[Closed] arrogant posh boys

I'm a chav than wrecker, better than a **** I suppose

If you were a chav before you went to uni; you're still one now.
I'm not sure what a **** is so I'll take your word for it.

I'm not sure what a **** is so I'll take your word for it.

Thats hardly suprising

Nope. A chav will always be a chav.

And they say we have a problem with lack of social mobility in this country. No point people trying to better themselves, they'll always be scum eh.

Thats hardly suprising

I was thinking a bit about this last night - it has been mentioned on here before.

Why are our currant crop of politicians of all parties so unbelievably bland and dull - and such political nonentities?

wrecker it may have escaped your tiny mind but we are trying to have a discussion here, not some stupid game of insult slinging. Nice edit on your original post by the way.

Why are our currant crop of politicians of all parties so unbelievably bland and dull - and such political nonentities?

career politicians IMO

wrecker it may have escaped your tiny mind but we are trying to have a discussion here, not some stupid game of insult slinging

you make a lot of assumption here I do not agree with. Since less and less working class people have been in parliament and more and more career politicians have been around the social mobility of the country has reduced.

AA I agree about the social mobility but you said above it was side issue.

Which are the assumptions you do not agree with?

I was thinking a bit about this last night - it has been mentioned on here before.

Why are our currant crop of politicians of all parties so unbelievably bland and dull - and such political nonentities?

Since New Labour it's all been about tightly controlled PR, focus groups, and 'being a good communicator' - all more important than any political conviction/ability.

career politicians IMO

If you look at the cabinet and shadow cabinet, it seems that you study PPE at Oxford, get an internship working for a minister, then work your way up the greasy pole. Internships require you to have independent means and probably good connections thus ruling out the vast majority at a stroke. Perhaps the similarity of the career route has manifested itself in many people's inability to distinguish between the main parties.

But the question is why it has become so. Traditionally, conservatives drew many of their MPs from the professions and labour from the unions. I think it's to the detriment of both parties that this is no longer the case.

keep the elite (ie the cleverest and most ballsy) in power

you are assuming that we have the cleverest in power now when it would appear a huge part of society is excluded and social mobility is reducing.

I cannot believe you're accusing anyone else of arrogance.

no, you called me a chav I said I would rather be that than a ****, make of that what you will.

Why are our currant crop of politicians of all parties so unbelievably bland and dull - and such political nonentities?

Well.. I went to school with someone who is now a shadow minister. He went from school, to Cambridge, to the labour press office, worked as a spin doctor for Tessa Jowell and David Blunkett, then after proving his worth as an unquestioning yes man was parachuted into the second safest labour seat in the country.

So he's never actually had what most of us regard as a 'job', nor what most of us regard as 'normal' life experience. He has effectively spent his entire adult life inside the political Westminster bubble. I'm not sure he'd even be able to find his supposed 'constituency' on a map.

He's absolutely representative of our present political class. The only way you can progress in the present system is to shut up, certainly have no ideology, and represent your own interests and those who are paying your [s]bungs[/s] political donations

I don't really see a problem with the PM being well educated. Seems rather important in fact to have a knowledge of politics, economics, history and world affairs.

I also find it baffling this view that just because someone comes from a privileged background they immediately don't give a damn about anyone else and that empathy is seemingly impossible.

Aw bless. The chavvy grad has spat the dummy.
Oh, and I've not said a chav is scum.

No but you seem to be using the term as an insult, what do you mean by it exactly then?

I don't really see a problem with the PM being well educated. Seems rather important in fact to have a knowledge of politics, economics, history and world affairs.

[b]I also find it baffling this view that just because someone comes from a privileged background they immediately don't give a damn about anyone else and that empathy is seemingly impossible[/b].

I don't automatically assume that, but the actions of the current government show it pretty clearly.

If you have no money to start with and struggle to get a job that pays much you have very few fiscal choices to make. Todays fiscal choice do I buy food or heat the house?

