[Closed] Audiophiles - listening recomendations

Love Action - Human League. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on in that song you can only hear well with headphones.

nickc - Member

Love Action - Human League. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on in that song you can only hear well with headphones.

Or a reference-level Hi Fi...

cliches I know, but Jennifer Warnes' Famous Blue Raincoat, Dark Side of the Moon, and Tubular Bells.

[i]Or a reference-level Hi Fi... [/i]

Sorry, genuine question, what does that mean?

Sorry, genuine question, what does that mean?

you would have to go and spoil it by asking awkward questions 🙁

nickc - Member

Or a reference-level Hi Fi...

Sorry, genuine question, what does that mean?

http://www.naim-audio.com/index.htm

... for example.

Ahhh right, decent HiFi, cool, I thought it was some sort of set up thing.

It means you have read the reference manual and have all your cables connected the right way around.

bonnie prince billy - master and everyone

the opposite of something like dark side of the moon, but very "immersive" on headphones

Or a reference-level Hi Fi...

Surely a real reference Hi Fi would be some flat frequency powered monitor speakers? 🙂

grievoustim, oooh that's a grand track, might have to stick that on

PS: I suppose I should offer an explanation of my own, so:

A "non reference-level" system will only allow you to hear a great deal less than 100% of the information that is contained in your source, ie: CD, MP3 download, Vinyl disc etc. You could say as little as less than 50% will get across to your ears.

A "reference level" system will relay at least 90% of what is available from your information source, also presenting it in a musical way with proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing.

These parameters would apply to using headphones as well, of course.

The percentages I use are approximate only, just used to illustrate the situation.

Hope that helps. 😀

[i]These parameters would apply to using headphones as well, of course.[/i]

Do you mean decent headphones on a "non reference" HiFi are better, or are just better on the Reference HiFi?

I listen to most of my stuff on headphones, is it worth spending more on a decent set, or am I wasting my time?

Decent headphones on a poor system will only allow you to hear what the poor system is giving them. That's likely to actually sound worse than poor headphones attached to the same system, because good headphones are only likely to highlight the poor reproduction.

Any piece of equipment in the chain is only capable of working to it's best founded on the quality of the pieces preceding it down the chain from the source to your ear.

GIGO, basically.

such passion for music being displayed as usual on STW. "I'm cleverer than you" 🙄

Try some Flying Lotus.
[b]M83[/b] - take me to another world on headphones.

(no mention of "parameters", "percentages" and "reference levels" I'm afraid)

Good stuff I'm listening to at the moment- The XX- XX, Beach House - Teen Dream, Frightened Rabbit- The Midnight Organ Fight all fairly easy going stuff and for something a bit livlier, The **** Buttons - Street Horrrsing & Tarot Sport
This is some of what I'm listening to on my ipod at the mo

DezB - Member

such passion for music being displayed as usual on STW. "I'm cleverer than you"

Try some Flying Lotus.

I don't understand your comment. I'm just trying to help.

The album 'Blue ' by Joni Mitchell gives me the hair on the back of the neck thing, through a good system.

'Obtain' the Guitar Heros version of Metallica's latest album.

It was mistakenly put into the game losslessly from the unmastered tracks and subsequently ripped via the digital out. It sounds amazing compared to the released CD. The drums actually punch through the guitars instead of being background mush and clipping.

Mastering these days seems to consist of setting the digital gain to +12db and clipping the shit out of the tracks. 😕

[i]I don't understand your comment. I'm just trying to help.[/i]

Sorry MrW, but the OP was after listening recommendations, not spending £5K on a new hi-fi.

[i]on STW. "I'm cleverer than you"[/i]

sorry, DezB that was probably my fault, love my music, but I know eff all about HiFi, and MrWoppit does, just picking his brain is all.

Music recommendations? Farm, Dinosaur Jr "said the people" seems to be getting more playtime than other stuff ATM

Response #1. nickc proposed a conditionality.

In direct response to the OP: One of the things that has surprised me, following each upgrade that I have made to my system over the past year, is exactly how much subsequent detail and musicality is revealed by recordings of single, double or triple acoustic guitars, playing.

nickc, as a contrast between your speakers and your headphones, you might want to try something like:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guitar-Trio-Lucia-McLaughlin-Meola/dp/B000004756/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266405645&sr=1-11

not spending £5K on a new hi-fi.

