[Closed] Atheists/Agnostics/Sceptics - Religious questions you want answered

what do you personally consider the strongest ontological argument for God ?

😉

What tyres for a deity?

I have a few

Why does Christianity celebrate the birth of Jesus on a specific day but his death and resurrection, completely miraculous and certainly a more notable event that being born, is celebrated on a different day each year over about a month? Did no one remember when it happened?

Why does the catholic church need accumulate so much wealth for itself and how is that compatible with their beliefs of helping the poor.

Given that all religions say that only the faithful go to heaven and the rest to hell when you turn up at the pearly gates the leaders of the other religions will always out vote the one you did believe. Therefore everyone is going to hell. So why bother with a faith?

If religion is all about peace and caring for your neighbours why is it the biggest since cause of war ever known?

Question formed through growing up in NI through the Troubles:

If Protestants and Catholics are both supposed to believe in you but argue over minor differences in "the rules", do you not think it might have been a sign of good leadership to drop in and sort the confusion out so they could at least have argued over politics instead?

convert Dionysus and Mythras didn't come from Bethlehem.

Most of the Jewish Messiah figures from 1st century bce and ce didn't come from Bethlehem.

My normal 1st question to a christian is have you brought your pump multi tool and patches or are you expecting me to do all the fixing?

My internet 1st question is please define your terms what do you mean by god? what are god's attributes?

oh yes my first question on seeing the thread title on the OP was why on earth have you started this thread?

SaxonRider - Member
@Cougar (and anyone else wondering):

Right now, I am just soliciting questions. But my intention is to "answer" them as best I can in short order.

I hope neither of you mind others chipping in?
I'll shut up for a bit if so.

convert Dionysus and Mythras didn't come from Bethlehem.

Oh Jesus 🙄

😉
No, we are just talking about Jesus here. Why does Chinese Jesus look Chinese, West European Jesus look Arian etc. Yet all the baby Jesuses (Jesi?) were born in Bethlehem according to the accompanying fanbook.

Who decides which bits of the Bible still have to be followed and which are no longer 'culturally relevant'? E.g beards, stoning people to death, cursing fig trees.

And the classic question that I don't think can ever be repeated enough. Why is God such an asshole sometimes? Who benefited from the whole Job thing?

Is the pope really the anti-Christ or just a false prophet?

"The fact that every culture has their own version of the Robin Hood story of a local (to them) taking on the local rulers is really quite different."
many cultures have their own version of the Jesus story of a local (to them )mystical figure .

Is it time (is it possible) to reinvent Christianity so that the stories of the teachings of Jesus can be taken as they were intended, without asking people to literally believe in this below and an actual god that answers our prayers and makes changes in the world.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic/christian Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

If you are an atheist, Man created God.

All the emotions, faults and failings attributed to religion can be seen in non religious aspects of our human nature.
As can all the positives, obviously.

Attributing these failings solely to one section of humanity (the religious, for instance) whilst failing to acknowledge their universality is sloppy logic.
🙂

nedrapier - Member

Is it time (is it possible) to reinvent Christianity so that the stories of the teachings of Jesus can be taken as they were intended, without asking people to literally believe in this below and an actual god that answers our prayers and makes changes in the world.

Why bother?

I haven't read every reply but it seems a lot of people doubt god because bad things happen. I don't really understand this as it is relevant to the existence or not of a god. If a god were to exist then why would that god need to intervene in all things that happen and why would that god need to make what we currently see as good things happen and prevent bad.

I don't think what people believe as a result of their belief in god is the most that interesting part of the debate as this changes with time. What doesn't seem to change though is that a number of people for reasons I personally don't understand need to believe in a god or gods. It appears widespread across the world and throughout human history.

Oh, I've thought of one.

Genesis.
Day 1: create light.
Day 4: create light source.

How's that work?

If a god were to exist then why would that god need to intervene in all things that happen and why would that god need to make what we currently see as good things happen and prevent bad.

Moreover, if that were the case, why would it be worthy of worship?

The Bible is a selection from a wider collection of contemporaneous religious writing.
Why does this selection form the canon of Christianity?
Why were other writings not included?
Why has there been no substantial revision or addition to the canon in the past 2000 years?

The Bible is a selection from a wider collection of contemporaneous religious writing.
Why does this selection form the canon of Christianity?
Why were other writings not included?
Why has there been no substantial revision or addition to the canon in the past 2000 years?

