So as I trundled down the A9 at a GPS 51.5mph and a cruise control 55mph. I got to wondering about all those panel vans that went past.
Does the avg speed camera and dvla trigger that a panel van has a lower speed limit? Plenty on lower limit transporters seemed to be happy to gamble with 60+10%+2 on a non-dualled A road.
What's a panel van?
That's a far more intriguing question!
Like a van but more van like,lower speed......Oh forget it.
Average speed cameras use ANPR so they trigger at the relevant speed limit for each vehicle class.
Same as the Van mounted cameras by the side of the road.
Like a van but more van like,lower speed......Oh forget it.Pretty sure that's not a thing, it's no different to a car with blacked out rear windows.
my fav van . . .
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Do you mean 7.5 tonne trucks? They have a special limit on the A9.
Quote craziness!
Matty you've confused me. My van is a van but also known as a panel van. It's not based on a car and has a lower speed limit.
I've Google searched panel van and the images seem to indicate that a panel van is what I thought.
Is this genuine confusion about what a panel van is, or have I missed some sort of humour ?
😕
I must have missed it too.
Well legally the same thing a van has no rear view mirror and relies on wing mirrors? If so solid sides or tinted black rear windows, it's the same thing?
Not sure why special rules would apply to either as it's a van.
Some vans are restricted to 50mph, some 70mph, some don't appear to have any restrictions at all, judging by the speed they go past me when I'm doing an indicated 80mph...
Strictly speaking it's a 'panel caravan', or 'panavaranan'
All vans [b]other than car derived ones (basically fiesta/corsa with blacked out windows) or Dual Purpose Vehicles (Crew cab vans and 4x4s under 2050KGs unladen weight)[/b] have different speed limits to cars.
NSL for cars is 60mph with 70 allowed on Dual Carriageways and Motorways. Vans are restricted to 50 on single carriageways, 60 on Dual carriageways and can do the full 70 on Motorways
Just having windows in a van is not enough to allow for the higher speed limits.
I found this last year on the A19 when I got an SP10 doing what I thought was a legal 70mph in a Transit.
TBH, while I see the reasoning behind larger vehicles having lower speed limits due to greater mass and required braking, I really don't understand why the same ruling wouldn't apply to something like a large 4wd SUV.
It also has to be about the most randomly applied speed limit offence in the country.
I really don't understand why the same ruling wouldn't apply to something like a large 4wd SUV.
It might, some 3 litre+ engined 4wd will be over 2040kg unladen
Large SUV's aren't commercials.
Only applies to commercials, hence the loophole that when you register a panel van as a motorcaravan with the DVLA, it ceases to be a commercial vehicle.
This is also why you get the confusion with T5's and Defender 110's, some are commercials but a few are not, depending on how they left the factory and if the guy sending the details had woke up late and not had time for his morning coffee.
I don't understand how making it a motor caravan let's you go at car speeds . I'm not complaining mind as I have one of those but I could as easy if not more easily be sitting at 3500kg.
I am not sure where mini buses sit either.
Crazy rule especially when you consider the weight of large cars and 4x4
To be honest I wouldn't actually be confident driving through an average camera at 60mph on a dual carriageway, you try it first?!
I have been sceptical but no where have I seen someone who has re-registered their van and then come back and said they got done for speeding at car limits.
They claim vans are still restricted due to the frontal mass and air pressure impacting other vehicles...however I could see it going the way of LGV's >7.5t who had their national limit raised from 40 to 50mph.
Edit: Minibuses are the lower speed limit. Except that stupid rule that allows the national coaches to go slightly faster than trucks, and hence weave their way around the motorway network without staying in the same lane for more than 35 seconds, and giving me white knuckles as when they pass it pushes the trailer (and van) left, then sucks it back right!
I don't understand how making it a motor caravan let's you go at car speeds . I'm not complaining mind as I have one of those but I could as easy if not more easily be sitting at 3500kg.
It doesn't. The original M1/N1 classification on your v5 is all that counts and that's the original manufacturer type approval. Classing as a camper doesn't change this or your speed limits.
I'd honestly love to see the source of that info Jambo. Can't imagine it exists as I've looked, and also not seen any mention on other threads.
Even the .gov mentions motorcaravans who's unladen weight is less than 3050kg are subject to car speeds.
Anyway I've been past a number of speed camera vans at 60 on single carridgeways in the last couple of months with no tickets to show for it. Unlikely to go at 70 on the dual carridgeaays as fuel will hurt too much.
When I bought my N1 classified T5 Kombi I did quite a bit of research. That was the conclusion I came to.
If you shoehorned a conversion in the back of it and reregistered it as a motorcaravan it will be reclassified.
How ever your right you can not change n1 to M1 etc .
Motorcaravan seems to be the exception
It still wasn't clear then if even that motorhome classification would change the speed limits.
And the VED would nearly double.
The ved doubling is why yours will have been registered n1 ....