Trying hard not to give in to the temptation to indulge in willy-waving, here... 😉

If I understand the question properly...I recommend some classic jazz albums by Miles Davis and the like. REM's albums after Green are good - Green and before are good in their own right but not so well recorded IMO. The there's some Zappa albums like Best Band you never heard in your life. Beastie Boys later ones then there's the Bjork album with the shouty track - Post and even Dangerous from Wacko. Also Ween, They Might be Giants and U2 later ones. Ooh and Jelly Fish.

BTW, I use Naim Hi-Fi but not sure it's reference - more exciting.

I'm listening to iPlayer through my laptop and iPod headphones
the stream is pretty good and certainly better than listening to other people tip tap tapping away at their keyboards and complaining about the weather
.
unfortunately I don't work in a soundlab
.
is that making you cry Mr Woppit? 😉

At the risk of diverting the thread and incurring the wrath of the membership 😐 , what's your system, mudshark?

[i]is that making you cry Mr Woppit? [/i]

I'm listening to Bar 9 - on iPod headphones, connected to a .... portable Minidisc player... recorded in LP2 mode..! And it's shaggin BRILLIANT!

[edit]My eardrums have just been chewed up and spat back out. Lervly.

I always find the idea that your choice of stereo drives what sort of music you listen to a bit odd.

Having said that some music sounds poor no matter how good the system (Manic Street Preachers for example).

The following are albums that I like and that sound fantastic.

Peter Gabriel - Us
Eels - Electro Shock Blues
Lambchop - Is a Woman

Some completely electronic recordings can be very rewarding - currently, my favourite is Justin and "dlay" from:

http://www.soapsudcity.com/

I haven't heard Peter Gabriel's "Us", but I DO have a copy of "Up".

The bass extension is really impressive, even more so because the production allows the rest of the instrumentation to still shine through...

Lambchop new to me, not my thing, but it's cool to listen to new stuff

I agree with dezb about m83, they're great. If you like that try listening to Norken, all the songs are good but east is a good one to listen to first... That stuff sends me miles away...

mudshark, never "got" Zappa, where would you recommend I start?

[i]That stuff sends me miles away... [/i]

Which reminds me: Burial.

I haven't heard Peter Gabriel's "Us", but I DO have a copy of "Up".

Us is much better than Up.

Burial +1

Dez, do you know Norken? I thinkyou would really like it...

[i]Dez, do you know Norken? I thinkyou would really like it... [/i]

Listening to Norken Radio on Last.fm at this very moment. Perfect listening for work 🙂 Cheers for the recommendation.
(and a big change from Bar 9!)

The most dissappointing CD's I've bought, simply because they can't compare to the quality of the original vinyl versions, are Jimmy Page's re-mastering of the Led Zeppelin output.

I think it was a bad idea to let him anywhere near the desk - after all, this IS a man who's spent over 40 years in front of an enormous stack of Marshall speakers listening to himself at enough volume level to launch a space shuttle... 😯

+1 for UP by M83- cracking track. A definate nod to Kate Bush on that one. I actually thought it was her when I first heard it.

http://www.last.fm/music/+noredirect/M83/_/Up+!?autostart

I really must get some decent headphones (rather than earbuds). So much of my listening is done like this these days - hifi is hardly used, alas - that is seems silly not to have a slight quality uplift, even if it isn't to [i]reference[/i] 🙄 standards.

There is an element of choosing a hifi to suit the music one likes (like Naim with their tradiotnally "fast" sound), but since I like a wide variety of music I have to accept the limitations of the kit I listen though. Most of all, though, I try not to listen too intently to the individual sounds, rather to absorb the whole effect.

For music to be good, it must touch my soul in some way. There is no [i]reference[/i] for that.

[i]For music to be good, it must touch my soul in some way. There is no reference for that. [/i]

I agree, I've never really been interested in whole HiFi thing, although i understand the appeal, music for me has to say something.

Rachmaninoff's Vespers recently made me sob like a baby...marvelous

ourmaninthenorth - Member

For music to be good, it must touch my soul in some way. There is no reference for that.