(Second Coming)

jimjam - Member

Why bother?

because he said some good things, but all the dogma that's been wrapped round it and all the shitty stuff that's been done as a result of it means that it's impossible for many people to mentally get anywhere near the good stuff.

If a god were to exist then why would that god need to intervene in all things that happen and why would that god need to make what we currently see as good things happen and prevent bad

the defence is to say we dont understand the plan or we can only see god "as if looking through a glass darkly" [ bible reference] - ie they have no explanation you just have to trust god has a plan and its a great one.

St Thomas Aquinas is noted as dealing with this - if god is a loving and all powerful then why is their pain and suffering?

convert - Member
The point he was making was that every culture's 'variant' of Jesus comes from Bethlehem and hung out in that part of the world but is an aesthetic mirror of the people who are being told the story.

We know that Jesus existed, and roughly whereabouts he came from.
But we also know that people pick and choose from other cultures.

If a white Jesus puts bums on pews and eases worries as to why this foreigner is better than our own local Gods then why wouldn't they?
🙂

Oh, I've thought of one.

Genesis.
Day 1: create light.
Day 4: create light source.

How's that work?

inventing a tap isn't much use if you haven't invented water yet...

Genesis.
Day 1: create light.
Day 4: create light source.

How's that work?

Moreover; if a religious person believes in evolution they must also acknowledge that that element of the bible is at best misinformed or at worst a pack of lies. How do you continue to utilise and take guidance from a 'book' that you appreciate is wrong in parts without doubting the remainder.

We know that Jesus existed

How do you continue to utilise and take guidance from a 'book' that you appreciate is wrong in parts without doubting the remainder.

I also find this strange as to me it is either a metaphor or its true
if its both you just end up discussing which bits are " real" and which bits are not "real"

nedrapier - Member

jimjam - Member

Why bother?

because he said some good things, but all the dogma that's been wrapped round it and all the shitty stuff that's been done as a result of it means that it's impossible for many people to mentally get anywhere near the good stuff.

We don't need to repackage, redesign or rethink Christianity (or other faiths). We can look at it objectively as people in the past struggling to make sense of the world, establish rules for navigating through it and telling stories which embody archetypal lessons for important themes.

because he said some good things, but all the dogma that's been wrapped round it and all the shitty stuff that's been done as a result of it means that it's impossible for many people to mentally get anywhere near the good stuff.

Hmm.. to understand the good stuff, I dunno, maybe we could ask, like, a priest or something.. you know, someone who's studied it...

Why does Chinese Jesus look Chinese, West European Jesus look Arian etc.

Why d'you think? Cos the artists wanted to draw someone who looked like them. Obvious no? Probably weren't interested in ethnological accuracy.

. to understand the good stuff, I dunno, maybe we could ask, like, a priest or something.. you know, someone who's studied it.

I was married to a Catholic for 6 years and am agnostic, so have some experience of this. Off the top of my head:

How can you reconcile Catholic morals with your own life (so gay friends, etc)

How does praying help you?

Ok - I've got one for you SaxonRider.

What does the Church think about the God gene hypothesis? Is it dismissed out of hand or is it even discussed?

definitely not you then Molly

No, definitely not me, I don't have any answers and don't offer any. All I do is suggest that we aim to understand others points of view and reconcile, rather than obliterate them.

Junkyard - lazarus
We know that Jesus existed
I missed that proof - what is it ?

Seems pretty nailed on, tbh.

Not just the contemporary accounts by people with nothing to gain or lose, but the fact that several pretty similar records of details of his life seem to have emerged within a generation or so of his death.

Fascinating stuff, but basically most historians are in agreement he existed.

Is this thread a metaphor for Christianity? We all sit around asking difficult questions and never get any answers.

Rusty Spanner - Member

Fascinating stuff, but basically most historians are in agreement he existed.

There's some suggestion that someone like him existed around the time he was supposed to have lived, roughly. That is to say someone in Roman occupied Israel roughly 2000 years ago was a bit of a troublemaker, had something of a following, was critical of the establishment and probably got crucified.

I read somewhere that it was likely John the Baptist, and that his actions were conflated into the Jesus myth. As I have posted before, Jesus was most likely a bit of a Judean Gerry Adams.

