[Closed] Assange.

oooh theyve granted asylum

so will the sas storm the building?

or will the popos just pull over his limo on the way to heathrow?

eaither way i bet that argentinian president is hoping for some drama and preparing for a press conference to denounce us imperialists

edit: maybe its part of a bigger plan to start a fight with ecuador, is there oil under the galapagos?

Asylum granted...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

kimbers - Member
or will the popos just pull over his limo on the way to heathrow?

Diplomatic vehicles can be stopped but not searched, but once he gets out of the car at the airport...

I wonder what the next move is by Assange.

How will he physically leave the embassy?

Or is being an Ambassador the only method to avoid being arrested?

Diplomatic vehicles can be stopped but not searched, but once he gets out of the car at the airport...

Sorry if hes pulled at the airport on the way then I question how ****ing shit how democracy really is. Yes he does have a charge to answer but we as a nation can refuse the extradition if there is other information that may lead to any form of unfair trial etc.

This country sucks balls on immigration, taxes and human rights. Rendition-specialists..

xiphon - Member
I wonder what the next move is by Assange.

How will he physically leave the embassy?

Or is being an Ambassador the only method to avoid being arrested?

If he and the Ecuadorian government have any sense they'll let the Met make the next move.

Does the Star Trek's transporter actually work?

Scuzz - completely forgotten about ferries and the chunnel.... good idea!

What about planting some cops dressed as Swedish bimbos just outside his bedroom window?

chunnel or

[img] [/img]

but then the US could arrange this:

[img] [/img]

Who needs the Federation - we have Dr Who and his Tardis. He could whip back in time and sort out that condom incident too.

Well if we can't send someone to Sweden to face charges then where can you send them. If he wants to fight extradition from Sweden he will have a very good case. Below is from the Swedish Governments web site.

Extradition may not be granted for military or political offences. Nor may extradition be granted if there is reason to fear that the person whose extradition is requested runs a risk - on account of his or her ethnic origins, membership of a particular social group or religious or political beliefs - of being subjected to persecution threatening his or her life or freedom, or is serious in some other respect. Nor, moreover, may extradition be granted if it would be contrary to fundamental humanitarian principles, e.g. in consideration of a person's youth or the state of this person's health. Finally, in principle, extradition may not be granted if a judgment has been pronounced for the same offence in this country. Nor may extradition be granted if the offence would have been statute-barred by limitation under Swedish law.

Scuzz - completely forgotten about ferries and the chunnel.... good idea!

Nope. You have to go through several checkpoints and I've been asked to leave my vehicle on a couple of occasions.

Sorry if hes pulled at the airport on the way then I question how **** shit how democracy really is. Yes he does have a charge to answer but we as a nation can refuse the extradition if there is other information that may lead to any form of unfair trial etc.

Are you hora or kaesae? He is wanted for questioning for rape in Sweden. If there is any EVIDENCE of him going to be sent immediately to the electric chair in the USA, please post some links. There is reason to say it's a possibility but unless there's evidence how can that be considered in court?

Were I part of the UK government I'd be doing cartwheels over this. Let him go to Equador and then it becomes their problem and one we can wash our hands of.

Nope. You have to go through several checkpoints and I've been asked to leave my vehicle on a couple of occasions.

Do you travel regularly in Diplomatic vehicles ?

Well that's true but what I mean is they could say "Sorry, we need you to step out of the vehicle" and then when they refuse, tell them they have to bugger off because no getting out means no traveling on the tunnel. Just because they don't have to get out doesn't mean they have to let them travel.

If there is any EVIDENCE of him going to be sent immediately to the electric chair in the USA

His one saving grace is that he is known about. If he was a combatant he'd simply be hooded, traded over on a UK airfield then tortured in an unknown location.

Don't be naive about the US. These are the same folk who put their missile shields in Europe to protect themselves making us a target for thermo-nuclear strikes if the US had ever fallen out with Russia.

Remember Yeltsin? He is credited with stopping a nuclear war.

Well that's true but what I mean is they could say "Sorry, we need you to step out of the vehicle" and then when they refuse, tell them they have to bugger off[b] because no getting out means no traveling on the tunnel[/b]. Just because they don't have to get out doesn't mean they have to let them travel.

Simple as that eh ?

They can't search the car, so they put him in the boot. Job done.

WUN
UN
DRED!

*Edit - DAMMIT! 😉 *

....and now we just leave him there to go stir crazy.

the charges could actually be correct. Sweden is a pretty tolerant country and have system of law thiat is at least as good as our own better repsected by it's citzens. It's not even close to being a US brown noser.

As Assange's mate said when interviewed by the Beeb - the British Government have tried to bully the Ecuadorian embassy into action they were reluctant to take and should be ashamed of themselves, or something along those lines.