That's what's so good about NAIM equipment, in my experience - one of the things it does really well, is convey musicality (pitch, pace, rhythm and timing) - the "HiFi" stuff is a bonus.

Some systems I've heard can be wonderfully analytical, but don't inspire the foot to start tapping along...

Rachmaninoff's Vespers

Whose recording? I really must pick up a copy.

That's what's so good about NAIM equipment, in my experience

I don't deny that. Almost all Naim stuff I've listened to has been great, though the naimee adherents are a little on the tiresome side. Or, as a friend put it, if Naim released a condom with a hole through it, they'd claim it was better than industry standard.

I used to be really keen on hifi, but always as a means to an end. Now, all my CDs are loaded into the computer at 128mb, and I listen on my ipod. Recently, I've never bought so much music, regularly buying 5+ CDs a week.

I don't deny that.

Oh, O.K...

if Naim released a condom with a hole through it, they'd claim it was better than industry standard.

Well, obviously it would.

though the naimee adherents are a little on the tiresome side...

You should have a look at the forum - one post recently went into great depth discussing the best way to dust/clean the casing on one of their Power Supply Units... 😯

You should have a look at the forum

Once made the mistake of that. Never, ever again.

Is the (in)famous Mick Parry still posting there (and on PFM, a rather more sensible place, but somewhere i haven't been for a while)?

It's definitely worth upgrading from standard ipod buds and such like, although the sky is the limit with headphones and associated rigs. I'm geeky enough to have organized a UK headphone show/meet last year & have some quite nice stuff which is on a "you could buy a car for that" sort of level, with which I think many on this forum can associate :-). IEMs (the very best ones) are now at a level where they can compete with many of the best full size headphones out there, and have the benefit of being easy to drive and portable. All comes down to budget of course.

Music-wise, I do tend to focus on stuff that's good on headphones. Gotta put kids to bed now, will have a think about some good ones & post later 🙂

pedalhead - cheers for that.

I am, being a recovering hifi geek, only too aware of just how expensive decent 'phones can be.

I haven't heard Peter Gabriel's "Us", but I DO have a copy of "Up".

The bass extension is really impressive, even more so because the production allows the rest of the instrumentation to still shine through...

I couldn't but hear this in my head in this voice:

In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.

will have a think about some good ones and post later

I'd be interested in good ones for iPod/iPhone use.

I've just got an iPhone and the standard ones with the built in mic/remote are awful. I'm using by Sennheiser in-ear ones but would like to get a better pair with a remote/mic.

These [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00264GYMG/ ]Klipsch[/url] ones look good. But £90 is a lot to spend without knowing what they are like.

Are Etymotic still highly thought of?

Karl Dent conducting the Robert Shaw Festival singers Telarc recording, it's lush in a Russian god-bothering stylee

Not sure it strictly OT (but they do sound great on headphones to me...):

Bill Callahan - Too Many Birds
Gillian Welch - Annabelle
Pavement - We Dance (Alternate Mix)
Jason Molina - Spectral Alphabet
Bonnie Prince Billy & Tortoise - Calvary Cross
Cat Power - Willie
Chris Wood - England in Ribbons
Doc & Merle Watson - Frankie & Johnny
Velvet Underground - Sister Ray (no really!)

delusional - Member

I haven't heard Peter Gabriel's "Us", but I DO have a copy of "Up".

The bass extension is really impressive, even more so because the production allows the rest of the instrumentation to still shine through...

I couldn't but hear this in my head in this voice:

In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.

I just want to fit in.... 😈

can't be arsed to read all that ^ but I have a dispute about one of Mr Woppit's comments (not for the first time when discussing music, IIRC):

[i]... also presenting it in a musical way with proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing.[/i]

Sorry MrW but, speaking as a musician (ok then, a drummer*), unless the [i]musicians[/i] can do that, no amount of money spent on "reference hifi" can sort that out.

*no, enough of the drummer jokes. I'm serious.

[i]Most[/i] human drummers will vary slightly through any individual piece. Your "average" music fan won't notice unless it's seriously bad. Some drummers [i]can[/i] keep perfect time - the late Robert Heaton is an example that springs readily to mind.

