Does anyone who isn't Jewish or reliant on jews for political influence actually support Israel?
Dr J is bang on there - the way israel is behaving at the moment is making the whole world hate them.
Well, me for starters, Papa.
The title of this thread is inflammatory in the very least and has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments from those who have never lived out there. Sure, it's easy to quote ad nauseam and link to this and that but unless you've actually been there what gives you the right to judge? Opinions yes but that's not what I'm reading.
I think the title is a distasteful comparison to make of anyone - you really have no idea at all of the hurt that you can cause just in this alone regardless of the current situation.
I'm saddened by what is happening at the moment, I think it's tragic.
Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it's also weaving it's way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.
has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments
And I find your comments very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and wrong.
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Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it's also weaving it's way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.
You need a reality check fella.
There's no "hatred" weaving it's way through this thread. Although there's plenty of people who are appalled by the slaughter of Palestinians.
Shame on you for wanting to silence them by requesting that the thread be closed.
Joe,
it was just something that was in the local paper-silly editor!
Not that I need to defend myself to you, you if dont like what is being discussed/argued about look at the bike stuff!
"what tyre for the middle east" try that one!
Perhaps if both sides stopped indoctrinating their populations and more importantly their children with hate for each other then there may one day be a glimmer of hope, I can't see anyone coming out of this favorably.
Personally I think its a bit over the top leveling residential areas, schools etc just because something not that far removed from a glorified firework lands in your rose garden or onto of your SUV.
I can't help wishing the whole region would suffer a catastrophic earthquake followed by an enormous flood to level it all out and make them all start again!
personally I blame the Swiss! 😛
Mr Nutt go back to mtbrider mate 😆
oh, I should add that I was horrified to here that blond lass from the Israeli Army refer to their activities as part of an "ultimate solution" on the news yesterday/the day before, I genuinely could not believe my ears!
I'm the Daddy! 😮
tankslapper, only if you'll come with me 😉
O.K. Big Boy!
Clam down ... it's only a war.
There is war in Africa using child soldiers but do I hear any protest?
Darfur too is fighting but do you righteous ones give a toss? Ya, I know they ride camel and people live in mud hut but I bet you don't want to know because they have black skin is it not.
China & Burma too kill their own people but do you give a toss? Where is UN and where is the voice of EU? Is it because they have different religion not of god?
Russian invaded Georgia but do you give a toss? I dare UN & EU to intervene and to send troops over. But I guess not because you cannot bully them.
North Korean dear leader still suffer from bad hair cut but do you offer to give a solution? I mean do you?
Now Israelis are kicking Hamas backside and you go ape shite sitting on your high horse in the comfort of your TV lounge. Talking about humanitarian disaster big time. WTF!
What makes Palestinians lives more precious than the death in other nations currently in conflict?
Are you trying to discriminate death and to treat non-Palestinians death as less worthy?
Ts ts ts ...!
I remember once I asked my new Irish colleague what she thought of Oliver Cromwell and with her strong Irish accent she replied ... "Oliver Cromwell is a bastard!" LOL! Her strong Irish accent and her voice ... so cute. 😆 Turn me on a bit I must confess and I found that funny too.
[i]Now Israelis are kicking Hamas backside and you go ape shite sitting on your high horse in the comfort of your TV lounge. Talking about humanitarian disaster big time. WTF![/i]
The difference is that in a sense this is [b]our[/b] war, as we created the conditions for it in 1948 by giving the Jews something that was not ours to give, because it arose from [b]our[/b] WW2, from [b]our[/b] guilt at the fate of the Jews in Nazi hands, and because today the Israelis claim to be upholding [b]our[/b] values.
Palestinian lives are indeed not worth more or less than others, which is why hundreds of them are not needed to compensate for the killing of 3 or 4 Israelis who were unlucky enough to be underneath Hamas fireworks.
[url= http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/ ]Some background information[/url]. Note especially the use of human shields by the brave boys of the IDF.
chewkw, if you paid attention to what was happening in the world you might not talk so much drivel and perhaps not come across as a, quote : "fascist pillock" ....... although I wouldn't hold my breath.
And as I'm very slightly bored, let's pick away at some of the nonsense you've spouted.
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Darfur too is fighting .........