's true...

His one saving grace is that he is known about. If he was a combatant he'd simply be hooded, traded over on a UK airfield then tortured in an unknown location.

Don't be naive about the US. These are the same folk who put their missile shields in Europe to protect themselves making us a target for thermo-nuclear strikes if the US had ever fallen out with Russia.

Remember Yeltsin? He is credited with stopping a nuclear war.

Not sure how the first paragraph relates to the rest but don't let continuity or relevance stop you. Anyway, nobody is denying governments do bad things but what I said was EVIDENCE in this case, not ranting about other random things. Clearly there is none otherwise we'd have seen it and if you point at the statements from US politicians, the same people also think thinks lie the NHS being some sort of den of communism so they're hardly credible.

Sweden is a pretty tolerant country and have system of law thiat is at least as good as our own better repsected by it's citzens. It's not even close to being a US brown noser.

Furry muff.

TBH he could be being stitched up like a kipper to spend many a year in a Swedish jail as a punishment/entrapment.

However hes not a character who does himself any favours and he could have been arrogant (him arrogant!).... and predatory as well.

Will we ever know the truth?

[b]Will we ever know the truth?[/b]

Wait for Wikileaks to release it... ironically

However hes not a character who does himself any favours

And that comes from an expert! 🙂

I wonder what Jemima Khan makes of loosing £20K on all of this.

If she had £20k to risk in the first place, I don't she'll miss it in the financial sense.

I think Assange might be crossed off her Xmas card list though...

All I think has been achieved today is that Julian Assange can now actually leave the one room he is currently in and freely move around the embassy (and obviously enjoy the platter of Ferrero Roche that the ambassador hands out at parties).

He still cant leave the building unless he wants to be nicked so will be doing a passable impersonation of Tom Hanks in "the Terminal" (only without a slightly odd generic eastern european accent, a group of "hillarious and heartwarming" characters and Catherine Zeta Jones)

How long do you reckon he will be in there for? My guess, at least 6 months.

Interestingly there is an election in Ecuador in February...hmmm.... 😉

but what I said was EVIDENCE in this case

As i see it, if he can prove he is a virgin then there is no case to answer. Any medical experts on here might be able to advise if it is possible.

I've just looked on google maps. The embassy is next to Harrods which has a heli pad on it. Zip wire across the roof, and job's a good'un.

Also noticed the embassy now has a review.
[url] https://plus.google.com/115590698300526313512 [/url]

He should answer the charges against him in Sweden, he did scarper from Sweden rather quickly at the time of the alleged assaults, the rest he is using as a smoke screen to evade facing the Swedish courts. He's comes across as a rather slimy character IMO.

He's comes across as a rather slimy character IMO.

Probably a terrorist then like the Yanks reckon.

hora - Member

Remember Yeltsin? He is credited with stopping a nuclear war.

Ok, I'm going to bite on this one. Huh? What did Boris Yeltsin do to stop doomsday, spill his vodka on the launch panel and short it out?

Assange is like the kid that harasses animals and gets away with it because they're behind an electric fence. Then one day, the power is off, and...

DavidBelstein is he a STWer?

Then yes.

Read up on Yeltsin. It was a test missile launch mistaken communication that led to a General on duty rekaying the wrong info. Yeltsin was told an attack had been started and shall we counter attack?

works both ways; I wonder how much EVIDENCE the Swedes have presented to anyone regarding the rape/molestation case

Well that's the point rather, it does work both ways but we've only got anything concrete from one side. Assange has no actual evidence that the Americans are out to kill him or actually are definitely going to attempt to extradite him. The Swedes on the other hand have two women who have made what are, in Sweden, serious allegations against him. He's never denied sleeping with them and so the police there want to talk to him. He's not been charged, he's wanted for questioning.

He should answer the charges against him in Sweden, he did scarper from Sweden rather quickly at the time of the alleged assaults, the rest he is using as a smoke screen to evade facing the Swedish courts. He's comes across as a rather slimy character IMO.

He stayed in Sweden to be questioned by the Swedish authority's, until he was told he could go and the case was dropped. He stayed in Sweden until his application for residency was turned down.

Assange has no actual evidence that the Americans are out to kill him or actually are definitely going to attempt to extradite him

Apart from American politicians who've said on record he should be assassinated.

Why can't he be questioned over the phone or via video link?

Assange has allegedly raped two women. Swedish authorities wish to question him in these allegations.