Being [i]too[/i] perfect sometimes takes the soul out of a piece - you may as well have a well programmed drum machine or sequencer instead

If a drummer is bad enough at keeping metronomic time that it's noticeable to Jo(e) Public, then he/she will probably work to a click track when recording, in order to eliminate this issue as much as possible. But a hifi system, no matter how good, or bad (unless the wow/flutter are perfectly synchronised to the drummer) can correct this.

nickc - cheers

Ah well, this list could be ten times as long but I had to stop somewhere :-). These are some of the albums I really enjoy on headphones...some just for their intimacy, some for the mixing and/or mastering quality...

Female vocals...
Rachel Unthank and the Winterset - Cruel Sister
Imogen Heap - Ellipse
Laurie Anderson - Life on a String
Patti Smith - Horses (Legacy Edition)
Diana Krall - The Girl In The Other Room
Fiona Apple - Extraordinary Machine

Jazz...
Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio - Midnight Sugar
Toshinori Kondo - Nerve Tripper
Hiromi - Brain
Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew

Rock/pop etc...
Pretenders - Pretenders (Audio Fidelity 24kt remaster)
King Crimson - Red (2009 Steven Wilson remaster)
Diablo Swing Orchestra - Sing-Along Songs For The Damned & Delirious
Dire Straits - Love Over Gold (2000 Remastered)
Gomez - Bring It On
Mars Volta - The Bedlam In Goliath
Neutral Milk Hotel - In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
Opeth - Watershed
Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
OSI - Office Of Strategic Influence
Radiohead - In Rainbows
Sufjan Stevens - Illinoise
Mogwai - Young Team

Electronic
Boards of Canada - Music Has The Right To Children
Explosions In The Sky - The Earth Is Not a Cold Dead Place
Daft Punk - Discovery
Air - Pocket Symphony
Massive Attack - Mezzanine
Estradasphere - Palace Of Mirrors

Mogwai - Young Team

Electronic? Don't remember much of that upstairs at the Riverside Club, Newcastle back in '98....

😉

ha yes oops, I chucked that one in at the last minute. Edited to reflect the fact they're more of an experimental rock outfit 🙂

Gomez - Bring It On

Great album.

A band you'd think would be great live but sadly aren't (or at least when I saw them).

Vince Clarke and Martyn Ware - Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle - written and recorded in '3D' (not surround) for the Music Museum that went bust in Sheffield - you have to listen to in using cans

john-drummer. firstly.. how do you tell that a drummers stool is level?
he dribbles out both sides of his mouth.

I think what mr woppit meant with his timing and rythm comments is that the hi-fi equipment can reproduce the original recording with the same rythm etc that was recorded.. at least that is how an audiophile friend of mine would put it...

he works in the industry as a reveiwer for a well respected specialist hi-fi magazine and would have lots of recommendations here... including serial numbers so that you listen to the correct recording.

he would also choke if he had to listen to Naim equipment..

Mr Woppit - Member

delusional - Member

I haven't heard Peter Gabriel's "Us", but I DO have a copy of "Up".

The bass extension is really impressive, even more so because the production allows the rest of the instrumentation to still shine through...

I couldn't but hear this in my head in this voice:

In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.

I just want to fit in....

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums

I don't think most of these replies are actually from audiophiles, which is what the question asked for so can be discounted from the off.

Nor the original poster, if truth be known as he's listening through headphones. This is not something an audiophile would consider.

If you really wanted some recommendations, you need to be listening to the music, be it a CD or preferably on vinyl through stereo speakers. On valve equipment if you really want to let the music breathe, but hat's just me! There are other web forums who specialise in this type of thing. Once you have heard music through a "reference" system you'll be amazed!

It would be useful to know more about the post's author and what he's playing his music through.

You will never achieve audiophile nirvana with compressed music such as played on your iPods, MP3's and the like - sorry - these are abominations (in answering this thread) and do not even come close to audiophile status, regardless how much you might think it's wonderful music you're hearing. I'm not knocking the compressed nature of modern systems, but the original post talks about that rarified atmosphere surrounding what he terms audiophile, so that's what we should be concentrating upon not recommending listening to compressed muscic on the computer or through headphones or buds! His post asks about music at a completely different level, not just what sounds good through non-andiophile kit.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Grammophon ]Deutsche_Grammophon[/url] produced some landmark recordings.
[url= http://www.play.com/Music/MusicDVD/4-/836207/Pink-Floyd-Pulse/Product.html ]PULSE[/url] What's interesting about this recording is that they had the insight to use a resurrected mobile valve recording studio.
Try some of these? [url= http://www.martinlogan.com/products/summitx ]Martin Logan[/url]
[url= http://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/ ]You did ask![/url]

I don't think most of these replies are actually from audiophiles, which is what the question asked for so can be discounted from the off.

