[Closed] Apple? where and why did it all go wrong??

Any high end PC user (graphic design, 3D modelling etc..) will tell you, the first thing you do with a new PC is turn all the advanced graphical features off to free up memory for the important tasks.

Errr no they wouldn't. At least I wouldn't (and I'm a high end PC user, who also happens to use macs). But i'm willing to be proven wrong, got any benchmark results? Or even just tell me the test I can do to convince myself...

A modern phone should easily run a watered down Windows XP type OS, and an XP level OS could easily do what we need phones to do...

Well, apart from designed in security, power management features etc etc... I could go on...

And what is "XP level" anyway? Windows NT4? Linux Kernel 2.4 - I guess you're part right there, Android runs a descendant of that kernel...

And iOS runs a variant Mach kernel, that dates from around 1990...over a decade old by the time of XP...

Why would you want to do that?

To score points in internet arguments?

For anyone who likes to fiddle with computers, Iphones and Itunes are way too restrictive.

The trope that Apple is for simpletons and technophobes gets repeated a lot.

I'm a senior software engineer specialised in embedded systems. I like Apple and I see plenty of Apple devices around the office in the hands of other engineers that, like me, have been "fiddling with computers" for several decades.

A modern phone should easily run a watered down Windows XP type OS, and an XP level OS could easily do what we need phones to do...

That would be Windows XP Embedded. No longer supported by Microsoft I believe (and having written code for it I'm glad of that!)

But feel free to get a Windows phone which does have a mini-Windows-OS on it.

+1 on GrahamS too BTW.

And I say that as someone who's had Maemo and Meego phones...proper hardcore I tell thee, can't even get a proper X-term on Android! How restrictive is that!... 😉

(oh and I know i'm feeding the trolls here, most people won't have their opinions changed on this almost religious topic. Feel free to change mine though, with facts.. 😉 )

For anyone who likes to fiddle with computers…

Go get to work! Might get one for Xmas.

As for OSX… I'm still on 10.6.8, and, having also used all the more recent updates, have seen nothing of real value added to the OS since then.

And the phones? Yes, you do have to keep updating the OS, even when you don't want to, if you want to install new apps… all part of the bizarre idea that only handheld computers less than 3 years old matter. The same is true for all platforms, and yes, annoying. And wasteful.

and then they updated the IOS and made the folders fade in and out…

Turn all that rubbish off! Day one! And yes, Apple have hidden away the option to do that, and yes, that's very poor.

[i]DezB - you do know that the iPod players, even the old ones, do actually have an operating system, right?[/i]

You know what I mean, Ms Pedantic!

[s]Dez[/s] [s]Rachel[/s] [s]Jamie[/s] Dez

Ditched my MacBook back in the summer for a Surface Pro 3. Like a breath of fresh air.

Interested - how so?

Rachel we all love the hungry caterpillar !

For anyone who likes to fiddle with computers, Iphones and Itunes are way too restrictive.

The trope that Apple is for simpletons and technophobes gets repeated a lot.

I've been writing software commercially on and off since 1985 and the last thing I want to do when I get home is hack my phone / tablet / PC.

Apple have never been 'cutting edge' - they take other peoples ideas and make them work.

step forward Google and the Chromebook. The best innovation we've had for many years.

Their desktops and laptops are still by a big margin the best computers out there, and their longevity is outstanding I've 3 MacBook Pros the oldest one being 9 years old (1st gen Intel) and still it works pretty well.

Phone and tablet wise they certainly aren't the best out there, they look beautiful but for the price there is a lot better stuff out there, I lost my iPhone 5S in the summer and it wasn't insured so didn't want to shell out £600 for a new one so bought a OnePlus One -probably the best phone I've owned and it was £270. Sure it doesn't look as pretty and it's not made of such nice materials but it does just show Apple are a luxury brand - they are the Paul Smith suit to my OnePlus One Burton suit.

That is laughable.

Not entirely. They've ripped off their fair share of stuff over the years.

Indeed, but Apple gave us the GUI that everybody now uses.

i'm a big apple fan and always been quite evangelical about them, however, I have a 3 month old iMac and recently upgraded to the free Yosemite 10.0 (updated yesterday to 10.1) and it's a total shower.

I've got 32gb of RAM and it wants to use 30Gb of it just doing nothing. Been back to Apple twice who clear down a million caches and blame parallels (which I need to run a windows specific software. Removed parallels and it's still shite.

They are now advising me to do a clean install and blaming time machine for dragging something across from my old 6 year old 13" macbook which was faultless, and still brought £420 on eBay when I sold it!

