MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
My wife is applying for a new (contract) role - the company, via the agency has requested her full date of birth - apparently this is used by the prospective employer to generate a unique reference.
Is this legal at this stage of the process- her cv has been put forward to the employer, and they've requested answers to a few questions including this one, but no interview offered yet.
Top 5 FTSE100 company- I'd have thought they'd have robust HR policies in place, so assume that this must be acceptable, but can't see how.
Why would giving a date of birth be a problem ? Every job application I've ever filled in has asked it.
Sort of defeats the whole point of not being able to discriminate by age though....
Why would giving a date of birth be a problem ? Every job application I’ve ever filled in has asked it.
Age discrimination.
As above age discrimination. Should only be used post-offer and acceptance really.
If you value your privacy that much then you probably shouldn’t reveal your real name either.
It could give a prospective employer unfair clues about your gender, age or ethnicity
Just use a cool code name on all future applications.
Age discrimination.
Yeah, best wait til you waste your time going for an interview for that.
Illegal age discrimination. ( dressed up as something else)
dressed up as something else
Best to, and wear a mask so they can't tell.
Age discrimination.
Yeah, best wait til you waste your time going for an interview for that.
Yeah, if they are going to discriminate based on age, then it will happen either way. They will just use a different reason why the interview was unsuccessful.
If you are querying with them why you have to give your DOB on an application, don't worry about it, you won't be getting the job.
And it wont have anything to do with how old you are.
It's not illegal, if it's part of a "diversity" survey.
It must not be given to the people who are interviewing and selecting.
If you value your privacy that much then you probably shouldn’t reveal your real name either.
That too. Or if you really don't want the job tell them your name is Mohommed - your CV won't even bounce on its way to the bin.
There are certain characteristics employers are not allowed to ask either before or at interview. Age is one.
Edit - Gobuchal is correct - but thats not what appears to be happening in this case. You can also refuse to take part in diversity surveys
but thats not what appears to be happening in this case
No, as said, they're using it to create a candidate reference number. So give them a false one. Ending in 19, so they either think you're a baby or 100.
Interesting set of responses, more agressive than I expected.
Do application forms really ask age these days - I genuinely don't know, haven't filled one out for decades, and had assumed that under discrimination laws it was illegal?
Wife certainly hasn't been asked before acceptance stage before since she's contracted, and that's been 15 years.
Don't really have too much of an issue, just assumed that it was no-no these days.
Although the way the request is framed (used to generate a unique reference?) doesn't quite ring true, it is easy enough to establish someones age from their CV any way.
Presumably as a contractor to FTSE100's she has a Linkedin profile? If so I expect that'll provide decent insight into age (via employment history and school/university attendance), gender, experience, associations, previous employers. One bloke I saw had a picture of himself in front of his sword collection. As an IT firm we don't employ many ninjas.
I filled something in yesterday (rock and roll caravan insurance I think) that asked my gender.
My gob was smacked!
As an IT firm we don’t employ many ninja
Maybe you should. You’d be st the cutting edge of the industry.
Just looked at our own applicant forms (I work for a University) - We don't ask for a DOB at applicant stage, however we do ask for dates for education.. Obviously you could work out a rough age for someone from those if you really wanted to discriminate.
J
Odd request.
Most agents and agencies use DD/MM and other identifiers as unique code.
Strikes of Age Discrimination IMO.
Obviously you could work out a rough age for someone from those if you really wanted to discriminate.
I went back to uni at an advanced age - if I just put the date of my last degree the interviewers will get a shock 🙂
Me too - I got my degree in my 40s
TJ is correct.
They're called "protected characteristics" and it's illegal to ask about them during the recruiting process (application or interview) in case it prejudices it. Others include religious leanings, marital status, spent criminal convictions and so on. There's an exception here - they can ask your age if it's a requirement of the job, say it involves selling alcohol.
This might also apply to a recruitment agency. It depends whether this information is likely to bias their decision of candidates to put forward. If they're using it to prioritise putting forward younger candidates then they're breaking the law.
They can ask for birthdate as part of an equality survey but this must be kept separate from the recruiter as gobuchul says.
You should see the questions they ask on your SC forms .....
put 01/01/01 and wait for the phone call
using a birth date to generate a userID on a system is totally crap, it's not only a bad idea for infosecurity reasons but also the GDPR doesn't allow data to be used unnecessarily
" Article 23 calls for controllers to hold and process only the data absolutely necessary for the completion of its duties (data minimisation), as well as limiting the access to personal data to those needing to act out the processing."
In my experience it is not illegal to ask for your date of birth, but it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of it. There are certain things which will tend to suggest discrimination and are definite nono’s ie asking someone’s age in an interview.
however we do ask for dates for education.. Obviously you could work out a rough age for someone from those if you really wanted to discriminate.
Unless it was Dougie Howser MD 👍
You should see the questions they ask on your SC forms …..
Unless it's changed a lot since I saw them it's mostly just dull as dishwater stuff and a right pain in the backside if you didn't think to right down all the placed you have lived for the last 10 years!
Unless it’s changed a lot since I saw them it’s mostly just dull as dishwater stuff
Yeah, it’s all “have you plotted with any foreign powers to undermine the government ?“ and “ have you ever engaged in any terrorist activities ?“
All that boring stuff.
