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Had a couple of quotes for cutting down a big tree in the garden, both about a grand. Both of them asked if I'll be paying cash, and gave a lower price for that option.
I found this really odd, and even more so as I was wondering what sort of person routinely answers yes to this. The country is in a shit shape, especially things which depend on tax income, like schools, bin collections, hospitals, police etc etc
What is it with some people that they think " **** that, I'll not pay my taxes, I'll just leach off everyone else"
Is that a common mentality? How do people justify that....
Then I thought about Google and Amazon and their taxes, and Tesco and its blatant planning regs contraventions and all those huge companies paying minimum wage in the knowledge that state will pick up the slack in tax credits etc.
And big companies offshoring stuff and splitting profits into brand use and other sorts of toss tax avoidance.
If these huge companies are getting away with it ( legally), is it fair of me to diss the smaller traders for breaking the law to try to save a bob?
Do you pay cash for stuff to avoid VAT?
Do you expect others to pay their tax to make up *your* shortfall?
Or do you just think that everyone is playing the shit system so fair enough if nobody pays any tax at all.... WGAS..
There are other fees that may be incurred through bank transfer payments, IIRC. That may be why they would prefer cash. But they may also be on the fiddle.
I found this really odd
Really?
Personally I don't care. The whole game's rigged so wtf. Cost of living etc et blah blah...
Out of interest what was the discount for cash?
Then I thought about Google and Amazon and their taxes, and Tesco and its blatant planning regs contraventions and all those huge companies paying minimum wage in the knowledge that state will pick up the slack in tax credits etc.
And big companies offshoring stuff and splitting profits into brand use and other sorts of toss tax avoidance.
Not just large companies. People are seeing government ministers offshoring too and pretty much deciding that they're less interested in the greater good than individual needs of their own families and themselves.
You reap what you sow, and its been led from the top.
Hard round my way to find a turkish barber or kebab shop taking cards.
Last time I mentioned this it appears I'm racist.
They don't want to put it though the books for blindingly obvious reasons. If that gives you a big discount, why not?
Depends if I want a warranty / insurance cover.
A bit of garden brickwork over a weekend then sure cash. Knocking through a wall and a RSJ then thought the books please.
they don’t want to put it though the books for obvious reasons.
Mislaid their pen?
What a sheltered life you live OP 🙂
Mislaid their pen?
Indeed. 🙂
Out of interest what was the discount for cash?
One of them was 16.6'% so exactly the VAT, the other was a hundred quid off (11%), which presumably is intended to give me a bit of a discount and him a bit of danger money.
Dyna-ti quite true.
If that gives you a big discount, why not?
Well, lots of reasons, as per OP. Digging a bit deeper, is your standpoint based on the expectation that others will pay your share, a realisation that the system's ****ed anyway, or just a simple " I'm alright Jack PoV"?
They're simply acting as per Adam Smith's invisible hand (with cash in).
the first is not charging you VAT, but he’ll still earn more as he’s not declaring the income either… this is “sort of ok”*. The 2nd is charging you some of the VAT but he’s obviously not paying it OR declaring the income, so is massively taking the piss & mugging both you & HMRC off. Probably a cowboy, as a lot of “tree surgeons” are!One of them was 16.6’% so exactly the VAT, the other was a hundred quid off (11%), which presumably is intended to give me a bit of a discount and him a bit of danger money.
some mug has to stump up for the Gov’s mates’ bogus PPE contracts or redecorating Boris’ new flat, might as well be you* 😂Well, lots of reasons, as per OP
(*Devil’s advocate, of course.)
Tax dodging isn't just for the rich.
Did they have this T shirt on
I find mentioning that I work for HMRC solves this problem quite quickly.
EDIT: beaten by seconds
I'd have asked if there was a discount for cash before they offered.
To be honest, I've no idea why they would want cash. The new plastic stuff is horrible. It doesn't fold for a start so you can't make a fat wedge with a fold every hundred in a used car/market trader stylee. It doesn't stay rolled up in a tube so you cant' erm... And also my local has stopped accepting cash full stop so it's essentially worthless.
The new plastic stuff is horrible.
Useful if you slash a sidewall of your tyre
Honestly, we're getting screwed over left right and centre by every big corp and our own government so who gives a shit.
And also my local has stopped accepting cash full stop so it’s essentially worthless.
send it on to me and I'll repurpose it, if its of no use to you
Hard round my way to find a turkish barber or kebab shop taking cards.
Last time I mentioned this it appears I’m racist
None of the Chinese round my way take cards. Kebab place does though.
We are moving into a very stressed economy, particularly for self employed, small business etc.
You will see more of this going gorward not less.
Hang on a grand to take down a tree? Are they removing the timber, chipping etc? Thats £500 quid round here.. two blokes and a chipper
Tell them to do it for £500 or you'll report them to HMRC for attempted tax fraud. 😁
Is it really a grand to cut down a tree? I had two conifers removed from outside my old house, one was as tall as the house and one slightly shorter, I think it cost me about 80 quid.
It doesn’t stay rolled up in a tube so you cant’ erm…
Meaning it goes back into your wallet more easily after you've erm...
some mug has to stump up
Isn't that what he's paying them for?
If they're not putting it through Vat they're not paying tax either so ask for another 15% off.
