[Closed] are you the type of person who can forgive?

It would depend on the trangression.

Forgive? ........always

Forget? ..........never. Gary Barlow taught me that.

I don't let hatred or anger fester in my mind. life is to short.

I forgive others but rarely myself.

I forget others transgressions but never my own.

I'm sorry, Ton. I know I've said it so many times since it happened, but I really am sorry.

Somewhere in the middle. I forgive but pull back from the person a little

What have you done??

What have you done??

nothing. it has been done to me.

Not as much as I would like and generally not myself...

Whats up Ton? Feeling bitter about something?

listening to the J Vine show? the example there was truly astounding, i couldn't forgive that. infact i can carry a grudge for ever

it really depends on who did it and what it was - some people need second chances

listening to the J Vine show?

RD, I was. I made me think about something that I was told by a family member last year. it did not seem to bother me then, as I had too much on my plate to deal with at the time.
but now, I am ****ing seething about it. I am not a angry person, but this had got me.

Most things yes. But not wearing gym pumps on an aeroplane.

Our kid has a great theory. She says you have a mental black book of people who've really properly had you over. Their name goes in it, then you forget about them. Never think about them again. Don't waste your energy worrying about them and what they did. Don't pursue them. To quote Frozen, let it go.....

But play the long game. And should your paths cross again, and you happen to be in a position where the opportunity arises for some form of revenge, then the *er will rue the *ing day!!

So I suppose that comes down to

Forget? Yes.
Forgive? Not for the truly deserving, no.

There are two names in my black book

Friends come and go; enemies accumulate.

Mostly yes, I'll forgive loved ones almost immediately, people disrespecting my stuff seems to wind me up the most, I always looked after my stuff as a kid and as an adult, I hate to see it, however small and worthless being mistreated - but I'll only hold a grudge for a few hours.

There have been a small number of things done to me in the past that I will never forgive, I don't let them bother me, I forget them for months, even years at a time but in a small number, of these small number of transgressions I will take my revenge if a situation presents itself without mercy or regret.

If someone had treated me very badly but failed to acknowledge the seriousness of what they had done, and did not show genuine contrition and did not - as far as possible - attempt to put things right, then I would find it difficult, if not impossible, to forgive them.

I think that letting go of the past and acceptance of/coming to terms with what has been done, to prevent being consumed with self-harming bitterness, is a different thing, and that does not make it necessary to forgive the transgressor.

Forgive, forget? Never....

I am torn on this one. There are some people that I will happily never meet again.
Would I go 'out of my way' to harm them or harm myself by keeping angry? No, there are too many positive things to do in life.
Perhaps you now have an insight into how I deal with things - move on and ignore. And go for a ride/paddle/hill day....

I cherish my ability to forgive, it frees me.

[img] [/img]

I'm sorry, Ton. I know I've said it so many times since it happened, but I really am sorry.

You don't need to apologise, 52% of men experience it at some point.

[b]@slowster[/b] - spot on, on both counts, but your thoughts on acknowledging the seriousness and showing genuine contrition are particularly pertinent.

perchypanther - Member
Forgive? ........always

Forget? ..........never. I taught me that.

Sums me up.

Amen to that Ernie

What's the more soulful choice OP ? .... there's your answer

Peace

Forgiveness is over rated.

Rusty Spanner - Member

Forgiveness is over rated.

So you didn't get a kite then?

I'm very hard to really properly anger, but when people manage it, I'm not sure I ever really forgive it, not properly. So it probably works out well on balance, in terms of unforgiven people or whatever, but I suppose it's still not all that healthy! Interesting though. Good question!

If they withheld pudding, or were not particularly enthusiastic about the gift of powerkite/London poppy, than can forget about forgiveness.

ton - Member
or are you a bitter twisted type of person, with a heart of stone?

Minor daily stuff the answer is yes on all matters coz that's life. i.e. foolish idiotic stuff without danger to lives or livelihood.

Harm my family then the answer is no unless the person(s) can turn back the clock. i.e. harm that is highly intentional, planed and premeditated causing danger to lives and livelihood.

ton - Member
or are you a bitter twisted type of person, with a heart of stone?