Yes indeed they are, and very tragic it is too. One of the difference of course, is that has been going on for over 5 years now, not two weeks. Another is that in Darfur the United States isn't supporting one side slaughtering the other. But since you appear to be interested in playing the "dead people numbers game" why do you choose Darfur, why not Iraq ? After all, since 2003 300,000 have died in Darfur compared with estimates of anything up to more an one million in Iraq (no one knows for sure as General Tommy Franks who led the invasion of Iraq said, "We don't do body counts")
Well actually I'll tell you why. A quick Google search of the Zionist press, shows that comparing the slaughter in Gaza with Darfur is the official Zionist propaganda line ie : "it's OK to slaughter Palestinians, because what happened Darfur was worst". (best not to mention Iraq in case it upsets the Americans)
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China & Burma too kill their own people
You're going to have to help me with that one. I wasn't aware that there were wars going on in China and Burma. Are they using F-16s against civilians ? Are tanks rolling into the towns and cities ? Are buildings being flattened by naval bombardments ?
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Russian invaded Georgia but do you give a toss?
You really need to pay more attention chewkw. There was a long and lively thread covering that conflicted on here. I believe it was agreed that the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was the cause of that particular conflict.
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But hey chewkw, well done for trying to defend the indefensible - it can't be easy.
Have you tried your hand at defending what the Apartheid State did in South Africa, or what the Nazi State did in Germany ? Or do you just specialise in defending the Zionist State ?
ernie_lynch, in all seriousness, I think you've got real issues that you need professional help with. Your attitude is full of bitterness. You remind me of someone who always has to have the last word!
[i]You remind me of someone who always has to have the last word[/i]
no. that would be me.
LOL!
Thank you for your concern for my well-being tyger**. But how about sticking to the subject of the thread - have you got something which you want to say, or have run out of comments ?
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** I feel hugely comfortable about my concern for the Palestinian people. The disgust which I feel about their slaughter - one third of the casualties are children, doesn't I believe, warrant 'professional help'.
innocents shouldn't get hurt, but if the palenstines stopped hurting the small number of israelies then there would have been no cause for them to invade. Either Hamas leadership have no concern for the plight of their people or being extremely stupid. Everyone knows you dont pick on the biggest kid in the playground, you end up getting hurt. Or maybe they're relying on the hand wringers to condemn Israel to oblivion.
ernie_lynch - I apologise. I'll refrain from commenting any more, No offence meant.
[i]if the palenstines stopped hurting the small number of israelies then there would have been no cause for them to invade[/i]
Someone else turning history on its head. Hamas didn't pick a fight, the Israelis did. Read some of the information provided in the links quoted above and form an opinion then.
No offence to residents of Isle of man, A quick solution relocate the Jews to a simlar sized area to where they are now or something like that yeah! .....problem solved ?????.... ...... I'd be interested to see if that would be the end to the problem... Hamas's flag has a swastika on it, Hezbollah's flag has a gun on it would they suddenly change their status as an organisation if Israel was renamed back as The Pallestine, or would they look some place else to fire rockets at. I'm not flicking through over 300 responses to this topic to find somebody has already mentioned this point.
present history not going back eons. Most countries and people in the world could have a grievance if you back far enough. It baffles me why everyone empathies with Palestine over any other difranchised people.
Absolutely no offence taken tyger. And comment as much as you like. But don't expect me to necessarily agree with you.
Agree to disagree then Ernie - thank you for you good grace.
One last comment from me then - where is Tony Blair in all this? Seems to be very conspicuous by his absense.
* absence
where is Tony Blair
From this thread 6 days ago :
#
ernie_lynch - Member
Coyote, it's not just his engagements which the world's highest paid public speaker has to consider, it's also the security implications.
As was reported in the Telegraph the other day, "he has not made a trip into Gaza and postponing a visit to see a new sewage treatment works in northern Gaza last July for security reasons"
Launching a war from thousands of miles away is one thing, but being stuck in the middle of one is something completely different.
Posted 6 days ago #
Still at it I see. When are you lot going to get to the conclusion that you are wasting your time arguing and go for a general consensus. If not then the bigest one of you can use force to shut the others up and write the winners history.
DrJ :
[b]"The difference is that in a sense this is our war, as we created the conditions for it in 1948 by giving the Jews something that was not ours to give, because it arose from our WW2, from our guilt at the fate of the Jews in Nazi hands, and because today the Israelis claim to be upholding our values."[/b]
Your war? 😆
So does that mean all the problems & conflicts that are presently surfacing in former British colonial states are your creation? That is half the world you know? 😆 So how do you intend to right the wrong of half the world you have created. Not you directly but the creation of your ancestors.
ernie_lynch :
[b]"But hey chewkw, well done for trying to defend the indefensible - it can't be easy.[/b]
I see you have done a great job trying very hard. 😆
[b]
Yes indeed they are, and very tragic it is too. One of the difference of course, is that has been going on for over 5 years now, not two weeks. Another is that in Darfur the United States isn't supporting one side slaughtering the other.[/b]
LOL! It is still on after 5 years? So you prioritise death? Well done. You definitely have a problem with people of darker skin. Are you saying so long as the people with darker skin kill each other that is alright? You do have a twisted mind of being highly discriminatory of those death in Darfur don't you.
