53, no degree, white male, even have a Vito.
Committed remainer.
With recent polling don’t believe Labour actually need to pander to the thick racist halfwits anymore so getting a bit cheesed off with the strategy.
male, 50 years old, without a university degree but with a decent job in the private sector and, crucially, a homeowner with a mortgage. This person almost certainly voted leave
That's me. But I didn't vote.
I was wondering why Starmer was sticking to a hard brexit
Poring over focus groups, polling and tactics can only take you so far, but I understand why he's doing it. There is no point coming out against Brexit 18 months before an election and giving the tories a solid attack point to use to regain lost ground. At the moment this voter group will be far more likely to support Labour because of the economic circumstances, and Labour needs to focus on that.
Can't pretend it isn't disheartening to watch an opposition leader not prepared to speak the obvious truth about Brexit - but he can rely on the majority of votes from people who voted remain, I suspect, who else are we going to vote for?
I suppose I should cling to the hope that if elected with a sufficient majority, he can then set his sights on closer relationships with Europe because the number of people still backing Brexit is dwindling every day.
yes, no, no, yes, yes, certainly bloody didn't.
Ian Lavery, the MP for the north-eastern seat of Wansbeck, said: “Lots of Labour-supporting Brexit voters at the last election thought that our position on Europe was basically telling them that we thought they were wrong. We need to win back trust with exactly those people.”
These people are utter *
He wants to win their trust by lying to them. Great.
don’t believe Labour actually need to pander to the thick racist halfwits anymore so getting a bit cheesed off with the strategy.
Exactly.
but he can rely on the majority of votes from people who voted remain, I suspect, who else are we going to vote for?
Interesting viewpoint which starmer clearly shares. But I don't agree. My [ wasted] vote will be going LibDem again. There is no way I will give my vote to Labour whilst they pander to *
Voted leave and would do again if it was for a true leave and not this half arse crap we have now.
Eh? We have a hard Brexit. You won.
The calculation for Labour is that many remainers, however disappointed they may be with a lack of rejoin/anti Brexit will still vote labour regardless as being preferable to the Torys.
It's a bit like how mandleson viewed the working class - they've nowhere else to go.
It is a risk (remainers may go green, lib dem), but the prize is 50/mortgage/no uni man may vote for Labour next time.
In many seats centerist dad types have few viable options beyond 'wasting' their vote on a 3rd or 4th party
It’s a bit like how mandleson viewed the working class – they’ve nowhere else to go.
They did go elsewhere...
@ransos yes, they did go elsewhere that's why I said it was a risk.
But it took until the indy ref in Scotland and Brexit ref in England to shift those voters to the SNP/Johnson's conservatives
Perhaps they think it's a risk worth taking and that hard-firm remainers are boxed in. But it may not work.
I think the current labour coalition will hold in 2024 as more of an anti Tory vote, but I think it will splinter after that.
43. Mortgage paid off in September this year. Scot. Remainer. Can't vote labour. Will continue to vote SNP and pursue independence.
…..and therein lies the problem. Appeasing that lot isn’t going to go far enough in resolving the rot this country now faces.
It's what got us in this mess in the first place.
Not happy with the Labour alternative, but I fear I'm going to have to avoid the trap of letting my desire for perfect ruin the chance of better.
At some point,a grown up is going to have to put the facts on the table and point out what Brexit has actually cost us and start talking about solving those problems.
I rate Clive Lewis, Andy Burnham, Lisa Nandy, Emily Thornberry and of course, Angela Rayner
Can I add Jess Phillips?
Hiya,
For me the article in the Guardian, sums it all up. The focus on the Brex5h1t voters is rubbish.
What about those that voted remain and who's conviction to still be in the EU remains. It destroyed my working life, so personally I couldn't give a flying F about those that chose isolation and division.
The focus on the Grumps is what is damaging this country and I personally couldn't care less about them, they didn't care about me when they voted so why should I care for their opinions.