I struggle with this notion of struggling to get a job, perhaps that's the issue. I know someone who, within days of signing up to an employment agency or two in the east end (poor, no jobs apparently) of Glasgow, was fending off offers of permanent full time work (office, admin, mundane almost skill-free roles) unrelated to their non-technical quals for up to 3/4 of the salary I require a higher degree to get. On speaking to a couple of these employers and working for a few of them they found out that the bulk of people sent in by the agencies either didn't turn up at all or turned up and thought the work level was unreasonable and walked out. All it was was answering the phone, filing papers and collecting info. I'm sure there must be people who struggle to find jobs, but it seems there's a large number of the unemployed who just don't want to work and could fairly easily be in reasonably paid employment? It seems the employers are struggling to find staff too.

Ultimately I think it's down to education and trying to ensure people see the value in working both for themselves and the country. We're obviously doing something wrong if people see more sense in lounging about at home.

I don't really see a problem with the PM being well educated. Seems rather important in fact to have a knowledge of politics, economics, history and world affairs.

I also find it baffling this view that just because someone comes from a privileged background they immediately don't give a damn about anyone else and that empathy is seemingly impossible.

You are entirely right of course, but wouldnt it be a help if the odd member of the cabinet or other MP's around you or indeed advisers had some different life experience?

No but you seem to be using the term as an insult, what do you mean by it exactly then?

you are assuming that we have the cleverest in power now when it would appear a huge part of society is excluded and social mobility is reducing.

I see your point, and yes not all of them are the cleverest, but it takes a certain admirable quality to get there does it not? My point is that a large majority of the population are so badly informed that if we had pure democracy then this sceptic isle would eb a much much worse place..

(The fault of that status of poorly informed majority may well be the fault of the system but we can at least try to change that)

I don't really see a problem with the PM being well educated. Seems rather important in fact to have a knowledge of politics, economics, history and world affairs.

Has anyone argued otherwise? The point is that to be a prominent MP, you have to follow a specific career path, which doesn't include any kind of life experience. Binners sets out a typical example.

Well put binners!

Can a working class person become an MP these days?

The most high-profile MP from a working class background that I can think of is Maggie. Be careful what you wish for...

I struggle with this notion of struggling to get a job, perhaps that's the issue. I know someone who, within days of signing up to an employment agency or two in the east end (poor, no jobs apparently) of Glasgow, was fending off offers of permanent full time work (office, admin, mundane almost skill-free roles) unrelated to their non-technical quals for up to 3/4 of the salary I require a higher degree to get. On speaking to a couple of these employers and working for a few of them she found out that the bulk of people sent in by the agencies either didn't turn up at all or turned up and thought the work level was unreasonable and walked out. All it was was answering the phone, filing papers and collecting info. I'm sure there must be people who struggle to find jobs, but it seems there's a large number of the unemployed who just don't want to work and could fairly easily be in reasonably paid employment?

whilst this may or may not be true wouldnt it be a help if someone around the gov had some direct experience (like thru' friends or relatives) of why these people dont seem to make much effort to get a job?

I struggle with this notion of struggling to get a job, perhaps that's the issue.

1. Most jobs available are poorly paid.
2. The number of jobs available is less than the number of people looking for work.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/chav
chav

British informal, derogatory

a young lower-class person typified by brash and loutish behaviour and the wearing of (real or imitation) designer clothes.

The most high-profile MP from a working class background that I can think of is Maggie. Be careful what you wish for...

What about Dennis Skinner?

Why are our currant crop of politicians of all parties so unbelievably bland and dull - and such political nonentities?

Easy one to answer - because if they have one ounce of personality/charisma the media will rip them apart in no time. Would love to see am MP who's experienced more of life's rich tapestry but they would never get past the starting gate.

The most high-profile MP from a working class background that I can think of is Maggie. Be careful what you wish for...

true, but I am not thinking in party political terms here.

Binners:
Well.. I went to school with someone who is now a shadow minister

Well, I'd expect nothing less from someone as "old money" as yourself, old bean, especially as you attended the Eton of the North.