YES

Lifes too short to hold anger for longer than. A moment, and also those folk who you haven't forgiven?...I bet they don't care

Anger is an emotion that's part of our makeup, it's how it is directed that can be the issue. It would depend on how I'd been wronged and to what degree as to whether I'd forgive. I never forget though regardless of how hard I may try.

I always try, and normally can after a time. It's not really in my nature to hold a grudge, and will often see where I myself have been at fault. That's not a virtue; it's just a personality thing.

if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.

Still totally depends doesn't it.... did they eat your pie or did they do wrong by you in a sinister or horrific manor that makes you want to never speak to them again?

Time is a healer and if 49 years have passed fine and dandy and you can crack on then do so... if you feel sick thinking about it then do something!

Seriously though that pie would have been too old to eat by now anyway!

I am about same age as you ton, If I had found out last year that my dad was Donald Trump, then no, to both 🙂

Fish pie?

iainc......you ****...pissing myself 😆

@ton - Don't listen to them.

Santa IS real.

I am definitely in the hard to forgive camp

if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.

It would totally depend on what it was. Do you still believe in Santa ? (Edit: damn too slow)

My ex-wife found out her aunt was in fact her half sister when she was in her late 30's. It was joyous news.

What's that saying "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

Everyone makes mistakes, hell, I make loads, but one should learn. If it is consistent and spitefull however....

In work, I have recently changed company as my previous was subject to a hostile take-over from a whole bunch of 'C U next tuesday' ex colleagues/friends that I have no desire to ever forgive or forget, or work with, due to patterns of consistent shitieness.

I think it depends on the person and the situation really, friends I generally forgive and forget fairly quickly. Forgive definitely but maybe not forget, but I certainly don't let it bug me for example I've been kept waiting for an hour before for a friend to join me for a ride. I can still remember it but its a friendship so I dont mind, we all have to make acceptances for other people in order to get along.

However, people who profess to love me.... woe betide you, I'll never forget and it'll take me a long time to forgive as well. I mean serious stuff not 'I left the window open in the bathroom'. For example I was a level 3 warning sign for cervical cancer and ended up driving myself there and back for the removal because my OH at the time forgot it was even that day until he rang and was surprised when I said 'I'll be in bed when you get here'. I never forgot and I never forgave. Didnt mean to say I didnt love him nor was I bitter every day but I never forgave it, I wouldn't of trusted him to remember a single other medical appointment. Fool me once as they say!

Friends come and go; enemies accumulate.

I like that. To which I'd also add to Binners black book scenario. Some people when they meet someone new give them no credits and you have to earn them - once you go above a certain level, then you're accepted. I'm the opposite, you start with a level of credit in my eyes, but can gain more or importantly lose them. And if you lose too many and go below a critical level then that's it - you can never get back above the line.

No,life is to short.

For those special people that have really pissed me off and been put on "the List":

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hates sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hates sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

"Khaaaaaaannnnnnnn"!

[i]bitter, twisted[/i]

...that's me. Although I can't remember anyone I'm supposed to hate, so either I've forgiven or forgotten.

perchypanther - Member

Forgive? ........always

Forget? ..........never. Gary Barlow taught me that

... and I have a list too - only two on it. Brothers; for something they did to my dad

beyond that there's one person I wouldn't work with again, in the sense that I'd actually resign rather than do so

I forgive others but rarely myself.

I forget others transgressions but never my own.

Sums me up pretty well! Has led to a few issues with myself at times but I never hold a grudge, trouble is certain people have taken the pee with it and I never learn...

if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.

Really depends on the lie: something to protect you from something nasty it would be ok, something that should have been put right early in the 49 years (eg adopted) then that would be harder and would depend on circumstances and the characters involved.

Aww perchy; whatever I did and whatever I said, I didn't mean it

😆

ton - Member
if you believed something for 49 years of your life, but were then told it was a lie, and were told the truth by the person who had lied to you. that is the scenario.

That's an interesting scenario... Post their death, I found out something about a elderly relative that I held in great affection and esteem. Despite still loving them and remembering them fondly, I'm not sure I feel the same as I did before. In my situation, I don't know enough about the circumstances to understand - let alone forgive. It might be easier if you can learn more about it...