Why d'you think? Cos the artists wanted to draw someone who looked like them. Obvious no? Probably weren't interested in ethnological accuracy.

Yes, pretty obvious. But that's part of my basic distrust of the whole thing. Another snippet of untruth to package the story together for the great unwashed.

It would be interesting to know how litterally the whole lot was taken over time. If you take all of it as a metaphor (the story of Jesus was just intended as a mataphor for how to lead your life; heaven and hell are just metaphors for the way you will be remembered by the living etc) its all a bit easier to swallow.

Is this thread a metaphor for Christianity? We all sit around asking difficult questions and never get any answers.

arf! 😀

convert

Moreover; if a religious person believes in evolution they must also acknowledge that that element of the bible is at best misinformed or at worst a pack of lies. How do you continue to utilise and take guidance from a 'book' that you appreciate is wrong in parts without doubting the remainder.

I can have a shot at this one. The creation story is a parable / made simple for folk with little understanding of science. the 8 days (??) is not to be taken literally but to be the 8 stages of the creation of the earth and of evolution. so first the Sun came into being after the big bang, then the planet cooled, then primitive life forms emerged etc etc. I don't buy it but thats the explanation given as far as I understand

Can I get a special dispensation to eat stuff that lives in water but does not have fins and scales? I'm thinking about scallops particularly. I promise not to have any tatoos or round off the edges of my beard.

http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Things_The_Bible_Bans,_But_You_Do_Anyway

Fascinating stuff, but basically most historians are in agreement he existed.

Yes, aparently so.

But him actually being the son of god and the walking on water elements are slightly more dodge.

We know that Jesus existed

I missed that proof - what is it ?

I fully believe the person existed. The whole story around his background I don't believe.

Or, in other words - why are some of us religious and some not, when at some point in the past our ancestors were all similarly exposed. Why scepticism for some and not others?

Yes, pretty obvious. But that's part of my basic distrust of the whole think.

Not for me. Perfectly possible for artists to paint whatever the hell they like as pure fantasy. How the church as an organisation worked in the past and how people responded to the ideas is purely a human issue, not much to do with the basis of religion.

I hope SaxonRider's writing a book: Religion for Atheists.

jimjam - Member 
Is this thread a metaphor for Christianity? We all sit around asking difficult questions and never get any answers.

It's not the thread that's the metaphor, its STW as a whole. Chipps and Mark as JC & John the Baptist, bringing a new mag when others already existed. The forum upgrade is the Heaven we aspire to.

Not just the contemporary accounts by people with nothing to gain or lose,

but the fact that several pretty similar records of details of his life seem to have emerged within a generation or so of his death.

No offence but its ike being tld the EU is undemocratic folk start to believe it but canno texpain anythign abut hiw it is elected or formed

There are no details there at all - no offence

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

Yes, aparently so.

molgrips - Member
Hmm.. to understand the good stuff, I dunno, maybe we could ask, like, a priest or something.. you know, someone who's studied it...

If God does not exist, why would a believer have anymore expertise or a better perspective than a non believing expert in the field?

I thought the historians consensus nowadays was that the biblical figure of Jesus is really an amalgamation of 3 or 4 jewish prophets? and actually based mainly in what is now Lebanon not Israel

I can have a shot at this one. The creation story is a parable / made simple for folk with little understanding of science. the 8 days (??) is not to be taken literally but to be the 8 stages of the creation of the earth and of evolution. so first the Sun came into being after the big bang, then the planet cooled, then primitive life forms emerged etc etc. I don't buy it but thats the explanation given as far as I understand

Serpents, apples, ribs and dust?

Perhaps they publish an appendix and hand it out at Sunday school indicating which bits are intended to be taken literally and which are just there for the dribblers in the corner who need the Janet and John version of how the world works.

Lots of "big questions" above, mostly unanswerable, but the fundamental question for me is simply:

What influence does your faith in God have on your actions?

I lost interest in all the other stuff as a largely unanswerable belief structure, but if you have faith and it has no bearing on your actions, then what is the point of your faith?

James (letter) sums it up perfectly:

"But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

And this was the big debate in the early church. James lost btw.

Why? Just why do you think you need religion?

And how come your are so tough on gays but so much more relaxed about the mixed fibres and the shellfish?

