I agree ignoring them is best - successfully done when they organised a pro union rally in Edinburgh a while back. I just feel Fosters presence in fife will make it too hard to ignore for many leading to violence which I am fairly sure is her aim.
Personally I'd like to see the whole lot arrested for "incitement" or " behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace."
Were they sectarian, homophobic, sexist and pushing their religious views on others?
In the case of Blair it appears that his religious views were pushed on us :
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/the-twisted-religion-of-blair-and-bush.html
good reach there TG, about the best you can get is about 10% on one of the criteria 🙂
Still no good reason for Arlene to head off to incite some trouble is there.
Corbyn wouldn't condem IRA terrorism, Blair's WMD lies and war.
Arlene's school bus was bombed when she was 16 and her father shot in the head in a separate attack, I would probably be a bit bigoted after those events too!
sv Member
Corbyn wouldn’t condem IRA terrorism,
When did you stop beating your wife?
He refused to single out one terrorist organisation - a non story.
Isn't Arlene Foster going to save us from Brexit on account of her stance on NI customs?
sv
Kicking the heck out of them in 1690, its now just another excuse for a drinking session. Leave them alone and it’ll go away, its purposely stirred up on both sides and then we get recreational rioting/bigotry/hatred. That then keeps both extreme parties in business for another while.
They were formed as a sectarian murder gang in 1795* and they were backed militarily by the Irish Volunteers (essentially British army reserves). The Order has always been inextricably linked to sectarian murder and more recently loyalist terrorism. Loyalist paramilitary bands make up half of the bands on the 12th, it's only recently that the BBC have tried to edit them out. The order still acts as a credit union for it's members with the precise purpose of keeping land out of catholic hands. Which is nice.
The fact a blind eye is turned to giant bonfires, loyalist flags, painted kerb stones and millions each year is spent enabling them to march "traditional routes" is tacit approval of the blatant discrimination catholics have suffered for literally hundreds of years. It represents much more than a piss up, it's an open display of sectarianism, militarism, oppression and entitlement.
*pesky Catholics were disgruntled at being unable to vote, teach, own land, own weapons, adopt orphans, inherit land, own a horse worth more than £5 etc etc
Are we allowed to whisper, state sponsored terrorists? 😆
The biggest thing keeping them alive, is that they've always been "weighed in" monetarily in british society. That is coming to an end, the likes of the eco scandal is just the arse end of it, which will eventually see an end to the orange order, will take a while yet though.
Always amuses me people go on about the catholic/protestant religious divide, we'll aye technically that's true. But ultimately it's just where the lines lie, it's not the reason for it all. ()
The reasoning has always been about lining pockets. even the partition of ireland was all about keeping the industrial north in british hands.
It's handy at times to have a well armed loyal goons at your disposal in those circumstances.
Circumstances that don't really exist anymore. Their days are numbered.
The attitude of some republicans utterly baffles me too, given the unthinking nature of loyalist culture, it's not exactly the hardest political battle, a unified front aimed at taking a large swaithes of the orange/loyalist communities with them is the only route forward. Ostracise the rabid ones, with a charm offensive aimed and bringing the more reasonable side of the loyalist/orange community on board and you'll get a UI. It'll take time, but it's hardly like it'd be difficult to out do orangism in the cultural stakes. Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
The loyalists couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and if they did 95% of them would tell their handlers anyway. The terrorists on both sides are scum and we need to move on but that's not likely to happen soon. Look at the play park in Newry, common sense would say why do it?
How do you stop people supporting the DUP/SF/OO/AOH etc?
sv
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
Yeah, Cromwell probably begs to differ.
I agree ignoring them is best – successfully done when they organised a pro union rally in Edinburgh a while back. I just feel Fosters presence in fife will make it too hard to ignore for many leading to violence which I am fairly sure is her aim.
I don't really think that's the case tbh, she's just playing to her own crowd by keeping the scottish ties current. Ties that are pretty strong in orange/loyalist culture, the saltire is a fairly prevalent loyalist/orange flag in the north.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">jimjam
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sv
[whisper] The IRA killed more Catholics than anybody else[\whisper]
Yeah, Cromwell probably begs to differ.
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I sure the Gaels weren't that friendly either when they invaded Ireland.
😆
Seosamh
The attitude of some republicans utterly baffles me too, given the unthinking nature of loyalist culture, it’s not exactly the hardest political battle, a unified front aimed at taking a large swaithes of the orange/loyalist communities with them is the only route forward. Ostracise the rabid ones, with a charm offensive aimed and bringing the more reasonable side of the loyalist/orange community on board and you’ll get a UI. It’ll take time, but it’s hardly like it’d be difficult to out do orangism in the cultural stakes. Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
I am sure not every republican reads James Joyce, and every unionist is in the Orange Order, I haven't heard that one side is more cultured than the other in this debate, but if that is the case I am not sure that love bombing the people of Ulster with classical music, Irish literature, ballet and fine French wine will bring about the cultural revolution you seek. Your argument is about as learned as me telling you my music taste is better than yours.
He refused to single out one terrorist organisation – a non story.
Seosamh
Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
Your argument is about as learned as me telling you my music taste is better than yours.
Not really. That's just your dim perception of my comment. I'd be more thinking along the lines of focusing on youth education and unemployment, figuring out how to take the peace wall down etc.
I'm all for normalisation. I actually reckon sinn fein are probably the best way to go about it. do they have their own baggage and issues they need to solve. aye of course, but tbh, they are the only vaguely realistic option (you have to give the likes of adams and mcguniess some credit there things like meeting the queen and going to downing street were massive steps and they've clearly been looking to pass things on to the next generation for a while). Like I say it'll still take a long time. be interesting to see where it all is in 10/20 years time, it's already a different place from 20 year ago. I'm sure I'm saying nothing alot of people in the 6 counties don't already know.
As someone who grew up with absolutely no religious denomination in the West coast of Scotland, but came from a family of Irish Catholics, when I was young my old man worked in construction and would be thrown off sites because of his NI Catholic heritage. I can also remember the joyous summers at my grandparents house south of Derry and regularly being stopped at army checkpoints and held there with machine guns pointed at us while the car was checked over. Good times...
Amazingly my entire family have managed to move on while knuckle draggers like Foster are happy to hop on the ferry to Stranraer for some bants in Fife
Seosamh
Ditch the traditions and move towards a unified society.
Bringing people under one banner on an island towards a unified society. Your lack of sincerity on the subject does not give that statement from you much weight I am afraid.
Your hard of thinkingism, on most subjects, doesn't give you much gravitas either! 😆
Personally I think I'm fairly open about where my natural allegiances lie, unlike yourself. There's no lack of sincerity from me, I can quite easily question my own, and quite often do.
Adams and Mcguiness have made great strides. Many people have moved from very entrenched positions in the run up to and since the Good Friday agreement. I was in Belfast for a brief trip on the 20th anniversary of its signing. It is a shame we are at a impass in the NI Assembly, and both sides need heads cracked together. I have made my comments on the Orange Order and Arlene Foster on page 1. Scottish politicians have spoken well in saying that she would be far sorting out restarting the assembly.
Far from displaying cultural superiority (without resorting to tradition), whether you like it or not Republicanisms best route to a united Ireland is a change in the voting demographic over time, pure and simple.
I have no axe to grind with or for either side in the NI debate, and will honestly hold my hands up to say that I hold no opinion on where NI's future should lie. I feel the same with Catalonia, and have said so in the past. People living in these situations day in day out are far better placed than me to make these decisions. I am sorry if the fact that I am not a bowler hat donning, sash wearing, flute playing unionist disappoints you.