Depends on the circumstances for me but by what Ton's saying I imagine it's quite deep/emotional/pretty serious or traumatic.
I'm like my Mum in that respect & not my Dad. He forgave no-one!

To err is human, to forgive is divine.

Aww perchy; whatever I did and whatever I said, I didn't mean it

So you'll wash his back for good?

I remember forever.

Brief case in point; junior oncologist told my wife and I (wed for two days) that there was 'no hope' of my survival past five years due to advanced metastatic cancer. The lack of compassion or care in his delivery was astonishing; he filled out the paperwork without making eye contact with the same emotion as he would have done writing a shopping list. When pressed he said [i]"...What do you want me to say? That's just the way it is.."[/i]

On the fifth anniversary of that meeting, I attended the department he was now based at in a different county, after taking a non-paid leave day from school. The hospital was in the Midlands, and over 100 miles away from where the original conversation had taken place; I had no appointment, he didn't know I was coming, and I'd researched for four months to find out where he was now based. I had statistics from the last five years in the UK about survivability rates for my cancer, gleaned from the London Sarcoma centre, and presented them and other data to him. He changed the original paperwork to reflect the true data, in the presence of his line manager, who wrote me an amazing letter afterwards about the importance of hope.

Now when someone with cardiac and skeletal metastatic AS in the UK is given the same ****ing diagnosis as I was, they are told that 3.8 percent of people survive past five years. And they can at least have hope, even if everything else counts against them.

And the moral? I'm a genuine arsehole, with a problem with injustice, who carries a brick for a long time and will (sadly) stand to lose out over time because of it.

But I've accepted this.

A 46 year secret reveals itself?

Shit, that's a long time.

So, depends all on what difference knowing what you do now has influenced your life and counter that with trying to get to understand if you knew all along.

I'm still Forgive, never Forget.

Maybe and No ( but time makes you do it eventually and makes it inconsequential .)

I don't forive and forget. However, I'm not vengeful.

Do me over, lie to me or mess me about and I just cut you off entirely or move you so far out to the periphery of my life you can't do it again.

It would depend entirely on the nature of the secret. 49 years is a long time to hold on to something serious and without being in your shoes there is no way of knowing the reasons behind it being kept from you for so long.

I often let the transgression fester inside, building a slow-burning core of resentment which normally reaches a point where that person is entirely cut out of my life. It's unhealthy, and I normally recommend not doing so - with the proviso that some people are utterly toxic and IME is best to move on quickly and invest in better. I have no desire for 'revenge', just for a better life.

Small transgressions (if recognised and repaired) are usually worthy of forgiveness and bridge-building. Life's too short for needless drama. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. But I always have a 'but', and that is usually that people tend towards repetition. Leopards and spots etc.

if you believed something for 49 years of your life...

Genuinely intrigued by this...

I'm struggling to think of anyone I'm bearing any grudges against. A few people I'm glad I no longer have to deal with, lots that I'm grateful to, lots that I miss. 🙂

I'm quick to anger and quick to forgive..
If something upsets me I get it out in the open immediately and try to clear the air.. letting something fester inside will rot your heart..

Equally, once I've said what I need to say I'm usually ready to forgive and forget.. People are capable of change which is how we evolve.. Every one of us makes mistakes and no two people have the same perspective on a situation so who am I to judge another's actions..
It's only those that refuse to consider changing that risk losing my respect

Depends on the level of transgression.

I generally go with the treat me like a * once shame on you, treat me like a * twice shame on me approach and similar to above I just cut the person out of my life, not in a harsh way I just no longer give them a second thought or bother with them, life is too short to put up with people who go through life mistreating others.

bullheart

And the moral? I'm a genuine arsehole...

Couldn't disagree more.