Tbh it's not all that . I quite often stick the cruise control on about 55 and just cruise. I'm not in a rush when I'm out in the van.
That's why I'm getting close to 35mpg out of a 2.7m tall 7.2 m long van 🙂
My Discovery 3 has a kerb weight of 2700kg, has seven seats and can tow 3500kg
My minibus has a kerb weight of 2370kg, but has 17 seats which equates to around 1200kg of passengers.
If a butterfly knocks over a tree would it pay more tax than a student nurse and would that mean that my friends jack russell is racist even though he knows a vegan labrador. The labrador once chased a bi-curious postman/postwoman/postperson who was in a union, but never voted Labour.
What tyres for a kitchen fitter who's on holiday in Iceland?
Average speed cameras are a pain when you are in a vehicle that doesn't have cruise control.
Only applies to commercials, hence the loophole that when you register a panel van as a motorcaravan with the DVLA, it ceases to be a commercial vehicle.
It's not a simple as that, the conversion has to pass an inspection after the work is done for the classification to be complete. Just bunging a roller bed in the back won't do it, sink, cooker and proper plumbing need to be present.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan
Rules are here. No sink or plumbing needed .
Water container and cooker , bed , window , fixed storage and a table/seating are required.
Inspection unlikely just many comprehensive photos showing the whole thing and clearly showing the inside is of your vehicle showing reg plates on vehicle and interior together
I'm confused ...
I have and also drove a 4x4 pick up recently. Gross weight a shade under 3,000kg. Is NSL not 70?
I suspect the difference between commercials and others such as SUVs is not just the vehicle weight but the load. I knew somebody who was in a wheelchair because the load in the back of the van slid forward in a collision and crushed him. Or it may just be that SUVs haven't been thought about yet.
Minibuses are limited 50 on single carriageways, 60 on dual and 70 on motorways, but most also now have to have a 62mph speed limiter fitted.
Now that's a fair point grey beard. I'm quite happy I have a bulkhead behind me in my van as I'm sure in a crash the contents of my camper (and pretty much every other on the market) would come crashing forwards.
I don't understand how making it a motor caravan let's you go at car speeds
Me neither, but I believe it's to do with the fact you don't have a van fully loaded with a ton of stuff on a pallet in the back, it's the only thing I've heard that makes sense of it.
The 8/9 seater version of my Trafic van also has the higher speed limits. Same brakes, wheels, chassis. OK, you assume passengers are all strapped in etc but the consequences of an accident are higher.
while i agree in principal nobeer
I could have a sizable motorbike in the garage ok id strap it down but then so i could with what ever was on my pallet.
I cant imagine the vohringer ply bed frame and kitchen unit doing much to stop it in an accident
The 8/9 seater version of my Trafic van also has the higher speed limits. Same brakes, wheels, chassis. OK, you assume passengers are all strapped in etc but the consequences of an accident are higher.
Only if you assume everyone dies. With less stuff flying about, that's far less likely, and those in the back are likely to be safer in a front end shunt.
I've seen some fairly grizzly pics of the results of unsecured loads (gas canisters in this case). Luckily not much was recognisable afterwards.
[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]I don't understand how making it a motor caravan let's you go at car speeds
Me neither, but I believe it's to do with the fact you don't have a van fully loaded with a ton of stuff on a pallet in the back, it's the only thing I've heard that makes sense of it.
no pallet
but a big bottle of gas!
big bottle of gas should be securely restrained to the structure of the vehicle and in a shut off position though. If built correctly should not be going anywhere
but a big bottle of gas!
At least it's just one. But... :S I was just getting to thinking it was pretty reasonable.
[I]It still wasn't clear then if even that motorhome classification would change the speed limits.
And the VED would nearly double.
[/I]
VED stays the same thankfully, otherwise us big van owners would be be paying top band luxury 4x4 rates!
[I]Me neither, but I believe it's to do with the fact you don't have a van fully loaded with a ton of stuff on a pallet in the back, it's the only thing I've heard that makes sense of it. [/I]
A lot of conversions (especially home build ones where the interior is not paper thin caravan style furniture) are heavy, one of the main concerns secondhand is whether they are overweight. Especially the big race van conversions.
[quote=makecoldplayhistory ]I'm confused ...
I have and also drove a 4x4 pick up recently. Gross weight a shade under 3,000kg. Is NSL not 70?
It is the unladen weight that counts not the gross weight. So long as it slips in below 2040 kilos unladen [b]and[/b] AWD (NB. that manufacturers ULW include a full tank and driver, but for the purposes of defining DPW an allowance for this can be subtracted) then it is classed as a Dual purpose vehicle. Large SUVs like range rovers and the like are not commercial vehicles so the car rules apply.
A 4wd (4x4) pickup can be a dual-purpose vehicle, and, if the unladen weight exceeds 2040kg, a goods vehicle. Some 3 litre+ engined 4wd will be over 2040kg unladen and subject to lower speed restrictions
It doesn't help that "SUV" and "Crossover SUV" are meaningless in the legal context