JeZ
What about those that voted remain and who’s conviction to still be in the EU remains.
Because statistically you're not a swing voter. You've already decided (one way or the other) and there's not much point trying to get you to change your mind.
Hiya,
For me the article in the Guardian, sums it all up. The focus on the Brex5h1t voters is rubbish.
What about those that voted remain and who’s conviction to still be in the EU remains
They think you will vote Labour regardless, that you are in the bag already. They will therefore chase the votes of Brexit types
54
No education to speak of (x2 low grade CSE’s!!😬)
Mortgage paid off.
Voted remain as I had no major conviction either way - remain mainly based on the old saying ‘it’s better to be on the inside pissing out, than the outside pissing in’.
But no idea who to vote for next time - other than ‘we’re not Tory’, Labour haven’t put forward any coherant plans to get us out of the problems we are in.
I think a cycling (arguable I know) forum is basically going to self-select remainers, so there’s hardly much point in us all saying that archetype doesn’t describe us.
Exactly, the responses are just confirming it is a largely remain, left leaning group.
I don't fit the archetype either as 54, no degree, good job, mortgage. As has been pointed out, back in the time I was 18 it was not assumed you would go to University just because and people tended to go for an actual reason/career at the end of it rather than something to do or because even low level jobs now require a degree.
However, Starmers only approach to winning an election is to get the swing voters to swing to Labour as that is how it works. Putting out a very radical agenda is not going to make any difference as the hard tories will vote tory whatever and could never bring themselves to vote Labour anymore that I could ever vote tory.
But no idea who to vote for next time – other than ‘we’re not Tory’, Labour haven’t put forward any coherant plans to get us out of the problems we are in.
"Some" of that will be because if the ideas poll well, there's enough time for the Conservatives to pinch the plan leaving Labour with nothing for the election.
Just because you voted remain doesn’t mean you’re not a swing voter. When Labour swings to the left not everyone follows them.
50, staunchly remain, degree, decent private sector job, mortgage.
Lifelong Conservative voter, but won't ever do it again. I even wrote to my local MP to let her know why (which I have never done before either). Surprisingly I got a response.
He has my profile largely wrong, but I hope to be part of the movement that removes this shameful, incompetent, self-serving bunch a bloody nose in 2 years. I know that a vote for Labour will personally cost me more, but the greater good and all that.
54, no university education, not worked for a while as no real need to, paid the mortgage off a few years ago and voted remain as i really felt that was the best thing to do (and still do)
Never have and never will vote tory, though I'm not tied to any other way of voting and will go with what i feel at the time.
Living in Scotland but not made my mind up about independence up here yet. Like the chance of getting back into Europe bit but unsure about other stuff.
As for what Labour needs to do to win an election. Given the current shambles I think a remit of “not * up big time” would suffice for a win. However, I’m not sure they are capable of that. Starmer really pisses me off and I’m a woke snowflake lefty – who happens to be a europhile who compares back pedalling with official policy which * it somewhat. I’ll vote LibDem if ever they let me vote in a “foreign constituency”.
Earlier this year you went running off to the mods claiming i was purposefully trying to avoid the swear filter because i was using * instead of actual letters. You had me banned from the forum for a week. It would be nice if, in being so aggressive in your morality, you actually stuck to it.
Because statistically you’re not a swing voter. You’ve already decided (one way or the other) and there’s not much point trying to get you to change your mind.
Untrue. I used to vote Labour religiously, but since they have started courting the **** vote I have switched to Lib Dem. How much more of a swing voter is it possible to be?
I think the way our constituency boundaries are set up forces them to focus on swing voters. Most left leaning people are concentrated in small pockets e.g. every city in England (the other countries of the UK are obviously different). Labour can't win just by getting a higher proportion of the vote in those constituencies. Would be interesting to know what kind of areas all the above "middle aged mortgage man except I voted remain" live in - maybe I'm wrong!