If God does not exist, why would a believer have anymore expertise or a better perspective than a non believing expert in the field?

God may not exist, but religion definitely does. Jesus may or may not have existed but a bunch of teachings attributed to him definitely do.

Junky, this is quite an interesting read.... [url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died ]Guardian. [/url]

There are no details there at all - no offence

Non taken by me mate.
🙂

As I say, complete atheist.
I find the fact I reckon that in all probability Jesus existed just makes the whole thing much more interesting.

I don't buy it but thats the explanation given as far as I understand

As I understand it, it's taken by most people as a parable, with no basis in fact.

How does praying help you?

I think I can field this one.

Irrespective of whether god exists or not the act of prayer is a way of focusing your thoughts, of 'pulling your socks up.' You pray, you feel better. In essence it's the placebo effect.

Seems pretty nailed on, tbh.

Unfortunate choice of words when talking about Jesus.

the 8 days (??) is not to be taken literally

isn't this modern revisionism? These days a lot of Xtians believe that the stories are allegorical, but as far as I'm aware this wasn't always the case. It was intended to be the literal word of god, an explanation for how the world actually came to be.

That's probably another question for the OP actually.

As the god of the gaps rational gets squeezed out I wonder if religion will embrace the singularity. Or rather, that it's already happened. That would actually allow their beliefs to align with science (ish) rather than be at odds with it.

I thought the historians consensus nowadays was that the biblical figure of Jesus is really an amalgamation of 3 or 4 jewish prophets?

Not that I'm any expert, but I've suspected this for years. There may or may not have been an actual Jesus, but once entered into folklore this is how stories work. Tales get embellished in the telling, the feeding of the 5,000 probably started out when they had a day out and someone thought to bring a packed lunch. Someone somewhere does something cool and by the third retelling it's attributed to that nice Jesus fella.

molgrips - Member
If God does not exist, why would a believer have anymore expertise or a better perspective than a non believing expert in the field?
God may not exist, but religion definitely does. Jesus may or may not have existed but a bunch of teachings attributed to him definitely do.

I know Christianity exists.
My question is why would a non believing expert have a view less valid that that of a believer?

My question is why would a non believing expert have a view less valid that that of a believer?

I dunno. I think they probably would.

I said priest because they are generally ones who have studied these things, but also I was being a bit cheeky.

Don't have any religious questions.

Got a few statements though, obvs...

That would actually allow their beliefs to align with science (ish) rather than be at odds with it.

Many people, maybe most in the West, already have done that. Including the Pope it seems.

Atheists seem to have this singular idea of what 'religion' is as if all religious people are of one mind. That's really not the case.

Molgrips
I dunno. I think they probably would.

And you know that thing I mentioned about attributing traits to certain groups, even though those traits are universal?

And it being spectacularly unhelpful?

Atheists seem to have this singular idea of what 'religion' is as if all religious people are of one mind.

🙂

Bang to rights. Although I did say 'seem'. Meaning many of the ones I have been speaking to about this, largely on here, seem [i]frequently[/i] to display that trait.

A few questions around the subject of faith in a god:
What benefits does your faith give you?
Do you ever have doubts about your faith in god?
If your god made its'self visible and therefore proved its'existence once and for all would you then expect everyone to follow it?
If the god thing was proven to exist would it not defeat the concept of faith?
Is it just faith in [u]something[/u] that you need?

Don't have any religious questions.

That's not strictly true, Woppit. A year or so ago, you asked about religious experience, and how that affected a person's (my) notion of God.

That's a pretty good question IME.

As to those of you who are asking about answers, as I said a numbers of posts ago, I will be trying to answer. I just thought that, [b]through the years, so many questions/issues/objections/arguments have been raised regarding religion - and Christianity in particular - that it would be helpful to gather them into one place so that (a) common theme(s) can be discerned, and a realistic, coherent attempt made at responding.[/b]

Incidentally, I know that some of you know where I am coming from in religious terms, but I don't think I have ever explicitly stated it on here. Would it be fair to ask that people not assume? 🙂

At what age is a child free to decide for them-self?

Would it be fair to ask that people not assume?

Not really, no.
You might as well ask them not to breathe.
🙂

It's that human nature thing again.
People are going to make assumptions, it's what they do.