Forgiveness is for the weak.
Never. Under no circumstances. For anything.

here goes, i was brought up solely by my mother, the bloke who i was told was my father left while my mother was pregnant with me.
so it was me, my 2 sisters and my mum.
i saw the bloke who i was told was my father once, when i was 13.
never saw him again. when he died, my sisters asked me if i would go to his funeral. i refused, as i never knew him.

spring forward to last year.
i got a facebook message from a lady, telling me that i was her husbands father. i agreed a blood test to prove otherwise, and in the end it was proven i was not the lads father. i went out with his mum on 2 occasions when i was 16. nothing happened.

so, i told my mum about the whole thing, as i did not want to upset her or my wife with them finding out some other way.
whilst having the conversation, my mother said that she had something to tell me, and hoped i would not get annoyed or be upset.
she then proceeded to tell my, that the man i was told and who i had believed was my father, well, he wasnt. it was a big shock, but i was not annoyed or upset. i did not know him. he was a stranger to me.

she told me who my real dad was, and a bit about him. she told me that my 2 older sisters had known this all my life, as they are older than me. she had also told my younger half sister about it also.

at the time, i let it go. i had too much on my plate to deal with it. i was facing surgery, my wife was poorly with epilepsy. i had more serious stuff to think about.

but recently, i has proper got to me, like i am gonna explode about it.
why did she not tell me when i was young, so i could have maybe met my proper dad.
why did my sister try to get me to go to a blokes funeral who was nothing to me.
why was it kept a secret for so long.
would she have told me at all, if i had not told her about my issue.

i am at the stage where i dont want to go see her, or converse with her.
i have washed my hands with all 3 sister through other reasons, and this has concreted that.
i now feel the same towards my mother.
she is 78 and lives alone. her health is not good, but i feel like i dont really care to be honest.

like I said above Ton...

No two people have the same perspective on a situation and I'm sure that your mum had your best interests at heart, even if she chose a course of action that you can't understand..

Probably the best thing to do is to try to understand what led her to make the decision to lie to you..

There's a lot of shady background to my own life that people tend to clam up over, but I'm not gonna let that get in the way of my relationships with my loved ones..
They've got their reasons and I've learned to respect that

Dude, you need to let it go. It doesn't really matter in the long run, you need to look after your mum. She probably had her reasons for saying what she did in the past and right or wrong reasons it doesn't matter any more.

Much much better to forgive AND forget. Unforgiveness eats you up from inside and infects your whole family, it get passed on from generation to generation if you let it.

That's a huge shock, Tony, and your feelings are fully justified.

But . . . did your mother explain why she (and her family) decided to create this lie? Women were judged very harshly fifty years ago, and she may have felt she was "doing the right thing" for you.

Perhaps knowing a bit more about the circumstances might help you come to terms with this news?

No two people have the same perspective on a situation and I'm sure that your mum had your best interests at heart, even if she chose a course of action that you can't understand..

Probably the best thing to do is to try to understand what led her to make the decision to lie to you

She made what she thought was the best decision even if it wasn't and even if it wasn't the same decision that you would have. Without doubt she didn't do it because she didn't trust you, and once that decision is made it is hugely difficult to reverse for fear of exactly what has happened 🙁

We tend to migrate towards people who think and make decisions on the same basis as us and reject people who do things that we think are wrong - even if those people are people we should really listen to. It's just much easier for us this way and reinforces our own idea of what's right.

The important bit is this 'i was brought up solely by my mother,' - I can't begin to imagine how difficult that is. It's difficult enough with two parents

I am so anti-social that the opportunity to have to forgive someone in the first place rarely occurs.

why was it kept a secret for so long.
would she have told me at all, if i had not told her about my issue.

She obviously couldn't bring herself to tell you, and your issue proved to be the catalyst which gave her the opportunity and courage to tell you. She had probably been wanting to tell you for a very long time.

She won't be around forever, and at 78 with poor health perhaps for not much longer. I can imagine how devastated you must feel but rather than being angry with her be grateful that she did eventually tell you before passing away, you had the right to know the truth.

Don't punish her for doing the right thing, even if it took her 49 years - as others have said I'm sure she had her reasons. If you don't forgive her you will be even more devastated when she finally passes away.

No , carrying a grudge helps me balance the chip on my other shoulder .

It takes quite a lot to get on to my shit list but once on it, there's no getting off. The list currently has three names, possibly four.

Ernie & Leffboy +1.

My heart goes out to you Ton. Having found out something similar a generation removed - it really shook me, so I have an idea of what you are going through.

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