I'm at the end of my tether with it, the only way I get it working smoothly is by actually running paralles and using MS stuff, which I could've done for less than £1400.

Do love my iPhone 6 though, that does work well.

I'm a very recent convert to the world of i.. MrsBouy has been i 'd for about 13 years or so but me, nah I came from a land of PC's mainly because all my employers used them..
Now I've converted fully and everything I have is synchronised, 5s,iPad,MBA and MrsBouys MacPro.

I'm not going backwards, I'll stay in the world of i 😀

Indeed, but Apple gave us the GUI that everybody now uses.

Hmm.. they made the first commercial one but they didn't invent it.

Indeed, but [s]Apple[/s] Xerox gave us the GUI that everybody now uses.

ftfy

I've got 32gb of RAM and it wants to use 30Gb of it just doing nothing.

Not [i]necessarily[/i] a bad thing.

Is it actually holding onto that memory and making other tasks run slowly (bad!), or is it cleverly pre-caching stuff in the available memory but happily freeing it up if needed? (good)

Indeed, but Apple gave us the GUI that everybody now uses.

Their desktops and laptops are still by a big margin the best computers out there, and their longevity is outstanding

My kids were interwebbing on one of these until recently, and it still worked fine

[img] [/img]

The hard drive is now sat on a shelf as its still a lovely looking thing, and I can't bring myself to get rid of it

I do think the old ipod classics are the best mp3 players about but not impressed with any of their other stuff at all. All our editing pcs at work are windows 7 running avid and after effects projects all day and they hardly ever fall over.

I'm surprised that we've managed to get this far without whispering - 'Ubuntu'... (ubuntu.com - it's linux, and is not just for nerds anymore, in my nerdy opinion)

The modern releases are surprisingly good. Very easy to install, compared to Yosemite even. Easy to use. Most software you need is free. Even the word processor (LibreOffice) is very good and is good enough to ditch MS Office. Edits word files perfectly, so far.

I run a Mac and Ubuntu side-by-side at work and it's getting to the point that I sometimes sigh with relief when I move back to my Ubuntu desktop. It used to be the other way around. Seriously thinking about putting Ubuntu on my mac laptop. At least a dual boot system.

And as for a smartphone, FirefoxOS is actually usable already. Not perfect, but it does the things I need.

I'm surprised that we've managed to get this far without whispering - 'Ubuntu'... (ubuntu.com - it's linux, and is not just for nerds anymore, in my nerdy opinion)

Given the struggle I've had to make Ubuntu do even basic things that I wanted, I would not recommend it to anyone. I'm using it daily on my work laptop.

For example, having it dim the screen when I unplug the power - I had to write my own script. And don't get me started on hybrid graphics adapters.

So yes maybe, if you are lucky. But as a general recommendation definitely definitely not.

Multiple iPhones, iPad and MB Air. Couple of the phones and the MB Air have had to be replaced or repaired under warranty. The MB Air has just broken again.

I think it is quite telling that the MB Air is not returned with Mavericks or Yosemite on it from Apple service. I hope they learn from these major releases.

So I think while the Apple stuff works it is nice to use. But the hardware quality is poor. I would not expect this to change as margin on hardware is what Apple is all about.

So yes maybe, if you are lucky. But as a general recommendation definitely definitely not.

Well, okay, but if you are even sightly nerdy - at least install it on your desktop.

For example, having it dim the screen when I unplug the power - I had to write my own script.

You sound like you consider this to be a bad thing. It could be easily fixed with a script you wrote yourself! It may be the rigid singlespeed of the OS world, but some (odd) people actually prefer singlespeeds 🙂

Fangin - what is it that you can do with Ubuntu that you can't on your Mac? The Mac, after all, is a full Unix OS.

Seems to cope well as a development environment, especially in open source, judging by the number of glowing Apple logos facing me whenever I'm speaking at a conference...

Rachel

The modern releases are surprisingly good. Very easy to install, compared to Yosemite even. Easy to use. Most software you need is free. Even the word processor (LibreOffice) is very good and is good enough to ditch MS Office. Edits word files perfectly, so far.

Libreoffice really isn't good enough to edit Word and Powerpoint if you have anything remotely complicated happening, i.e. other than basic text! I say that typing on a Ubuntu machine with an RDP session open to a windows box for this reason....

It does dim the screen on battery fine mind 😉

So does my mac, but I could write a script on that to do so if I wanted to...

Find it a strange phenomenon - Folk buying consumer electronics and then acting like they've got shares in that company - why the loyalty? You think they've got you back or something?

why the loyalty?

