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But basically no pudding for Russia?
Putin press conferences should be amusing on this as he blames western lies for this
He doesn't really do them. He has epic staged many hour long phone-ins. Some tank factory foreman offered to round up a bunch of the lads to beat up pro democracy protestors. Putin liked him and appointed him as presidential envoy of The province y. It's getting close to Gadaffi territory.
https://www.rt.com/politics/putin-position-plant-foreman-570/
Seb Coe getting a pasting on newsnight
I do remember when all the revelations were coming out over the Summer that Coe was in the middle of an election for President of the IAAF and remmeber the press were saying he had to tow the party line of nothing is wrong here to get elected. the thought was that after he was in he could do something about the drug allegations .
I suppose I am ever hopeful that he is a reformer rather than a steady hand for the druggies, but I didnt realise he has been vice-pres for the last 9 years - wasnt he running London 2012 for a fair few of them ?
In the balance of things, athletics are screwed aren't they
This is Jon Snow interview with Coe
"either you were asleep on the job or part of the corruption"
https://twitter.com/SSbike/status/663824681733091328
In the balance of things, athletics are screwed aren't they
Depends what you mean by that. As a sport, it'll be fine. There's too much money and interest for them not to be at the Olympics I reckon.
I suspect that Coe knew what was going on (by rumour if not fact) and in his mind planned to get elected to try and sort things out from the inside but knew he wouldn't get elected if he appeared to be threatening the status quo. Whether that's the right approach and works for the long term better good is debateable.
See that WADA have also called for a ban on Kenyan athletes if they don't improve testing.
Interesting to hear also UKAD complaining about cuts in government funding meaning a reduction in testing. A bit surprised that the level of testing required for a nation to participate isn't mandated by WADA.
"either you were asleep on the job or part of the corruption"
Must watch that interview. You really can't be vice president of an organisation and not be aware. Time for some straight talking by Coe if he wants to come out of this with any credibility.
I suspect that Coe knew what was going on (by rumour if not fact) and in his mind planned to get elected to try and sort things out from the inside
If that is the case why come out with statements about the outgoing president being his "spiritual leader" etc. You'd have expected him to be a lot more cautious.
[quote=MSP opined]It seems that the head of the uk anti doping organisation only thinks that it is something those foreign chaps do. Good to see we have such a relentless bloodhound on the case
You are Putin and I claim my topless picture of you crocodile wrestling
It's politics, isn't it. People get swept up in it and think they're playing the game right and forget that it's not about IAAF but rather about the people actually doing the sport.
Going back to the late seventies/early eighties the east Germans on their state-organised doping programmes spent lots of time in Africa training with the best African runners. Some Finns have admitted to blood doping at the time and the Italians were also known to be blood doping. The yanks were knee deep in dope too. Against all these talented doped-up athletes who dominated middle-distance running at the time?
You are Putin and I claim my topless picture of you crocodile wrestling
junky still in denial I see, at least you actually do have a 100% record on that. Couldn't be our british boys and girls, they just run on pluck and courage.
OH how you persuade me with your excellent use of logic and reason 🙄
FWIW the report also mentions Kenya in the report - I suppose that will allow you to say they are still racist and only targeting "darkies" as well as Commies
I dont doubt there are other issues and other offenders [ inclusing certain sports and countries] but to just claim its a report solely motivated by racism[ and this is why others are not reported] is , frankly, ridiculous and will be likely the Russian position if they bother to deny the overwhelming evidence.
Your the only one mentioning racism, just a sad attempt to deflect from how rotten the sport is to the core.
UKDA could and should have just said that this shows how vigilant they must be, but instead they fall in line with the ring-fencing of the problem and state what good clean boys and girls the brits are. It seems they believe their role is to prove innocence instead of catching the cheats. Just another display of denial, like coe and yourself.
Still not sure what you are accusing me of denying shall I say again i think others are cheating?Perhaps you could be specific?
As for racism you said they only thought "foreign chaps " cheat so you brought it up.
Seb Coe: Ex official of FIFA, ex VP and now Pres of IAAF, ex member of Tory government, last race was alleged to be fixed so he could win...and it's a surprise he's not the wind of change to blow away the stench of corruption?
I'm particularly liking Cookson offering to share the UCI experience on how to clean up a sport. A sport that has never had a doping positive free year, even in the World Tour teams.
A sport that has never had a doping positive free year, even in the World Tour teams
See, I don't see that as a bad thing at all. It means that yes, we do have dopers, but we are catching them. To have zero postives would smack of it being swept under the carpet [cough]football, tennis[cough]
I do remember when all the revelations were coming out over the Summer that Coe was in the middle of an election for President of the IAAF and remmeber the press were saying he had to tow the party line of nothing is wrong here to get elected. the thought was that after he was in he could do something about the drug allegations .
I suppose I am ever hopeful that he is a reformer rather than a steady hand for the druggies, but I didnt realise he has been vice-pres for the last 9 years - wasnt he running London 2012 for a fair few of them ?
