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They're normally in a different bit of the service station car park.
Their wide ranging network of super chargers and integration with the vehicle so you don't have to fanny around with various apps and other such nonsense for the remaining also wide ranging bits and pieces of collective assorted network that is being developed by the rest.
Their wide ranging network of super chargers and integration with the vehicle so you don’t have to fanny around with various apps and other such nonsense for the remaining also wide ranging bits and pieces of collective assorted network that is being developed by the rest.
I’ve one card that covers pretty much every network no need for Apps, it gives me access to thousands of chargers.
In what sense?
The buy a car, have a charging network for you that's fast and reliable, available everywhere.
There's a good few reviews online such as Harry's Garage, Pistonheads, Mat whatshischops etc. All commenting that charging via Tesla system is more reliable
The buy a car, have a charging network for you that’s fast and reliable, available everywhere.
Nearest current Tesla one for me is 35 miles away, there is a new one 15 miles away that’s not open yet or I can access the dozens between them. Tesla have about 20% of the chargers in the U.K. which isn’t too bad but it’s shrinking.
Loads of data here of the networks and numbers.
https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/
Seems it’s a longtime since I last looked. Tesla have 8% of the chargers across the U.K. many of which are the slower chargers.
Assuming you don't live in a flat......charging points near your residence are not a concern unless your conditioned to think that you'll be free charging far into the future.
I’ve one card that covers pretty much every network no need for Apps, it gives me access to thousands of chargers.
So your car can find all those chargers....tell you if they are currently in working order and/or occupied and direct you to the most efficient route to take advantage of the on route chargers.
when Toyota make this kind of announcement, they mean business.
Hydrogen looking like a longer shot than ever now. I don't think we've really moved towards a hydrogen economy at all in the last decade, have we?
I’ve one card that covers pretty much every network no need for Apps, it gives me access to thousands of chargers
Of which a large proportion will be out of service (Ecotricity) or there is just one fast charger at a location behind a pub somewhere. Also your car nav system cannot tell you which of those are in service or how many at each location are unoccupied like the Tesla system can (zap-map cant either). By-the-way I'm a Hyundai Kona, soon to be e-Niro, driver so no Tesla fanboi but I can appreciate that the non-Tesla charging infrastructure is years behind Tesla. Hopefully the likes of Instavolt , Shell Re-charge and Gridserve will change that.
So your car can find all those chargers….tell you if they are currently in working order and/or occupied and direct you to the most efficient route to take advantage of the on route chargers.
Of course not just like my diesel couldn’t tell me if a garage had diesel pumps working. However, zap-map can which is on my phone, that said I’ve no idea if the car can as I’ve not needed to check it does show chargers on the sat nav though as I see the icons.
Assuming you don’t live in a flat……charging points near your residence are not a concern unless your conditioned to think that you’ll be free charging far into the future.
What? It’s an example of them not being everywhere, like I say seems they now have a tiny percentage of chargers.
Of course not just like my diesel couldn’t tell me if a garage had diesel pumps working.
When each filling station has at least 2-3 diesel pumps and they are occupied for about 5 mins at a time its not exactly necessary is it?
So seems dracs EV is like his iPad. Completely infallible.
What? It’s an example of them not being everywhere, like I say seems they now have a tiny percentage of chargers.
I assume when your away from home you'll be in transport corridors.
I assume you don't live on a motorway.
It seems logical to start the journey charged from home and then use the chargers in transport corredors . This works as the car works out where is good to charge based on the network.
So seems dracs EV is like his iPad. Completely infallible.
No, not at all you just keep bringing up issues that were once a problem which no longer are as bad.
When each filling station has at least 2-3 diesel pumps and they are occupied for about 5 mins at a time its not exactly necessary is it?
I’m talking about having no diesel working pumps. It happens, rare, but it happens chargers being out of service isn’t as bad as some make out either. They can be occupied of course.
I assume when your away from home you’ll be in transport corridors.
I do the A1 which only has 1 Tesla network between the main city and furthest town.
Just checked, 1 between Newcastle and Edinburgh which isn’t live yet.
It seems logical to start the journey charged from home and then use the chargers in transport corredors . This works as the car works out where is good to charge based on the network.
It seems logical that it may not always be fully charged or that I’d rather use the free providers so I may need to charge on route or at the destination.
Ah I’ve just realised who I’m replying to I’ll leave it at that
It happens, rare, but it happens chargers being out of service isn’t as bad as some make out either.
From my experience I beg to differ. A browse through zap-map shows plenty out of service. For example the two Ecotricity chargers at our local motorway services have been down for over 6 months and the Shell Recharge CCS plug at the same services has only just been repaired after months of being out of service. Two Geniepoint chargers at separat elocaitons near us cut out after 20 mins and 5 mins charging respectively when I tried them (not a vehicle issue it works with plenty others).
