the outside lane for overtaking causing unecessary congestion and all because they don't have the mental capacity to be able to cope with moving out from the inside lane to overtake.
You may be having fun and in control zipping around, but when I look out of my junction, see a clear road (or look in my mirror and see a clear lane) then start my manoeuvre and suddenly a motorcyclist appears out of nowhere it's bloody dangerous. I don't want to be hit by a speeding motorcyclist, or car for that matter.By speeding, you are making it even harder for other road users to see you and plan and react. I don't think that's something you want to be doing on a motorbike no?
I do of course see your point... However it rarely enters into my mind at my chosen times of speed of this sort of level. They're not as common as some of my replies my imply... i don't do 150mph all the time LOL. However.... i'm probably rarely at speeds you would deem acceptable if i'm on a rideout.
Fallibility is indeed the key, none of us are perfect 😉
It's a risk assessment everytime you venture onto the roads, whatever mode of transport you're using.
I (also) ride a motorcycle myself, and accept that sadly any life threatening 'accident' I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else's fault. Statistically.
Legislation will not keep me 100% safe. People make mistakes.
Fair point. I too boot my car (100mph) very rarely (done it about three times), usually on the M48 which is empty and has no junctions after the bridge. And it's only for a minute too.
In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was...
any life threatening 'accident' I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else's fault.
Yes, but the point is YOU can do things to mitigate OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes and poor driving. You need to know this as a cyclist, I imagine it would also come in handy as a motorcyclist. Defensive riding/driving.
all it takes is one troll.....
In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was...
You see, i'm a bit weird... I can't recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo).... it feels WAY more unstable. At 100mph the car just wants to go straight, handling is crap... this isn't the mondeo, it's just 'cars' well, day to day cars...
however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk, you can corner, brake, control and ride without any of the same feelings as in cars.
Once you hit 150mph then the bike starts losing it's handling... but still feels planted.... Once you hit 180mph (topped out Hayabusa/Gixer1000) then you're relying on the road being straight as an arrow and the world goes by VERY quickly....
3 miles a minute LOL.
I can't recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo).... it feels WAY more unstable
Mine was fine at 100mph, only started to feel less stable at 110mph. As for going straight - this was open autobahn so not very windy.
however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk
But if you hit something...
But if you hit something...
the IF factor is prbably part of the reason it's fun...
HAve a word with yourself Dino.
I've had a fair few crashes racing though and even more on trackdays. The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising... it was an interesting day
Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?
Wasn't there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?
I drop well below the limit for the first half then go over the limit for the rest
Ok, so you really do not get the point of these cameras then do you.
Ho hum - Member
Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?Wasn't there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?
I'm not Barry Sheene, i'm just an average bloke who loved doing trackdays and then went racing.
I guess I can't bring myself to 'do a weeksy' on the public roads, ok on a track day, I'm too scared I get taken out.
Plus I wouldn't want the points 😉
Touching 3 figures every now and again <ahem> can't really be justified, so I won't try, but 150 to 180's a bit savage mate.