They think you will vote Labour regardless, that you are in the bag already. They will therefore chase the votes of Brexit types
It's the same thinking as when they used to weigh rather than count working class votes. It might work for one election, but ultimately it's a dead end.
Untrue.
True - statistically you're not a swing voter. At least according to their analysis. Individuals will, of course, be different, but (at least in theory) not enough to make a difference.
55
No degree
Small business owner (16 employees)
Mortgage
Very much a remainer
I've thought for a while now it would be better for UK politics if those who are economically liberal and socially progressive, centerist and remain/rejoin orientated supported what is prima facie their natural home which to me is lib dem
We’ll never get real political change in this country until we get proportional representation.
As to the thread - the title is close, the description is not.
It's not just boundaries it's the entire system. It why we have had such a long conservative run and why we have poor choice, a lot of people vote against not for.
These people are utter *
And this is the other reason. Someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily a *. If you want change you need to understand people's motivation and work with them. If you say all Tories voters are ****s then say everyone that votes leave is a **** then it will be practically impossible for anyone but the mutilated mess of a conservative party to get in. You don't have to appease people but you have to listen to them and not just yell at them and call them names like a stroppy teenager. This is race to the bottom politics and allows all this culture war crap.
It's a shame there appears to be something about getting a mortgage that makes a man dead inside.
True – statistically you’re not a swing voter. At least according to their analysis. Individuals will, of course, be different, but (at least in theory) not enough to make a difference.
Now I'm confused can you elaborate a bit please?
Hey,
The problem is really the conservatives I don't agree with the stance of labour but if I vote green I give the election to the conservatives. I don't like this policy at all to be honest but the prospect of having another 5 years of the Tory's is enough to make me vote tactically, just to get rid of them.
BR
Jerry
52, paid mortgage, degree, work as a builder, waiting for Irish citizenship to come through, remainer.
Know Lots of leavers who all have reasons for voting to leave Europe. They'd never vote Starmer no matter how many focus groups whisper in his ear. There's too much casual bigotry in politics on all social media platforms including here. Everyone shouting but very few listening to opinions they don't like or understanding why people have them.
Untrue. I used to vote Labour religiously, but since they have started courting the **** vote I have switched to Lib Dem. How much more of a swing voter is it possible to be?
If you were in a seat where the contest was effectively between the Conservatives and Labour would you still vote Lib Dem? Labour think that at the moment people will vote for a party to beat the Tories. I've got a friend who is very much against independence but has voted SNP as the likely alternative was a Tory. For me I feel I can safely vote Lib Dem as the seat tends to move between them and Labour.
Everyone shouting but very few listening to opinions they don’t like or understanding why people have them.
When the people who have the opinions I don't like can't explain them they are not off to a good start are they. Some simple cursory questions soon tie the tories I work with in knots but they can't ever vote Labour because, you know.
When you're struggling with your mental health you're often advised to moderate your alcohol intake and use of social media. Politics should be added to that list.
Some of you should do not help yourselves. Is this the affluents version of self harm?
48 years old according to the statistics provided earlier in the thread - among 30% of my peers went to university as I did.
Lifelong socialist and remainer.
And here's me thinking it might be relatively easy to actually offer some good ideas to coax voters when the Tories have made such a mess of things.
Starmer taking an approach several years too late.
When you’re struggling with your mental health you’re often advised to moderate your alcohol intake and use of social media. Politics should be added to that list.
Maybe, have you tried it?
As someone who is not struggling with my mental health I wouldn't need to worry about it.
If you were in a seat where the contest was effectively between the Conservatives and Labour would you still vote Lib Dem?
Yes, I did 🙁
At the last election Brady beat Labour by 6k. Libdems were a further 14k behind.
Labour think that at the moment people will vote for a party to beat the Tories.
More fool them. I'll vote for them when they growaset and stop appeasing ****