IIRC Cookson was around during all the doping too but didn't stop it, but he was overt when bidding for presidency that he was going after the corruption e.g. the minute the vote came through I believe they walked into UCI headquarters and seized all the computers.
So slightly different approach but similar circumstances - get in someone who's been close to the corruption but not actually involved in it, to replace the corrupt leadership. Has to be done by stealth and political means. Time will tell but it's possible Coe had to go very gently to hide his real agenda from the people he was out to get. You never know, he may have secretly commissioned WADA to do the investigation and report, knowing his reputation would take a hit as it was the best way to undermine the incumbents without outright conflict which they may win by playing extremely dirty.
All guesswork on my part but IIRC there's never been a shred of rumour that Coe has ever doped or taken part in any corruption when competing, so his previous character is 100% good?
@kimbers yes I saw Newsnight and Channel 4 news, Coe got an even tougher grilling from Snow than Davies. The interview with the German journalist who broke the story last year was very interesting.
I am of the view that the majority of the wrong doing took place in Russia / other countries with the link to the IAAF being quite limited and specific. I have no doubt Coe had his suspicions about Russia but I also believe he is totally clean. If you are on a path to become IAAF president then there is little incentive to make accusations unless you have evidence or until you are president, then you are in a position to do something about it.
We can judge Coe by how he handles this from this moment forwards. A ban on Russia including the hosting if the World Student Games, participation in the World Indoor Championships and Olymlics and permanent closure of the testing facility in Russia would be a good start.
EDIT
he minute the vote came through I believe they walked into UCI headquarters and seized all the computers.
The Russians aren't daft all the computers from the football World Cup bid where destroyed as where 1400 test results at their WADA accredited lab.
Xenophobia isn't the same as racism, or even nationalism for that matter.
British cycling sides with the cheats finding excuses for them rather than applying the rules and banning them. An athlete had strange blood hematocrit results including over 50% which meant the rider couldn't race and they whitewashed it. An official stated the rider didn't use drugs when there was no way he could have known unless he'd personally guarded the rider under lock and key and allowed him no visits for the previous month.
Eedit:JUst
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An unknown French athlete was very upset when he was declared positive, not because he wasn't but because his elite team mates who had received the same positive result hadn't had their names given to the press and weren't being punished.
The east Germans had a testing programme that was there to make sure that their doped athletes never tested positive in competition. When the wall came down the people running that programme were employed as coaches in Africa, Australia (rising to the highest rank in Australian cycling), The US and who knows where else. The national labs aren't there to stop athletes doping they are there to stop them testing positive in competition. And even if they do test positive there's the plan B of paying off an official to shred the results. The BBC did a programme about this after Atlanta (where many of the US medal winners would have tested positive if an IOC offical hadn't shredded the results - according to the BBC and I have the video somewhere) but developed memory loss when the games were held in London.
@edukator - yes I remember the East European thing very well, the Chinese hired the swimming coaches and suddenly won plenty 😥
If you are on a path to become IAAF president then there is little incentive to make accusations unless you have evidence or until you are president, then you are in a position to do something about it.
Because the second most senior person in the organisation has no power at all. 🙄
Face facts: it happened on his watch.
I have no doubt Coe had his suspicions about Russia but I also believe he is totally clean. If you are on a path to become IAAF president then there is little incentive to make accusations unless you have evidence or until you are president, then you are in a position to do something about it.
his very aggressive attacks on those trying to unearth the corruption dont come across that way at all
exactly the same as we've seen time and again, in football, cycling etc
Nasty, nasty Russians and yet we are Persil white. No really...
I know, crazy that some people who know where cycling has come from will claim that's the case for athletics.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting all UK athletes are doping but I'd be amazed if there aren't a good number who are.
I'll be amazed though if the IAAF doesn't go through exactly what cycling did while ignoring all the potential lessons. Especially as it seems likely that doping is still happening to some extent in cycling.
You've got to admire Dick Pound, he doesn't take many prisoners.
BBC news website headline:
Athletics doping: Kremlin says claims are 'groundless'.
🙂
Kremlin says claims are 'groundless'.
The hilarious thing is the Kremlin's reasoning: Other countries have had just as many +ve tests, so why pick on us?
Erm....
The issue is that you're covering up doping Russia. That's probably behind why the amount of people you have that test positive isn't crazily high.
You've got to admire Dick Pound, he doesn't take many prisoners.
[url= http://www.wired.com/2007/01/pound/ ]This might have something to do with why Dick Pound isn't as naive as Seb Coe and has the fury.[/url]
Nasty, nasty Russians and yet we are Persil white. No really...
Who's saying that?
Regardless, there is a difference between the actions of individuals, and a state-sponsored programme of cheating.
IIRC Cookson was around during all the doping too but didn't stop it
Citation needed please.
and
Because the second most senior person in the organisation has no power at all.Face facts: it happened on his watch.
