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And I do hope you don’t use hand car washes OP as you’re supporting a lot more dodgy stuff than tax evasion.
People get their cars washed?!
Hang on a grand to take down a tree? Are they removing the timber, chipping etc? Thats £500 quid round here.. two blokes and a chipper
Nope. They're just removing the brushwood* and slicing the trunk into 18" rounds for me to split later on.
* and TBH there's sod all brush as I already paid them 500 quid a few years back in a vain attempt to make it safe and last a few more years.
Balls, just realised this is not my first post about tree costs...
Paid someone £500 ( or was it 600) last year to grind a stump.
Then £500 the year before to remove a lonesome pine.
Then £360 for another beech.
Then another £400 for another beech.
I think the moral of this story is not to be a tree in my garden. It's a perilous existence.
Bloody hell £3,160. Could buy a bike for that.....
Bloody hell £3,160. Could buy a bike for that…..
Some people could, I doubt you're one of them 🙂
Anyway, if you need to offload any of that wood...
Paid someone £500 ( or was it 600) last year to grind a stump
Was probably 600 but 500 for cash!
And I do hope you don’t use hand car washes OP as you’re supporting a lot more dodgy stuff than tax evasion.
You know that Breaking Bad wasn't a documentary, right? (-:
Last time I looked cash is legal tender
Look again for the meaning of "legal tender." It has a narrow legal definition relating to the paying off of debts to creditors, not tree surgeons.
Incidentally,
WTF do tradespeople do with (presumably multiple) several hundred pound cash payments? Do they rock up to the bank with a duffle bag periodically?
They themselves pay for as much as possible in cash, like all their food shopping/petrol/cars for example. Untraceable and therefore untaxable income innit.
Do they rock up to the bank with a duffle bag periodically?
// Cougar goes away to find his sawnoff....
I’d have asked if there was a discount for cash before they offered.
I mean mainly this, unless it's for global megacorp, this is the norm no?
If everyone stopped using Amazon and paid their local tree surgeon £1000 cash to chop down a tree that would show em wouldn’t it
I’ve never had a stranger offer me a discount for cash.
I’ve never had a stranger offer me illegal drugs.
A stranger in a pub once told me I looked like an undercover cop. This could be related to the first two facts.
Nope. They’re just removing the brushwood* and slicing the trunk into 18″ rounds for me to split later on.
* and TBH there’s sod all brush as I already paid them 500 quid a few years back in a vain attempt to make it safe and last a few more years.
Balls, just realised this is not my first post about tree costs…
Paid someone £500 ( or was it 600) last year to grind a stump.
Then £500 the year before to remove a lonesome pine.
Then £360 for another beech.
Then another £400 for another beech.
I think the moral of this story is not to be a tree in my garden. It’s a perilous existence.
Bloody hell £3,160. Could buy a bike for that…..
It sounds like you have a massive garden, one tree in my garden would take up the entire place!
Is it worth looking into hiring a groundkeeper, might be cheaper in the long run for your estate 😂
There are three things I pay cash for - kebabs from the trailer at the entrance to the business park just off the A350, fish and chips from the Chinese owned chippy a,ing the roa, and my tattoos, the artists rent a space in a studio in the marketplace in town. Once upon a time I used to pay cash for haircuts, but I do my own now.
I did pay cash to the team who cut about four feet off the top of my garden hedges. They spent several hours cutting and chipping it all, and they’re a legit business, recommended by a friend I’ve known since he was a nipper, and who has his own business, been going for some years. I guess it’s easier to divvy the money out between them at the end of the job.
I don’t care, it’s their concern, not mine as to how they all manage their finances. Nor anyone else, apart from the government.
They probably need cash because that's all the guy with the really cheap chipper for sale will accept and they need to buy it to replace the one that got stolen.
OP, you need a forestry handcutter - they work faster, harder and smarter. We spent 2 days on a roadside job with a winch that a tree surgeon quoted 2 weeks to dismantle with traffic management. Even if they had a cash price it wouldn't have come close.
Saturday morning quick job I'm ok with a bit of cash but anything more and it's taking the piss.
They themselves pay for as much as possible in cash, like all their food shopping/petrol/cars for example. Untraceable and therefore untaxable income innit.
They pay their suppliers in cash so the circle carries on.
They pay "employees" in cash but there's no tax or NIC paid either. And possibly not even minimum wage.
Not all cash takers are on the fiddle, but a lot are. Anyone paying a fiver for a hand car wash is almost certainly supporting tax avoidance, minimum wage violations and potentially much worse.