Hang on a grand to take down a tree? Are they removing the timber, chipping etc? Thats £500 quid round here.. two blokes and a chipper
**** me . Wonder why the op had a boy bother to come round and quote.
Should have just fired on here with a rather prosaic description of "big tree" and you lot would have bid down for the work....
Hang on a grand to take down a tree? Are they removing the timber, chipping etc? Thats £500 quid round here.. two blokes and a chipper
It really depends on the tree and the immediate environment...
My mates a qualified tree surgeon and you wouldn't belive the amount of regulations involved.
They have to survey any job to make sure it's all legal, no protection orders, not going to effect bats or birds, or whatever, so theres a cost there.
Especially if its near a pubilc road or path, you've got to get council permits and block off part of the road or pavement.... you need all the insurance cover..
Then like you say there's waste removal, so a chipper and removal of the chippings... it's not a small undertaking to do it all by the book, if it's a large tree.
Think I'm with the OP really. It's difficult to rage about Amazon etc dodging tax when I'll immediately do the same given the chance. It's even worse now that it's so blatant from our 'leaders'. But it's like lots of things - expecting the rest of the world to match your particular set of values is a losing game.
Tell them to do it for £500 or you’ll report them to HMRC for attempted tax fraud.
Hmmm. Tell 2 men who own a selection of axes, chainsaws and an evidence removing chipper you'll report them to the taxman, which could have them ending up in court or prison.
0/10 for good sense.
If these huge companies are getting away with it ( legally), is it fair of me to diss the smaller traders for breaking the law to try to save a bob?
Yes. You have to take the high ground, everyone does, otherwise the whole system collapses. I don't have the opportunity to be paid in cash, nor do many people, so it's hardly the last word in fairness.
I don't like cash in hand, I've never been comfortable with it.
I know one couple who the plastering husband puts 50% in cash / personal account out the way of taxman - buys great holiday every year and his wife a nice car every few years. And live in council house (natch). And first to complain about wealthy people.
Don't hate the player, hate the game... 😀
Plus theres a bit of a difference between Amazon not paying tax whilst making billions in profit and paying thier staff low wages, and Jonny the carpenter with his apprentice saving a hunderd quid here and there.
Or maybe not, in terms of pure logic, but the game is rigged against the normal working person, look at rees mogg, he quickly offshored his dubious company to ROI, whilst simultaiously crowing on about the benefits of brexit.
exactly, it’s vital that the little guy at the bottom of the pile follows the rules slavishly, those at the top rely on it & wouldn’t be able to live the lives they do of money/power/influence otherwise. Oh, whoops, thought this was the religion thread 😂 as you were 😀Yes. You have to take the high ground
Yes. You have to take the high ground, everyone does, otherwise the whole system collapses. I don’t have the opportunity to be paid in cash, nor do many people, so it’s hardly the last word in fairness.
The system is already about 2/3rds of the way through a collapse. If every tree surgeon in the country stopped paying their VAT and Tax it'd make 3/8ths of eff all difference compared to the billions that Amazon/Starbucks/Apple etc don't pay and the billions that have been siphoned off by friends of the Tory party and their failed/over-running projects...
Not to mention the last 10+ years of austerity.
I've paid cash.
I've been paid in cash.
And sometimes I've even bartered and not declared it as income! 🙂
There's lot's of ways to avoid tax, being paid in cash is a simple one for those without good accountants.
And I do hope you don't use hand car washes OP as you're supporting a lot more dodgy stuff than tax evasion.
The system is already about 2/3rds of the way through a collapse. If every tree surgeon in the country stopped paying their VAT and Tax it’d make 3/8ths of eff all difference compared to the billions that Amazon/Starbucks/Apple etc don’t pay and the billions that have been siphoned off by friends of the Tory party and their failed/over-running projects…
Not to mention the last 10+ years of austerity.
That is a good way of putting it.
TBF a lot of tree-work/gardeners and firewood suppliers often deal in cash. They rarely carry a card machine and operate in the countryside buying and selling 'on sight'. It's not just to avoid tax, which is not a huge amount anyhow...£1k sounds a bit steep though
Nothing wrong with paying cash, it's up to the tradesperson to then do their tax returns and so on, if they don't then it's up to them, i've known a load who do cash in hand jobs and a couple who have been investigated due to folk grassing on them, that's the usual way folk get caught, more envy from neighbours or 'friends' rather than tax investigators!
And the IR aren't stupid - if they see loads of invoices coming in and VAT being reclaimed but these figures don't tally with what the turnover should be in relation to those purchases and income drawn they will investigate. Anyone who just deals in cash will found out eventually (as my uncle did back in the 80s and got fined 10k).
There's always been a cash economy and I'd imagine it's a lot less now than it ever was.
And as for take-aways - the card machine always seems to be broken in the ones we use. Amazing that! 🙂
Last time I looked cash is legal tender
What they do with your money is up to them. What's to say they will pay tax on a bank transfer- it's an honesty based system.
Do you ask to see the tax return of everyone you buy off?
Just pay the man cash and tell him he
I never ask to be paid cash. Always tell the customer to pay whatever way is convenient for them. Have been asked "discount for cash?" generally by people who can easily afford to pay the full amount. Works both ways.