Everything else is a smokescreen.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-refugee-protection

No one should be naïve about the US, but this is a fallacious chain of reasoning. The US has not said whether it wants to detain Mr Assange, though it has had plenty of time to do so. If it wanted his extradition, the US might logically be more likely to make use of Britain's excessively generous extradition treaty with the US – which has not happened – rather than wait until he was in Sweden, when both Sweden and the UK would have to sign off on any extradition application. And neither Sweden nor the UK would in any case deport someone who might face torture or the death penalty. Ecuador's own human rights record is also far from exemplary, as Human Rights Watch has made clear.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-ecuador

Ecuador’s Criminal Code still has provisions criminalizing desacato (“lack of respect”), under which anyone who offends a government official may receive a prison sentence up to three months and up to two years for offending the president. In September 2011 the Constitutional Court agreed to consider a challenge to the constitutionality of these provisions submitted by Fundamedios, an Ecuadorian press freedom advocacy group. A new criminal code presented by the government to the National Assembly in October does not include the crime of desacato, but if approved would still mandate prison sentences of up to three years for those who defame public authorities.

Under the existing code, journalists face prison sentences and crippling damages for this offense. According to Fundamedios, by October 2011 five journalists had been sentenced to prison terms for defamation since 2008, and 18 journalists, media directors, and owners of media outlets faced similar charges.

A so called human rights campaigner seeks shelter from due process of the law in an admirable liberal democracy, in a place with a terrible record of persecution of journalists. I cant imagine the level of contortion you must have to put yourself through to support Assange and still call yourself a liberal, or of the left.

I cant imagine the level of contortion you must have to put yourself through to support Assange and still call yourself a liberal, or of the left.

I wouldn't say I support Assange exactly, I think he probably is quite a creepy guy and is motivated by self-aggrandisement, but look at what happened to Bradley Manning. I think Assange has good reason to be scared/paranoid. If you look at how the case progressed in Sweden it seems a bit fishy (AFAIK original prosecutor decides not to charge him, then after political pressure a new prosecutor gets the case and changes the decision?).

neither Sweden nor the UK would in any case deport someone who might face torture

Indeed, I don't know about Sweden but the UK has been proved to have done it several times.

Assange has allegedly raped two women. Swedish authorities wish to question him in these allegations.

Everything else is a smokescreen.

There doesn't seem to be a single European nation willing to stand up against America's bullying, it's a real embarrassment that it is only some of the less desirable South American and Asian nations that are willing to do so.

There doesn't seem to be a single European nation willing to stand up against America's bullying, it's a real embarrassment that it is only some of the less desirable South American and Asian nations that are willing to do so.

+100000

Assange has [s]allegedly[/s] been falsly acussed of the rape of two women. Swedish authorities [s]wish to question him[/s] have questioned him in these allegations.

Everything else is a smokescreen.

No whats embarrasing is the likes of yourself falling over backwards to find common cause with the likes of Ecuador and Venezuela. Anyone who picks a fight with big bad America has got to be the good guy, especially if they have brown skin right? Its only logic like that that sees the liberal left line up to support extreme right-wing governments like Iran.

been falsly acussed of the rape of two women

You know these women to be liars do you?

[quote=mcboo ]> been falsly acussed of the rape of two women
You know these women to be liars do you?
As much as you know that they are not surely?

Nice straw man argument there mcboo. 🙄

Ah mcboo is here to provide the mornings entertainment, perfect 😆

Anyone who picks a fight with big bad America has got to be the good guy, especially if they have brown skin right? Its only logic like that that sees the liberal left line up to support extreme right-wing governemnets like Iran.

Having read your "contortion" post earlier, my irony-o-meter just went into the yellow zone.

As much as you know that they are not surely?

Thats what independent Swedish courts and judiciary are there for.

[quote=deadlydarcy ]my irony-o-meter just went into the yellow zone.
Does it look like one of these?
[img] [/img]

Having read your "contortion" post earlier, my irony-o-meter just went into the yellow zone.

Do go on.....

A new criminal code presented by the government to the National Assembly in October does not include the crime of desacato, but if approved would still mandate prison sentences of up to three years for those who [u][b]defame[/b][/u] public authorities.

A so called human rights campaigner seeks shelter from due process of the law in an admirable liberal democracy, in a place with a terrible record of persecution of journalists. I cant imagine the level of contortion you must have to put yourself through to support Assange and still call yourself a liberal, or of the left.

[b]de·fame/di?f?m/
Verb: slander or libel.
[/b]

They have Libel laws? Outrageous!!!!

[img] [/img]

The Swedes on the other hand have two women who have made what are, in Sweden, serious allegations against him.

But they are not serious allegations in the UK, not even crimes I believe, doesn't that make a difference ? Or should we also agree to extraditing anyone facing what are, say in Iran, serious allegations in connection with their sexual behaviour ?