[/b]"You're going to have to help me with that one. I wasn't aware that there were wars going on in China and Burma."[b]
Hey, have you forgotten your eagerness and the sense of justice to help those that are unfortunate? Or do you mean if they were kill "hands" and not technology like F-16 that is alright? Ts! Ts! Ts! Talking about double standard.
Number game? LOL! So you say the death of one person is alright?
[/b]"I believe it was agreed that the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was the cause of that particular conflict."[b]
What! What! What!
(the quick burst from Sheila Broflovski. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_and_Sheila_Broflovski)
You are trying to be complicated now aren't you. Are you confused? Or are you afraid the Russian will kick your backside?
You answer should be Russian should pull out once the situation is back to normal but who are going to make them? Perhaps EU or UN ... Wow! why I did not think of that? Or hang on a minute ... the gas! the gas! It's winter time in EU.
Now why justice should be different? Why do you feel that you should go ape shite on one but not the others? What is the cause of that? Did you experience unfair treatment by the Israel or USA in the past?
[/b]"Have you tried your hand at defending what the Apartheid State did in South Africa, or what the Nazi State did in Germany ? Or do you just specialise in defending the Zionist State ?"[b]
Eh? Isn't that history?
How about this question, where do Jewish people originated from?
😆
Jewish (Hebrew) people as far as i know originate from the area that was known as Judaia which is now The West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Israel as it is today. What seems like a simple solution to relocate the Israeli people as i mentioned earlier is out of the question, they're not gonna shift by any means and why should they, but its an option for a means to an end.
This vid link might shed light on how Hamas values its own people...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5c5_1231615971
Today during the protests in "support" of the corruption that is HAMAS a british policeman was beaten unconscious by "people" against the Israelis defending themselves.
My thoughts are that if the people are found who commited this crime they should be sent to Israel with people knowing what they have done. Lets see how they enjoy their human rights then - they are lower than scum.
While i dont support Israel and what they are doing anything that wipes out terrorists and their supporters cant be bad.
For far to long Britain has allowed people who hate the democratic society they live in to thrive, its time we dealt with them the way they want to deal with us.
chewkw instead of constantly changing the subject, why don't you stick to what this thread is about - ie the alleged crimes committed by Israel.
So far you've tried to change the topic by talking about Darfur, China, Burma, Russia, and Georgia !!!
The possible crimes committed by other countries is all very interesting, but absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening in Gaza today.
You would make a rubbish defence lawyer - I repeat, it's not alleged crimes committed in Darfur, China, Burma, Russia, and Georgia which is on trial here, but the alleged crimes being committed in Gaza.
Stick to defending your Client !
[i]While i dont support Israel and what they are doing anything that wipes out terrorists and their supporters cant be bad.[/i]
Well there's your problem right there. Do you imagine that the kids that grow up in a shit-hole, with their parents killed or maimed by the Israelis, and no prospect of a normal life, will be more, or less likely to support Hamas? For every fighter that the Israelis manage to kill, 100 more will be motivated to take their place.
chewkw and ernie_lynch are like IDF and Hamas of this forum, do you think you two could get together face to face and discuss the issue. Or would the entrenched views of both sides prevent a positive out come, if you guys can't do peace how will it ever happen in Isreal/Palestine.
[i]chewkw and ernie_lynch are like IDF and Hamas of this forum, do you think you two could get together face to face and discuss the issue. Or would the entrenched views of both sides prevent a positive out come, if you guys can't do peace how will it ever happen in Isreal/Palestine.[/i]
That analogy is more apt than you realise - you assume that in a situation you know nothing about, that the two combatants must be half-right and half-wrong, so that Israel and Hamas just need to sit down and have a nice cup of tea and split the difference. However, in reality - which is seen easily in this thread - one side is absolutely wrong. Of course it is not a big deal that chewkw spouts bollocks from morning til night, but in the real world people are dying because of Israel.