Like I say not as bad as some make out.
I’m talking about having no diesel working pumps. It happens, rare, but it happens chargers being out of service isn’t as bad as some make out either.
Rare nee freek occurance. I think I've had more flat tires than examples of the above. Yet uponthedowns single point spot check real time shows out of order chargers to be an actual thing.
I’d rather use the free providers
Thats a decision you've made. Based on cost not convenance or logical sense for the use case.
However, zap-map can which is on my phone,
Is that an app on your phone ? For the service that doesn't need an app.on your phone to do what Tesla's do ?
Fwiw I'm pro EV . I see the positives of them . But the USP for Tesla is the integration thing. Other manufacturers will catch up with the cars I'm sure but they are trying to buy their way into the charge network to try and compete by buying other people's network companies....... That will result in a piecemeal system rather than a network
I use both Tesla and The others, I have a Shell Recharge card and it's actually very good, among others it has Osprey Network which are reliable and usually there's 2 50kw chargers, then it has Ionity Network which appear to be on the main corridors evenly spread around the country with multiple 350kw chargers in a Tesla stylee. Drac has a point in the catch up respect.
I’d think about buying at 200. Sold all my shares at 200 before they split so this would be psychologically okay for me!
Guess Tesla got caught up with the general rush to equities. You never know with Tesla though.
Having just driven anew model 3, I’d say it’s still crap. The interior is low rent, cheap plastics. The panel gaps on the bonnet and wing are appalling compared to my 17y old 3 series, never mind my I3 and the paint thickness on the door lower edges beggars belief. It drives well, but I wouldn’t want to own one.
Really? The i3 dash is made out of recycled chopsticks and the gear stick is an unintuitive abomination. Then after a few miles it starts burning hydrocarbons. Half baked greenwashed POS.
The p100d model X I piloted for a few minutes was a proper car!
Ionity Network which appear to be on the main corridors evenly spread around the country with multiple 350kw chargers in a Tesla stylee
Unless you have subscription with Ionity they charge 69p per kWh which makes EV travel more expensive than petrol so for that reason I avoid them. Most other rapid charge providers charge around 35p per kWh.
But I did write some of the code for one of the first content management systems used by El Reg a very long time ago.
Ace. That’s a decent claim to fame.
Unless you have subscription with Ionity they charge 69p per kWh which makes EV travel more expensive than petrol so for that reason I avoid them. Most other rapid charge providers charge around 35p per kWh.
Ah right, they're all free for me. On that point, I thought everyone past a certain purchase date had to pay to use the Tesla network these days? again it's free for me (I get free charging included in my car subscription)
Just checked with the Audi Charge Card site, I have access to 10,466 chargers in the U.K. from that one card before I need to use any of the other networks, more and more are contactless payments anyway.
Then after a few miles it starts burning hydrocarbons.
I'm sorry - what?
Found a video of the Tesla body fitters and QC apprenticeship scheme in action 🤣🤣
On charging, ecotricity should be evicted from their prime locations and replaced by a well maintained high charging rate contactless card provider. They were rubbish 6 years ago when I tried them 3 times and then gave up.
I wouldn’t be buying one because they are actively trying to stop people repairing their own cars, they charge a fortune for anything out of warranty and have been “bricking” cars which have been crash damaged and repaired privately in the USA - removing all fast charge ability remotely - nearly like bricking an iPhone.
They want to make more money repairing them and fixing them and don’t want anyone else touching them as it’ll mean they can be undercut.
On charging, ecotricity should be evicted from their prime locations and replaced by a well maintained high charging rate contactless card provider. They were rubbish 6 years ago when I tried them 3 times and then gave up.
Ecotricity are a joke company Its easier to ask which of their chargers are working rather than which aren't. Unfortunately and incredibly they've just had their franchise for motorway services renewed. Anyway some good news. Instavolt have just installed 8 rapid chargers at Corley Services on the M6 hopefully more to come. Also there is usually an Instavolt chargepoint not far off any motorway you happen to be using.
Just checked with the Audi Charge Card site, I have access to 10,466 chargers in the U.K. from that one card before I need to use any of the other networks, more and more are contactless payments anyway
Well that's absolutely marvelous for you but no bloody use if of the 5-10 or so chargers on the route you happen to be taking that day 20% are down and another 20% are already occupied when you get there and you have no reliable real time info on what their status is. I'm in the same real world of EV you are and I'm telling everyone its not all beer and skittles for EV charging if you are a non-Tesla user undertaking a lot of long journeys. The Tesla supercharger network may not be super extensive but don't forget Tesla drivers can access non-Tesla chargepoints and we can't access any of theirs. If I didn't need a mid range SUV (to carry a large dog) I'd be driving a Tesla Model 3. If I could wait until Q4 2021 to take delivery of a Model Y I would but I cant't so that's why I have the next best thing coming in a couple of weeks an e-Niro.