Morning ernie

Its a fair point, so the courts here have to make a decision based on the level of justice offered in the country concerned, their human rights record and so on. If I had to scale them I'd put Sweden pretty near the top (if not at the very top), and Iran dead last. Wouldnt you?

so the courts here have to make a decision based on the level of justice offered in the country concerned, their human rights record and so on.

No not really. The UK for example won't agree to the extradition of someone if they face the death penalty, the country's "human rights record" doesn't come into it.

Likewise I don't see why the UK should always be obliged to agree with the extradition of someone based on allegations which are not crimes in the UK, whatever the country's "human rights record".

Especially when there is some evidence that the allegations of these non-UK crimes are politically motivated.

Sweden may be higher on the list of human rights records but that still hasn't stopped them

1. Giving in to political pressure - asking to extradite against charges that were previously dropped
2. Being unable to interview someone on tele-presence!

No not really. The UK for example won't agree with the extradition of someone if they face the death plenty, the country's "human rights record" doesn't come into it.

Nor should we, we are all agreed with the British courts on that

Likewise I don't see why the UK should always be obliged to agree with the extradition of someone based on allegations which are not crimes in the UK, whatever agree the country's "human rights record".

Which in this case means we are into the realms of defining what is and is not sexual assault. Sweden is a sovereign state with one definition, we have another. If you are convinced that Sweden's is so unreasonable that a UK court cannot order a deportation to that country then you can make that specific argument.

Given his absolute unwillingness to go to Sweden, perhaps they're concerned that if he is interviewed and they've decided there is a case to answer they will face more years of legal wrangling to get their hands on him.

Of course as I pointed out, the longer this goes on, the less anyone remembers wikileaks which may suit a lot of people

Which in this case means we are into the realms of defining what is and is not sexual assault.

😕 Yes that's right. I expect what is and is not sexual assault to be defined by British courts. Should anyway one have a problem with that ?

Didn't Roman Polanski actually plead guilty to some despicable acts and yet he has avoided extradition to the US for decades and continued to direct films without much condemnation.

Yes that's right. I expect what is and is not sexual assault to be defined by British courts. Should anyway one have a problem with that ?

Yes. We have international extradition agreements in place with lots of countries. It cant be a one way street, I want people who are wanted for crimes in the UK who then flee abroad to face justice here. Don't you? Does Assange get to be a special case because he cocks a snoot at Uncle Sam?

[quote=mcboo ]We have international extradition agreements in place with lots of countries. It cant be a one way streetIs that unintentional irony?

Given what seems to be our one-way extradition relationship with Uncle Sam it's time the UK stood-up to him.

Does Assange get to be a special case because he cocks a snoot at Uncle Sam?

It seems that way to me, hence my comment :

[i]"Especially when there is some evidence that the allegations of these non-UK crimes are politically motivated"[/i]

Is that unintentional irony?

No. Are you capable of forming an argument?

[quote=mcboo ]Is that unintentional irony?
No. Are you capable of forming an argument?
It's a genuine question. Are you aware of how many US Citizens have been extradited from the US for crimes committed abroad?

It seems that way to me, hence my comment :

"Especially when there is some evidence that the allegations of these non-UK crimes are politically motivated"

Jeezuz Ernie.....youre one of ones on here worth listening to.

Are you capable of forming an argument?

He didn't need to form an argument as you answered the question, ie, no, the irony was intentional.

It cant be a one way street, I want people who are wanted for crimes in the UK who then flee abroad to face justice here

As an aside, that's pretty much the situation with the US-UK extradition treaty. People get extradited to the US at the drop of a hat; try extraditing a US citizen to any other country, OTOH...

From Wikipedia:

Controversy surrounds the US-UK extradition treaty of 2003 which was implemented in this act. It has been claimed to be one-sided[2] because it allows the US to extradite UK citizens and others for offences committed against US law, even though the alleged offence may have been committed in the UK by a person living and working in the UK... ...and there being no reciprocal right; and issues about the level of proof required being less to extradite from the UK to the US rather than vice-versa.

The [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003 ]Extradition Act 2003[/url] is a one-sided scandal and we should all be writing to our elective representatives to ask when it will be reviewed.

Andy

Does Assange get to be a special case because he cocks a snoot at Uncle Sam?

No, and it's obviously not that simple. I don't think anyone is arguing that he shouldn't cooperate with the swedish police's investigations into the alleged sexual assault - even Assange has agreed to be interviewed.

The grubby part of this is the allogations that the Swedish justice system is being manipulated by America, so that he can eventually end up there to be prosecuted under terrorism charges (which can carry a death penalty).

Although I don't agree with what wikileaks did.... it certainly isn't "terrorism" and I don't think we should be facilitating his extradition to the US (eventually) in any way.