If you earn enough to pay the tax to fund the education you got, or your kids are getting, the health care you and your family have had, the pension you will get, etc etc just ****ing pay it and be grateful you are earning enough to do so.
If a tree surgeon chops down a tree for cash does it make a sound?
As in shhh, don't tell anyone?
“ You're paying for prisons.
You're paying for war.
You're paying for lobotomies.
You're paying for law.
You're paying for their order.
You're paying for their murder.
Paying for your ticket
To watch the farce.
Knowing you've made you're contribution
To the systems ****ed solution,
To their political pollution.
No chance of revolution.
No chance of change.
You've got no range.
Don't just take it.
Don't take their shit.
Don't' play their game.
Don't take their blame.
USE YOUR OWN HEAD.
Your turn instead.“
Crass.
We've got friends who have a multi generational family all in building trades. Nicest people you could meet. But so ingrained in a cash culture as to be entirely blind to what it might look like from the outside. It can be awkward at times. Matriarch of the family (Pam Shipman from Gavin and Stacey is her doppelganger) regularly goes off on one about how seriously underfunded our amazing NHS (a full bore doorstep pot bashing supporter of our wonderful heros) is by government after government without appreciating the irony. Every aspect of running the family home is run with cash. Was incensed that the self employed covid furlough equivalent was not doing much for son number 1 and something should be sorted to help him out. Apparently the government knows that what he really earns is not what is on the SA so it wasn't fair to only offer support on declared income. Son number 2 was fine though as he'd been putting more through the books as he was putting a case together for a mortgage so at least he'd be getting back what wasted on his tax return. Daughter in law works in the back office of a building supplies company. Gets minimum wage in theory but every month meets her boss off site (always off site) for a coffee and a brown envelope that triples that.
I think they live in a world that operates like this so much I genuinely don't think it being wrong is even vaguely on their radar.
I know tradies that take cash jobs to hide the money from their family so they can spend it on boys toys etc.
One guy swapped his year old Yeti frame and forks for a brand new one and when his wife noticed the forks were now orange explained that he'd just put a new sticker kit on.
Oh the hypocracy of all this. The handwringing theoretical socialists of STW actually objecting to the corner stone of the hard working tradesman. I don't see Jim Radcliffe asking for cash. But i do see the chap making every bob he can doing it if possible. Why? Because the system that penalises you for working hard is fundamentally unfair. Plenty of people here rant on about the honest working man,fair of mind, inclusive to all, screwed by big business when thats the person who is doing what the tearful socialist objects to. Where do you see the Daily Mail? Shoved in the front window of the one man band builders van!
And I do hope you don’t use hand car washes OP as you’re supporting a lot more dodgy stuff than tax evasion.
You know that Breaking Bad wasn’t a documentary, right? (-:
Unseen report (linky) I did note the smiley, but it's really happening
WTF do tradespeople do with (presumably multiple) several hundred pound cash payments?
Pay other trades to do work for them .
Was incensed that the self employed covid furlough equivalent was not doing much for son number 1 and something should be sorted to help him out. Apparently the government knows that what he really earns is not what is on the SA so it wasn’t fair to only offer support on declared income
I know a lot of genuine self employed people got screwed over by the Covid schemes, but a couple of acquaintances who have been open that they play the system to minimise their tax bill got very upset when I pointed out that they couldn't have it both ways.
Because the system that penalises you for working hard is fundamentally unfair.
How, exactly?
As someone who runs a village shop, Ive around a £5 basket spend from customers on average.... I'd much rather have cash everytime....
I can bank onsite as ive a postoffice as part of the shop so the money goes straight into the bank account every day, I also get paid for putting the money in. I also get a commission everytime someone withdraws cash. With cards it's the other way around, I have to pay the bank (card merchant, who then inturns pays fee to the banks) for every card transaction, and I have to wait for the days takings to hit my bank account.
Cash is extremely useful part of my business that's helps with cash flow. It's also all goes through a till and is completely traceable, from invoices to bills, it's a vat registered business so the tax man can see how much I'm spending Vs buying and work out margins.
Over the last 2 yrs I've gone from a 60-80% cash buisness to a 60-80% cards. My card fees have increased by around double - a cost I have to pass on to the customer which inturn increases prices.
Cards are a useful form of payment and have a time and a place - but they are primarily a way of the banks retaining your money and making more for themselves. Chip and pin, and more recently contactless are designed primarily as money making tools for the bank and convenient for the consumer secondarily.