If I could wait until Q4 2021 to take delivery of a Model Y I would but I cant’t so that’s why I have the next best thing coming in a couple of weeks an e-Niro.
So you should be in the ionity club then, much like Tesla owners are in the tesla supercharger club, Kia are shareholders in Ionity. Recent Tesla buyers pay 28ppkwh at tesla superchargers according to my google skills, you'll maybe pay something similar with ionity. ionity might not yet quite have the coverage that tesla do, but they're not far off. I'd be interested how this pans out for you as I might be in an eniro in the near future (currently in a model3).
So you should be in the ionity club then, much like Tesla owners are in the tesla supercharger club, Kia are shareholders in Ionity.
Well you'd think so wouldn't you however using Kia's universal charge card KiaCharge which allegedly "gives you the freedom to access most UK charging stations – with no monthly subscription fee." charging at Ionity rapid chargers costs wait for it.........69p per kWh which is exactly the same as it costs Joe public! You couldn't make it up!
I wish Tesla would do an estate car rather than slope the boot roofline down like that on the model y. Seems a waste of space. I have kids, bikes, dogs (although between dogs at the mo) etc and am able to fill up a Skoda kodiaq completely for trips to the in-laws, holidays and even regularly for short local day trips (when those were a thing!) with a bike trailer and bikes etc. I don’t need a tesla pick up truck either!
Porsche have just released an Estate version of the Taycan.
rather than slope the boot roofline down like that on the model y.
Squared off backs of cars are not an aerodynamic shape, killing range. Also very few people actually want estates so it's not worth the investment
Electric berlingos are available. Range is terrible
Tesla seem to be destroying their environmental credentials by pushing the proprietary charging network. As seen in this thread it's hugely damaging
Why the hell isn't the government mandating a compatible charging network? Oh wait, I know why.
Tesla seem to be destroying their environmental credentials by pushing the proprietary charging network. As seen in this thread it’s hugely damaging
Tesla have said any other manufacturer can use their network if they want to. Nobody seems to want to take them up on it.
I wonder why? Perhaps they want to be seen to be co-operative without actually being so.
Maybe but its certainly not in Tesla's interests for the legacy manufacturers to move too quickly to BEVs because selling them carbon credits is Tesla's biggest profit centre making Tesla billions
Tesla could easily fit contactless option for non Tesla uses but they choose not to. Other manufacturers have got together to setup up networks, Tesla haven’t.
Other manufacturers have got together to setup up networks, Tesla haven’t.
Tesla got their shit together early and realised that you don't sell cars without infrastructure in place.
Yet another area where the big manufacturers are having to play catch up. - and their solution to "setting up" a network as you put it mostly seems to be buying other people's infrastructure either by license or purchasing the company lockstock
I wouldn’t be buying one because they are actively trying to stop people repairing their own cars
Of course, nobody apart from Tesla can fix them.
Oh wait...
And what’s this, someone actually set up a business doing Tesla and EV repairs?
https://youtube.com/c/ElectrifiedGarage
Maybe in the UK as well?
https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/electric-vehicle-servicing/
I love how in typical STW fashion this thread has gone well away from the original topic to be a thread about electric car charging.
On the original topic, I'm with Terry Smith -
‘Even if they are electric vehicles, they are still cars and the car industry in general isn’t one we ever have or ever would invest in.’
The whole auto industry is a car crash at the moment (see what I did there), no-one knows who'll succeed (probably the Chinese and S Koreans), and any bet on Tesla is just that, a bet, even though on the actual car front their technology lead means they are managing to sell cars designed for the US market in Europe (large expensive 4 door saloons with interiors you'd think were poor in a 1970s Datsun - would you buy that if it had a petrol engine?) which is quite some achievement. And the value in their other energy technology is definitely not worth the current share valuation.
In answer to the orignal question. I don't like the shares at any price but the cars I like at 15% below the current price.
So, whilst give the car a bit of a polish I thought I’d play with the sat nav, seems the e-Tron does give you the status of chargers including price. However, it is a bit iffy as it doesn’t show some chargers and not always able to report on the status. I’ll get the software updated once things open up a bit more.
Would I buy shares in Tesla? No, I think that’s a missed opportunity but I’d look at the battery companies who are planning production, there’s one in Blyth going through the final stages of planning.
Plus America they love them as you know it’s American.
Is that why it’s very difficult to buy a Tesla in many states, because they sell direct through their own dealers, rather than through franchises, and they’ve been stopped from opening dealerships?
Tesla could easily fit contactless option for non Tesla uses but they choose not to.
Even tho I have absolutely no idea (and I suspect neither do you) about the detail of tesla charger hardware and software (I use them. I have a Tesla), this just reads like absolute made up b0llx to me. Easily retro fitting contactless payment to what? thousands, tens of thousands of chargers worldwide. LOL