Nor the original poster, if truth be known as he's listening through headphones. This is not something an audiophile would consider.

If you really wanted some recommendations, you need to be listening to the music, be it a CD or preferably on vinyl through stereo speakers. On valve equipment if you really want to let the music breathe, but hat's just me! There are other web forums who specialise in this type of thing. Once you have heard music through a "reference" system you'll be amazed!

It would be useful to know more about the post's author and what he's playing his music through.

You will never achieve audiophile nirvana with compressed music such as played on your iPods, MP3's and the like - sorry - these are abominations (in answering this thread) and do not even come close to audiophile status, regardless how much you might think it's wonderful music you're hearing. I'm not knocking the compressed nature of modern systems, but the original post talks about that rarified atmosphere surrounding what he terms audiophile, so that's what we should be concentrating upon not recommending listening to compressed muscic on the computer or through headphones or buds! His post asks about music at a completely different level, not just what sounds good through non-andiophile kit.

Deutsche_Grammophon produced some landmark recordings.
PULSE What's interesting about this recording is that they had the insight to use a resurrected mobile valve recording studio.
Try some of these? Martin Logan
You did ask!

Hmm, vinyl, valves, martin logan. Subscribe to many "hifi" mags? What makes you think the OP is listening to compressed music? Valves...put that mag down & go & listen to a balanced b22 solid state headphone amplifier. I have four valve amps/pre-amps, and a load of solid states, and have listened to many many more. Which you prefer is down to..yes...preference, not some "audiophile" elitist nonsense/ignorance, of which your post reeks I'm afraid. Same goes for digital v analogue. get the right DAC and you can inject a hint of "analogue" if that's your preference, whilst still retaining the speed & detail of a good digital setup, although having said that many people prefer a digital source anyway (myself included). Oh, and in case you're thinking about "imaging" about now, try googling "crossfeed". The OP was asking for suggestions of music that "wow"'d them over headphones, and you don't need to spend thousands on a headphone setup (or indeed a speaker setup...put those MLs away) to enjoy the benefits of a good versus a bad recording, or in this case something that might sound particularly good via headphones, such as an intimate female vocal.

Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus (12" pump mix)
Johnny Cash - Personal Jesus (compare and contrast with the above)
Barber's adagio - any number of decent recordings
Robert Plant - Dreamland

Most human drummers will vary slightly through any individual piece.

I know I used to..... wildly. 😳

I think what mr woppit meant with his timing and rythm comments is that the hi-fi equipment can reproduce the original recording with the same rythm etc that was recorded.

Yup.

My favourite Phil Collins is on "Product" by "Brand X", where he was still doing what he does best before he decided to become an A.O.R star - drumming.

Now excuse me, I have to go and feed my cat to the money dispenser.

My system is CD3/NAC72/HiCap/NAP140 with KEF reference 104/2 speakers. A fairly modest system for Naim that I've had for 12 years I think but enough for me as have other things to spend money on.

As for Ti29er's response above - I picked out recordings I have that are both mainstream and well recorded. I also have stuff from Linn and Naim's labels which are stronger on the audiophile side but of no interest to most.

presenting it in a musical way with proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing.

this statement really is utter, utter nonsense.

I don't doubt for a minute that a nice hifi will sound very, very good - and do the best job possible of reproducing whatever has been recorded to vinyl or CD. I have no doubt that you stand a better chance of hearing detail on certain instruments that will be lost when listening on a transistor radio

but the pitch of a note is the pitch of the note, the rhythmn is the rhythmn and no expensive speakers are going to change that

Pedalhead has made tHe classic error (as expected) in discussing only his take on his equipment, and everything and everyone else is rubbish.
THINK!
Read the question.
Read the question.
Read the question.

Audiophiles - listening recomendations

He wants some recommendations of audiophile quality music.