The banks are the ones we should be pointing fingers at not the working class.... Just imo
I paid £1500 for a tree felling, but it was a big job involving 3 men for 3 days, up a rope and taking it down slice by slice, which they left for me to struggle with! My mum paid £150 for an apple tree that had blown over, which seemed reasonable. I could have done that myself had I been able to visit, but they seemed to do a good job.
My quote was minus VAT but he explained he was careful to keep under threshold. He had more than one business doing distinct work. I assumed he was kosher but I guess there must be a point at which running multiple businesses under VAT threshold looks dodgy.
I use cash once a week to pay the £1.50 range fee at my shooting club. Proper 1980's pricing!
Something i always remember growing up, and into adulthood was the number of trades folk who worked all day, then spent the weekend in the pub and bookies until every penny was gone!
COVID did a lot to kill off cash payments, always remember before it that paying under a fiver on your card wasn't normal, now folk are paying with their card or phone for a pack of chewing gum, it's become the norm, i don't think i've had change in my pocket for ages, feel bad every time i go past someone with a charity tin, as i genuinely have no cash on me these days.
Thought that this problem got fixed with the COVID grants where they were made based on declared income.
I won't support small tradesman tax-dodging. They're the first to complain if their house gets broken into or the roads fall apart.
The handwringing theoretical socialists of STW actually objecting to the corner stone of the hard working tradesman. I don’t see Jim Radcliffe asking for cash. But i do see the chap making every bob he can doing it if possible. Why? Because the system that penalises you for working hard is fundamentally unfair. Plenty of people here rant on about the honest working man,fair of mind, inclusive to all, screwed by big business when thats the person who is doing what the tearful socialist objects to.
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
I can't see there would be too many people who find cash economy circumvention for tax evasion purposes distasteful who would not also find the tax avoidance (the legal but immoral tax avoidance kind) of big business highly objectionable too. It's fine to dislike both.
The hypocrisy comes when one group knowingly not paying their way complain about another without acknowledging their personal 'sins'. You don't get to complain about funding of the NHS or the state education system if you business is mostly run off the books and neither do you get to complain about 'benefit scroungers' claiming for fake ailments. You are just as guilty as the latter and you are not contributing to the former.
Of course we could all spiral into a pit of doom by using the adage 'well, why should I do the right thing when they are not?'.....
I find mentioning that I work for HMRC solves this problem quite quickly.
You get a bigger discount, I assume?
COVID did a lot to kill off cash payments, always remember before it that paying under a fiver on your card wasn’t normal, now folk are paying with their card or phone for a pack of chewing gum, it’s become the norm, i don’t think i’ve had change in my pocket for ages,
This 👆 - just remember that this is also having an effect of driving up the costs of goods as margins have to be reinforced as per my post above.
It’s the mindset in this country that if we don’t pay tax it’s a win. It’s also the mindset to grumble when we can’t get a GP appointment the same day, we don’t see coppers walking down the street and the rubbish in the road. The connection between the two isn’t made, you get what you pay for in life and good public services cost. Tax should be seen as a pro social, positive thing to do but isn’t. I get peoples indifference and antagonism and it pisses me off but just because the guy next to me is stealing a 75 inch mega tv doesn’t mean I should Nick a toaster!
If you think it needs to be reported, report it
Then HMRC can have a look into things.
The connection between the two isn’t made, you get what you pay for in life and good public services cost.
There isn't a connection anymore, you pay more and the Tories and their chums syphon off as much as they can. Whatever services they can't afford to run effectively on the money that is left, they sell off.
The handwringing theoretical socialists of STW actually objecting to the corner stone of the hard working tradesman.
And there it is.
There are small business owners who DO play by the rules, and they are the ones who are taking the hit, as not only are their taxes subsidising those who dont pay their fair share, but they are also loosing business because they cant compete on price. Corner stone of the hard working tradesman my arse, F[stuff] those guys
Solution is simple though.
If you can afford it, and stomach it, give the job to the guy who DIDNT offer to do it at 16% discount and, as far as you can assess without checking on his tax returns, appears to be playing above board.
not foolproof, granted, but at the end of the day all you can do is vote with your money.
The connection between the two isn’t made, you get what you pay for in life and good public services cost.
But equally the connection between tax/public money and government spending and wastage isn't made. Whenever there's a news report on what our taxes are being spent on, it's "the government is spending/investing", it should be "the government is spending / using Your taxes to....."