You've kept it hidden well 😉

Actually... David Davis bucks the trend. He's from a working class background. Which explains why all the present members of Dave's gang absolutely loath him. And I've more chance of getting within sniffing distance of even a junior ministers job than he has

whilst this may or may not be true wouldnt it be a help if someone around the gov had some direct experience (like thru' friends or relatives) of why these people dont seem to make much effort to get a job?

Certainly. But but those with the skills and abilities to reach the cabinet will undoubtedly have a) changed somewhat since they were working class and b) no longer be working class.

1. Most jobs available are poorly paid.
2. The number of jobs available is less than the number of people looking for work.

1) Most of the jobs the person in question was offered were well above minimum wage. Not "support the whole family" well paid, but in the 18-22K range. Some were indeed poor, I remember one down at 14 but that was a commission based role.
2) I'm not sure where the numbers come from so it's hard to say, but the number of jobs in the job centre were no reflection of the true scale of jobs available if you scratch the surface and don't just wander about your local high street asking in your favourite clothes stores.

And sure, maybe you'd have to have 2 jobs for a while, I've done it, my relatives have done it. I'll do pretty much anything if I need the cash to keep my house afloat and not resort to being given cash by the state.

Aristotle - ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh. I've been getting away with my northern working class monkey shtick upto this point. 😉

Paddy Ashdown wasn't exactly lacking in "life" was he?

pretty posh though wasnt he?

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what it needs to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

we put them there, it's our duty to remove them.
unfortunately a democracy relies on the people, all we have is a majority who are either apathetic or politically misguided (ignorant).

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what needs it to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

This.

But working class!
Edit; Perhaps not. He has a honorary degree, does this count?

Paddy Ashdown wasn't exactly lacking in "life" was he?

And the press destroyed him, your point is? 😀

Easy one to answer - because if they have one ounce of personality/charisma the media will rip them apart in no time. Would love to see am MP who's experienced more of life's rich tapestry but they would never get past the starting gate.

Much as I loathe him, George Galloway refutes this.

doesnt sound working class to me:

Ashdown was largely brought up in Northern Ireland, where his father bought a farm in 1945[2] near Donaghadee.[6] He was educated first at a local primary school, then as a weekly boarder at Garth House Preparatory School in Bangor[6] and from age 11 at Bedford School in England, where his Irish accent earned him the nickname "Paddy".

it's not necessarily the case that the cabinet needs to be representative of the populous. what needs it to be is empathetic with the needs of the whole country. your social class does not dictate your ability to be 'well-rounded'.

true but having some people around you from a different socio economic backgound would help would it not?

We need more MP's who are capable of delivering a decent left hook

[img] [/img]

Theres not one single MP out of the present lot who looksup to it. I suppose Erik Pickles could belly flop on you 😆

1) Most of the jobs the person in question was offered were well above minimum wage. Not "support the whole family" well paid, but in the 18-22K range. Some were indeed poor, I remember one down at 14 but that was a commission based role.
2) I'm not sure where the numbers come from so it's hard to say, but the number of jobs in the job centre were no reflection of the true scale of jobs available if you scratch the surface and don't just wander about your local high street asking in your favourite clothes stores.

Thing is, personal anecdotes are a poor substitute for national statistics.

anagallis_arvensis

true, but I am not thinking in party political terms here.

AA what are you gettign at then as you keep moving the goalposts? Are you sure that you and TJ haven't melded together?

This question genuinely staggers me. As a small example, if we want to get the long term benefit climents back into work surely it might be better if someone knew something about what their life was like and why they have been on benefits so long?

Knowing something and living it are not mutually exclusive. I am glad I have "staggered" you, but perhaps you are misinterpreting the question. My point is, why do you have to come from the 90% of the populas to be able to represent them?

I would rather a business owner in charge of the country than the checkout staff, for instance. That does not mean the business owner has no empathy or understanding of his staff.