What you play it through makes a huge difference, like PH, you can have all the kit in the world but if you don't tailor it to your listening room and tastes you'll not get the most from your kit. No point in having all the kit, some of the knowledge and then buying speaker wire from B&Q.

Pehaps PH should read more and then he'll better understand what the original post was looking for.

Personally my reference CD's are:
White on Blonde - Texas.
Pulse - Floyd.
A Crowded House CD
Doves - the Last Broadcast (love this album!)
Dvarak - Cellokonzert (DG)
Unna Mattina - Ludovico Einaudi (piano is the most difficult instrument to replicate with HiFi)
MTV Acoustic unplugged live CD's - I think there are two.

This then gives me a reasonably cross section of music I like and want to listen to.
That, I belive, answers, in part, the question, albeit indirectly.
These also help me test new or replacement kit when I'm thinking of upgrading (but only if What HiFi tell me to).

Robert Plant and Alison Crauss is very good.

I have an original master recording of Jethro Tull's Broadsword and the Beast on translucent virgin vinyl - does that make me an audiophile?

@grievoustim no more than the stuff that gets spouted about bikes, wine, food etc.. Some systems float some people's boats others don't, and some people are prepared to pay a lot to have their boats floated/

presenting it in a musical way with proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing.

this statement really is utter, utter nonsense.

I don't doubt for a minute that a nice hifi will sound very, very good - and do the best job possible of reproducing whatever has been recorded to vinyl or CD. I have no doubt that you stand a better chance of hearing detail on certain instruments that will be lost when listening on a transistor radio

but the pitch of a note is the pitch of the note, the rhythmn is the rhythmn and no expensive speakers are going to change that

Whilst I agree with much of what you're saying, and there is a lot of airy fairy bollocks written about hifi, I do think a good loudspeaker can carry a rhythm better than a bad one...crucially, via better control of cone movement. This will be particularly evident in lower frequencies, where a really good low frequency driver will be tight, deep & fast (steady there!), and a bad one will be flabby, unable to recover from one note before another note arrives. In fact, kind of like the difference between a crappy/badly set up suspension fork and a good one...oooh see what I did there? 🙂

But at the end of the day, the hills i.e. the rhythm, are still coming at the same rate, it's just the journey between them that's a bit rougher 🙂

He wants some recommendations of audiophile quality music.

I'm guessing you missed the bit where I recommended 30 albums.

I actually think he used the word "audiophile" mistakenly. Be nice to hear from him!

[i]proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing[/i]
WTF is that?
[i]hi-fi equipment can reproduce the original recording with the same rythm etc that was recorded[/i]
How the hell would you know?

Anyway, don't answer, cos this thread has made me cringe enough already.

I've listened to a variety of systems and even those that are in the thousands can vary quite a lot in the sound they produce. Naim does sound more exciting to me and I think that's what some say is down to timing. I have no idea about that but the sound I get gets me a bit closer to a live performance in terms of excitement but other systems will be better in getting a more realistic sound but I'm not so bothered about that.

[i]Naim does sound more exciting to me[/i]

I've no idea what this means. Various different music makes me excited or sad or emontional, mostly it has to be said when I'm standing in a sweaty cave of a club listening to it with 3 or 4 hundred other like minded folk, but I've never thought to myself "ooooh this HiFi is exciting...."

proper pitch, pace, rhythm and timing
WTF is that?

The essential building blocks of music.

hi-fi equipment can reproduce the original recording with the same rythm etc that was recorded
How the hell would you know?

By comparing it to other systems that deliver it less well.

Hope that helps.

but how do you know they are doing it less well? were you in the control room of abbey road when dark side of the moon was recorded?

I thought the whole hi-fi snobbery thing was a load of w*nk too until I found myself being subjected to some comparison tests..

now I unfortunately (very unfortunately when you condsider my disposable income) can and do get excited by good quality sound reproduction and find it very unpleasant to listen to poor sound quality.

taking strong mind altering drugs is a much cheaper way to improved sound quality and music appreciation according to some people..

I know that one system is "doing it" less well than another because I can hear it.

That may to some degree be subjective, however - that's probably why there is more than one approach to building HiFi systems.

Different strokes and all that...