The connection between the two isn’t made, you get what you pay for in life and good public services cost
the average idiot cant understand big numbers (of money or population)
work out how much someone on an average wage pays in income tax, minus any tax credits, child benefits etc. Plus council tax, and add on VAT from their spending and tell them how much tax they pay a year.
Then tell them how much a pothole costs to fill, or what a small insignificant piece of military hardware costs, or the tabloid favourite, what a nurse costs.
Cards are a useful form of payment and have a time and a place – but they are primarily a way of the banks retaining your money and making more for themselves. Chip and pin, and more recently contactless are designed primarily as money making tools for the bank and convenient for the consumer secondarily.
I can't say I agree with that - I get paid straight into my bank account (as many/most? people do) and a card is way more convenient than having to go to a cash machine on a regular basis, even if it does mean slightly higher prices due to processing costs etc. It's not just the bank that benefits.
It’s not just the bank that benefits.
I see this too. A capacity for a cashless society has a very real benefit to me me as a consumer. Indeed, as a shop keeper there must be a benefit too. Pretty much every customer that walks through your door (of a low item value shop) has the ability to buy as much as they please of your wares - they are not restricted by the number of coins/notes they might just have in their pocket. This surely drives up sales too?
Knocking through a wall and a RSJ then thought the books please.
Agreed - been there – a large building project done as a cash deal (he was the partner of a work colleague so we trusted him). An honest mistake resulted in some pretty serious water damage but he couldn't claim on his insurance as it was cash. We sorted it eventually and he gave us some extra work FOC but given what happened I wouldn't risk it again.
I find mentioning that I work for HMRC solves this problem quite quickly.
You get a bigger discount, I assume?
I never got to top up the old £1k C2W scheme limit, those offers got withdrawn quite quickly 🤣
I agree with comments about the disconnect between tax and public services. Just because the Tories syphon that money to mates doesn't change the basic facts. And the stealing a TV/toaster metaphor (simile?) is spot on.
edit - reply to monkeyboy's shop post
I understand that I am paying a small premium for the convenience in what sounds like a corner shop/village shop type place. Mid day snacks, midweek pint of milk, newspaper type stuff.
The time I save is more than worth the small upcharge for what is neccesarily a less efficient operation than a large supermarket.
As the only or main cashier you are avoiding the main worry of employee theft, and having the post office on site you have avoided the need for a weekly or daily bank trip. These arent typical of many businesses.
However (as most peoples wages, benefits, pensions are electronic) unless there is a free to use ATM either exceedingly near to your shop, or otherwise completely convenient for all your customers, then cash purchases are pushing the time and cost onus of aquiring and managing physical currency onto your customers.
(apart from those tradesmen with a pocket full of tax free cash to dump that is)
However (as most peoples wages, benefits, pensions are electronic) unless there is a free to use ATM either exceedingly near to your shop, or otherwise completely convenient for all your customers, then cash purchases are pushing the time and cost onus of aquiring and managing physical currency onto your customers.
100% Free cash withdrawal from the postoffice on site - I also know of several small post offices and shops that have completely removed the seperate till card payment machine and take only cash withdrawal payment, by using their postoffice facility. This is specifically due to the increase in use and associated fees.
This has some positives, mainly increase in trade through the postoffice and confirmation that its a required service that shouldn't be removed from small sites, but also some negatives as you can only serve one customer at a time.
I stared a thread on this about a year ago, moving towards a cashless society? but the general consensus was (in now typical stw fashion) stop moaning and conform.
I think people should just be aware that although there are benefits of card and bank payments, there are also negatives for some.
I never refuse a card payment, ever. Card had become my default transaction type -but id rather take cash if I can. I'm one very small business and our card transaction fees have doubled, adding thousands in additional costs over the last two years, this has added in a small but significant part to the current rise in cost of living.
I never refuse a card payment, ever. Card had become my default transaction type -but id rather take cash if I can. I’m one very small business and our card transaction fees have doubled, adding thousands in additional costs over the last two years, this has added in a small but significant part to the current rise in cost of living.
So, genuine question as I don't know the answer - If I walked into your shop and spent say £3.25 on some bread, milk and a chocolate bar, how much of that £3.25 would end up in fees you would have to pay because I did use notes/coins? Or is it not as simple as that - are there fixed or sliding usage fees beyond the single transaction fee?
I'm afraid if I got to a shop and wanted to spend £3.25 and the shop keeper said sorry no, but you can use this free atm in the shop to withdraw some cash to make the purchase I'm afraid the sale would be lost. Simply because I don't want/need £6.75 in my pocket to use at some undetermined point in the future.