Get asked worse than that buying software these days!
It’s a bit discriminatory against your average freedom fighter.
It’s downright terroristist
Oversimplified but spot the fifty year old
school
job
job
job
job
job
uni (sociology degree)
job
school
uni
job
Am I being discriminatory 😮 Soz. Luckily for everyone here I have never had any involvement in the recruitment process however I like to read up on the people I'm due to meet with. With my dastardly ways I did out the Sick Bikes guy's work history on that other thread.
Unless it’s changed a lot since I saw them it’s mostly just dull as dishwater stuff and a right pain in the backside if you didn’t think to right down all the placed you have lived for the last 10 years!
You would be knackered at section 22 list all websites you visit and how much time you spend on them. In fact it even asks you to input the hours in a box....what did you put Mike Stw 80-100?
All our applications ask for age but the people doing blind sifting don't get to see any of that.
In fact it even asks you to input the hours in a box….what did you put Mike Stw 80-100?
Hours of use is an incredibly passive thing these days, shows how most people are lagging behind on this stuff 😉
Anyway no real interest in going back to those places that need it these days, much more fun out in the real world 🙂
Although it's not expressly illegal they do need to be able to justify their request, reference number generating sounds like discrimination by the back door. Contact the Equality Advisory Support Service, they should be able to help (although it probably won't affect your wife) and prevent them from asking further applicants
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/contact-us/equality-advisory-and-support-service
dressed up as something else
Mutton dressed as lamb? 😉
There are certain characteristics employers are not allowed to ask either before or at interview. Age is one.
They’re called “protected characteristics” and it’s illegal to ask about them during the recruiting process (application or interview) in case it prejudices it
I don't think the legislation actually says such a thing. Some lawyers and HR people decided that it would be best not to and now the whole internet believes it is illegal - when in fact it may (at a push) be best practice. What is unlawful is discriminating on the basis of age (that is using the information contained in the DOB to treat that person less favourably). It doesn't prevent anyone asking the question so long as the information is not misused. Of course if someone doesn't get the job and thinks they were disadvantaged by the answer they gave then you might have to justify why you asked and show how it had no bearing (like the people making the decision not getting the info, the decision being based on other criteria etc). For a contract job I'm not sure why anyone would worry about giving their age - its not like the recipient is going to be saying "well they aren't in it for long before retiring".
DOB isn't necessarily the best way of differentiating two Joe Bloggs who might be on your system but its hardly an uncommon way of identifying people, or confirming that you have the right person if they call for information etc. If you get to interview, the FTSE company may also be asking for it on arrival at reception to make sure you aren't some random chancer trying to access the company.
I found this
<h2 id="asking-for-a-date-of-birth">Asking for a date of birth</h2>
You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job, for example selling alcohol.You can ask someone their date of birth on a separate equality monitoring form. You should not let the person selecting or interviewing candidates see this form.
on https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment
<h2 id="questions-you-cannot-ask-when-recruiting"></h2>
apparently this is used by the prospective employer to generate a unique reference.
Tell them you have a better suggestion for generating a unique reference and hand them a printed version of her CV. Then instruct them to scan it into digital format and run a cryptographic hash function on the file using Unix time as a salt. That should fulfil their requirements.
It will also help them in narrowing down the shortlist too 👍
Bonus.
If you are querying with them why you have to give your DOB on an application, don’t worry about it, you won’t be getting the job
Definitely a good way to get your application put straight in the bin i reckon. Doesn't matter if its right or wrong for them to ask, anybody who kicks up a fuss about something like that is automatically making themselves stand out as that employee that will be awkward over everything.
A lot of this shit comes from agents, not the employer. Agents may ask for their own reasons to prioritise who gets to the interview or tailor their version of your CV, based on what will earn them the biggest fee.
You might not put age on the CV, but if the agent asks, it will turn up on the CV that goes to the employer.
Always take your own copy of your CV to an interview.
Better, steer clear of agents if possible (haven't used one in over 10 years, not to get a contract).
I never list DOB. It's not hard to work it out though from experience, salary/rate expectations, school and looking on LinkedIn. It's just it's not going to be a headline on the CV for agents and employers/clients to focus on (which they're not allowed to anyway).
Though as a contractor I find it's largely irrelevant as I'm not part of a tiered system of employment so they're less concerned about fitting you into a salary bracket that doesn't fit your age (should be experience, but anyway). Can I do the job, what's my experience, what rate am I asking? They just say yes or no.
Though frequently my interviews are more "we're in deep shit, can you help us out?".
I work in data protection and this kind of thing is very poor practice.
The principles it engages are "necessary processing" and "data minimisation" - what is the purpose of the personal data processing and why is it necessary to collect the dob to achieve that purpose ? Otherwise you are quite right to not supply it.
They could argue that it is needed to differentiate between all the John Smiths who apply, but I don't think that argument flies during the recruitment process, not until they employ a John Smith.
I have junked a lot of form-filling from my life. It they want to know gender to allow you to buy a fridge, they don't get my money !
Always take your own copy of your CV to an interview.
The point of a CV is to get you an interview. If you've got an interview, you don't need a CV any more.