Hello DrJ. I must make this clear I only want there to be peace in this situation (and others obviously). I do realise the analogy was apt, that is why I posted it. However please do not assume that I do not know about the situation. I choose not to comment about it because talking peace and tolerance is the only way forward, if some one could start that debate on here and over there. I fear however that hate has taken over the hearts of many. Again peace.
[i]I choose not to comment about it because talking peace and tolerance is the only way forward, if some one could start that debate on here and over there.[/i]
Well, you seem to be a bit confused. This is an internet forum. Whatever we agree or decide here will have less than zero impact on the children being starved and bombed in Gaza.
As for extending your philosophy to Gaza, of course that would be nice, but it seems a bit far-fetched that as long as one side is refusing to talk to the other, and all the while trying to kill them, and destroy the lives of the unlucky survivors that it is going to happen, and your implication that there is an equal blame for that situation is a little naive.
DrJ I apologise for seeming confused, if a sincere hope for peace is confused. As soon as possible I hope the two sides can come together and talk their way out of war. How they do that I have now idea but I suspect it will be tough for both sides to make the move towards an alternative to war. My philosophy (did not know I had one but you could be right) is to hope, pray and support anyone who makes the moves towards the end of the death and distruction whoever commits it. Peace is a naive concept in this day and age I agree but it's the only thing that we have. It works very well with love of ones fellow human beings. I can see that I'm going to be drawn into a long discussion here but all I have to offer is they should get talking so I'll duck out here. Peace again to you and thanks for your comments
Holy shit - pardon the pun - but wasn't Jesus the founding member of the PLO?
Look, I have NO LOVE for either side - only the love of what is right and what is wrong. It's the only thing we have in this sad ****ed up world. In that sense the Israelis are therefore wrong. It's O.K. to be God's chosen people but a hell of a thing to live up to that.
Gazza 1 Israel Not Left The Changing Room!
[b][/b][/b] Who forgot their end bold tag? Or is it just getting heated.
You 5th?
An elderly lady at the protest march today in London mentioned that if only Hamas had not started firing missles then none of this would have happened. The banners read "Peace in Israel and Gaza" laying the blame at Hamas. Made sense to me.
[b]klegg: "Jewish (Hebrew) people as far as i know originate from the area that was known as Judaia which is now The West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Israel as it is today."[/b]
Ta da! That "might" be the answer why Israelis want to stay there forever and fight for their territory or enemies. It is their home!
I remember once I asked my Jewish friend why their race has been prosecuted & hated all this time. He had no answer but thought that perhaps it was due to the crucification of Jesus the Jew.
Did anyone of you watch Jesus the Jew programme this evening? Interesting arguments. Judging from the case/argument presented it seems like Jewish people have been prosecuted for centuries due to Paul's new testament? (apparently it was Paul or St Paul that caused it according to the programme)
Apparently Jesus was not baptised so he was born a Jew and died a Jew. Jesus was merely trying to be a very good Jew or trying to promote a new form of Judaism (implied by the programme not me)? So he was preaching Judaism as there was no such thing as Christianity then.
On another note. Taking the logic of that argument of God the creator ... that means Judaism comes first followed by Christianity then Islam? All in the same branch and all from middle east, so they are in fact one big family beating the hell out of each other because some of them wanted to re-write the doctrine.
Matter becomes more complicated because latter on as their ego grew greater it gets to their head and overshadows what it means to do the right thing. All they care is my God is the real God argument and beat the hell out of each other until today, when they cannot even live side by side. Well done whoever started it and preached the gospel of hate ... I bet since then s/he might have be locked up in the Brazen Bull and for eternity.
So perhaps they should ask God why his children behave so badly and why the hell are they so egotistic?
Therefore, until such time as all of them accept they are the "creation" of the same God. They will kill each other until the world ends.
So what you say? Especially ernie_lynch & DrJ.
How are you going to tell them to stop fighting because they are all one big family? Solve that and there will be peace on earth for a while ... until the God's armies find another target perhaps. i.e. the non-believers.
In the meantime, ernie_lynch & DrJ are still going ape shite with steam (not fire as they are not dragons but just ape shite) coming out from their nostrils.
😆
Made sense to me
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So Israel not breaking the ceasefire and entering Gaza to kill six Hamas fighters didn't make sense to you ?
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians ]"A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured"[/url]
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And Israel sticking to the terms of the ceasefire and lifting their illegal blockade didn't make sense to you either ?
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Keep repeating Israeli propaganda tyger, and I'll keep challenging it.
ernie_lynch,
What's with your short term solution of stopping this and that? Blaming this and that?
You are a propaganda machine and a very evil one.
😆