So Coe disagreed with his boss but not openly accusing him of cover ups because he would have lost his job.
In context - some years ago my boss was a complete arse, he got found out, I got his job...Sorted out the problems and handed over the business to someone else. It's not that difficult to understand.
great article hugo
Ross Tucker has pulled a lot of interesting bits together [url= http://sportsscientists.com/2015/11/shock-plus-denial-divided-by-the-tip-of-the-iceberg-a-recipe-for-mistrust/ ]here[/url]
IIRC Cookson was around during all the doping too but didn't stop it
Citation needed please.
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cookson ]Wikipedia[/url]
Cookson previously served as president of British Cycling from 1997 to 2013, after becoming a member of an emergency committee to rescue it from insolvency in 1996.
I'm not suggesting Cookson did anything underhand at all - just that he was in the governance of cycling and had a relationship with UCI but didn't come out shouting about the corruption which he must have at least had a suspicion of - he was more political than that and playing a long game - almost certainly necessary when you consider what he was up against. The possibility I'm suggesting is that Coe has played a similar game - essentially don't warn your enemy you're coming, keep your cards close to your chest, sneak up quietly and trip then up when they least expect it...
I think that Ross Tucker article nicely sums up how bad it looks on Coe, his actions to date have been shameful, not just biding his time quietly till hes in a position to fix things, but actively trying to dismiss investigations
hes got a lot of work to do to prove he's not been complicit in it all along
If you are on a path to become IAAF president then there is little incentive to make accusations unless you have evidence or until you are president, then you are in a position to do something about it.
If he did not know then he is incompetent if he did know then he id complicit
Which option are you picking for him whilst supporting him?
Nasty, nasty Russians and yet we are Persil white. No really...
Who's saying that?
No one is saying that, he just made it up.
If he did not know then he is incompetent if he did know then he id complicit
I'm not defending Coe at all but we have to consider that he could only deal with it once he was at the top - and to make any move beforehand would've blown his cover. Let's not forget he's up against the Kremlin here - they have previous for putting enemies out of action...
did you hear any of his interviews before the report came out?
Hardly sounded like man waiting for his opportunity to use the smoking gun he knew was coming as he had just been waiting for his opportunity
Thank god our new friends, the Chinese, are squeaky clean on this
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did you hear any of his interviews before the report came out?Hardly sounded like man waiting for his opportunity to use the smoking gun he knew was coming as he had just been waiting for his opportunity
Don't be daft, this is STW 🙂
But seriously, given who he's up against he could well have needed to play the undercover cop role - these kind of 'Armstrong/McQuaid tactics' would be the role he'd have to play to ensure he didn't raise suspicion that he'd be a troublemaker...
I'm not defending Coe at all but we have to consider that he could only deal with it once he was at the top - and to make any move beforehand would've blown his cover.
It would have been an impressively "deep cover" over his many years in dirty dirty FIFA, the dirty dirty world of Olympics bids and (we know know) dirty dirty IAAF
Sport, politics. Politics, sport. And ne'er the twain do meet.
According to some. Who are generally in the IOC, IAAF, FIFA etc etc.
Even so, perhaps now isn't such a good time to start singling out Russia as the Lance of athletics. There are clearly other nations involved in their own sweet way. It's just that Russia aren't exactly Mr Popular right now in certain parts of the world, who also happen to be kicking up a lot of hoo-ha about doping.
Sat opposite a certain "player" on the train this morning - looked (for the first time) like a man with the troubles of the world on his shoulders. I doubt there are any answers and the chalice must feel pretty poisoned right now.
The possibility I'm suggesting is that Coe has played a similar game - essentially don't warn your enemy you're coming, keep your cards close to your chest, sneak up quietly and trip then up when they least expect it...
Some pertinent facts about Seb Coe...
-He's been a part of the IAAF since 2003, a VP since 2007.
-He lavished praise on Diack, a man who has shown to have run perhaps the most corrupt regime in Sports, which is saying something.
-He was the head of the FIFA ethics division (surely an oxymoron?) while vast corruption was going on and reported nothing.
-He has refused to give up his Nike consulting agreement and somehow has convinced himself it's not a Conflict of Interest, despite anyone with a half a brain telling him that is not the case.
-When faced with the reality of these allegations, he initially blamed the journalist, trying to take a holier than thou approach of defending his sport, when the reality is that the regime he was a part of may have single handily killed his sport...for good.
I'd say his days are numbered TBH, either he's playing the long game so well, even he hasn't realised what his end game is, he's the unluckiest man in the world that doesn't choose friends well, or...He's a vile corrupt Apparatchik, and should be that last person in charge of any investigation into ethics
the reality is that the regime he was a part of may have single handily killed his sport...for good.
That's pretty melodramatic.
the reality is that the regime he was a part of may have single handily killed his sport...for good.
Is a little melodramatic. Be interesting to see how bad it gets and what the fallout is though. I doubt you'll ever get the same abandonment of the sport from the bigger sponsors in the way that cycling had.