As a child i had many questions. Avid catholic, became an alter boy, raised by nuns in a convent school etc. No one could answer them. By the age of 11 i'd given up. For several years i was angry and would be a tit towards believers (like a few on here still seem to do) but for the last 20 years i'm happy to let people believe what they want.
I do still ahve a few questions that i'd like an answer to. THe deep ones will never be answered to my satisfaction but i'd like to know what the hell God was playing at when in created wasps. Also, if Jesus was indeed a carpenter (fashioned his own cross) and knew he was to die for our sins - why didn't he make his cross from balsa wood? Easier to transport and a doddle to bbreak when the Romans had gone to bed. Lastly, who put the bomp in the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?

why didn't he make his cross from balsa wood?

Balsa trees are South American.. doubt they'd have had access. Sorry 🙂

Would it be fair to ask that people not assume?

It'd be fair to ask.

Also, optimistic.

(-:

Incidentally, I know that some of you know where I am coming from in religious terms, but I don't think I have ever explicitly stated it on here. Would it be fair to ask that people not assume?

I have no idea personally and don't really care. I find theological debates interesting.

. For several years i was angry and would be a tit towards believers (like a few on here still seem to do)

dunno if thats aimed at me or not but I will answer. I am able to separate thought from deed so while I think religionists are a sandwich short of a picnic I do not treat them any different from anyone else. Indeed being aware of my own prejudices I probably in my professional life treat them better in some ways to ensure I am not being biased.

for example I will make certain that we know the religious beliefs of any dying person in my care so as to arrange the necessary spiritual care for them something many of my colleagues forget to do and I also am the only person on the ward as far as I know who knows the correct way to deal with the dead bodies of people of different faiths.

Its the separation of thought and deed or the setting aside of prejudices to ensure actions are fair.

I do the same for Tories 🙂

Balsa trees are South American.. doubt they'd have had access. Sorry

Trade routes across the globe had been established before Jesus surely - he could have put an order in 😀 Or cork, it's light too. Or turned water into balsa

Seems too late to post this now but I'd hate to waste it " Jesus is but a fable that has been agreed upon" or in Timothy's case deliberately twisted.

saxonrider lots of questions but no answers so far, not a taunt but an observation to justify me adding another that follows on from define god.

how do you monotheistic-ally (assumption i know) deal with the existence of EL, Yahweh and Asherah in the OT?

So, the whole walk on water thing, were Jesus and his crew the first surfers?

tjagain
dunno if thats aimed at me or not but I will answer.

I haven't read the thread so no, not aimed at you or anyone in particular. If you've been a tit to others for their beliefs on previous threads (which is what i was referring to) then yes, it was 😀 If people want to believe in this stuff then who am i (or anyone) to try and change their minds. It's one of those situations you have to learn for yourself, if so inclined imo.

What does your faith mean to you?
Are your life experiences affected by your belief, or does your belief affect your experiences?

Whilst a bigger question, I feel it's important that a person with faith is able to define their God/Gods/ Higher Power, so: How is do you define your 'God'

How do you feel about continually trying to answer questions of your faith to people who berate you for having a belief structure?
On a similar vein, why do so many people think they've read the Bible, yet not grasped its intent and still adhere to the face value of the metaphors it contains?

That'll do for starters, thanks OP, watching with interest to see how this goes. By default, im a glass half full kinda guy, but experience tells me...

SR ... I know you're a Theologian, where as, I'm just some fella who enjoys the odd service here or there.

I was asking to join your "Team" for answering questions.

🙂

why didn't he make his cross from balsa wood

Wait a minute, I didn't think the non believers were supposed to be answering the questions on this thread. That one wasn't too hard, so I might try a few more.

Balsa trees are South American.. doubt they'd have had access. Sorry

In the complete absence of any proof, what actually makes your god more real than other religions gods?

If Adam and eve are real and evolution is just a theory, why you can observe the flu virus mutating in real time in vitro, thus requiring a new flu jab each year.

Discuss, I'll fetch the cheese board.

And how come the son of God, born in the middle east, is white and has a Spanish name?

funkmasterp - Member
So, the whole walk on water thing, were Jesus and his crew the first surfers?

[s]Charlie[/s] Jesus don't surf.

Jesus died for our sins. Why did anyone have to die for our sins?

Why don't priests/rabbis/imams etc just start every sentence with 'allegedly' ?

Solves all disputes.