Justifying £100s/£1000s of expenditure?

You sound like you consider this to be a bad thing. It could be easily fixed with a script you wrote yourself!

Of course. I'm still using Ubuntu, by choice, and it has some huge benefits. But for a non techie it's still nowhere near.

It wasn't only that - I had to install and configure packages to get it to manage power effectively; I spent weeks getting the hybrid graphics adapter working properly with multiple montiors; you need to google for a series of commands to get persistent bluetooth mouse connections; I still haven't got a system image backup tool because you can't do system image backups when the system is running - at all. You have to boot from USB to do it.

It did WORK out of the box, but I only got half the battery life I got under Windows until I did all this crap.

why the loyalty?

People want to believe they've made the right choice, as the alternative is unpalatable.

Find it a strange phenomenon - Folk buying consumer electronics and then acting like they've got shares in that company - why the loyalty? You think they've got you back or something?

If someone calls you an idiot, simpleton or sheep for buying a particular bike/car/house/phone/whatever isn't it fairly natural to defend your decision and, by proxy, the creator of that product?

Especially if you feel their criticism is unfounded.

£97 billion of cash reserves
Remind me where apple went wrong and feel free to offer any advice you IT nerds think apple should listen to.

The trope that Apple is for simpletons and technophobes gets repeated a lot.

I'm a senior software engineer specialised in embedded systems. I like Apple and I see plenty of Apple devices around the office in the hands of other engineers that, like me, have been "fiddling with computers" for several decades.

Yup. Last thing I want to do is have to fiddle with my home pc or phone or TV streamer. My nexus 5 was a buggy crashing PoS and I'm happy to see the back of it - after initially being overwhelmed by the 'powa'. Now, 99% of that was the software (Divide I'm looking at you) installed on it, but I've not had the same experience on iOS or OS X (which I went to instead of Linux to try 10 odd years back, and stayed with it for my home kit).

Last thing I want to do is have to fiddle with my home pc or phone or TV streamer.

It seems to be a common theme.

My theory is that as Joe Public gets more tech-savvy some of them are experiencing the joy and freedom of tinkering and "hacking" devices for the first time.

Whereas many of us that tinker like that for our living already had that first epiphany a long time ago, been there and done it, and now have the perspective to appreciate the joy and freedom of devices that just work.

Interested - how so?

@molgrips

High resolution screen (I went from the first unibody MacBook Pro), touchscreen, pen, detachable keyboard, an OS that's touchscreen friendly, Photoshop with a pen instead of a tablet, stand thingamajig, lightweight.

I use it for Visual Studio (the MacBook wouldn't run it due to crap virtualisation implementation) and with the keyboard it works absolutely fine. Anyone who says it's not a proper keyboard hasn't used one.

Cons? The WiFi driver is STILL buggy; Windows seems to have a never-ending stream of updates; and if you enable Hyper-V you lose stuff like Connected Standby and Instant On. It's not as pick-up-and-go as my iPad, which I've had to keep for work.

Whereas many of us that tinker like that for our living already had that first epiphany a long time ago, been there and done it, and now have the perspective to appreciate the joy and freedom of devices that just work.

Which is why a lot of people stick to Windows - it just works. And anything you buy is guaranteed to be Windows compatible, Mac probably, and Ubuntu/Linux almost never.

GrahamS - Member

....and now have the perspective to appreciate the joy and freedom of devices that just work.

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

I'm only on my second Android phone, as is my wife - but all four of those have 'just worked' - 1 HTC, 1 Sony & 2 Samsungs). my first Android phone I kept for 3 and a half years, my current one is 18 months old.

Both of our LG Android tablets 'just work'.

My current Acer laptop with Win7 'just works' and has done for almost the last 4 years.
My Wife's Dell laptop is now with my parents and 'just works' and it must be at least 8 years old now.
My old desktop was [s]about 6 years old[/s] EDIT - getting on for 9 years old when I sold it on eBay. It still 'just worked' but we didn't need it anymore and sold it to a bloke who wanted it for his photography business.

I am not particularly computer savvy - I know my way around the basics and can Goggle a problem, if it crops up. But I just want to use stuff, not tinker with it. I haven't had to with any of this stuff.

Do we have a winner yet?

[img] [/img]

Do we have a winner yet?

Apple shareholders seem to be holding an edge on the Microsoft lot, although BillG is still in the ring and smiling.

I have always had ipods but at the same time had reservations on a lot of the apple stuff as I thought the hardware was overpriced for the spec offered. I always built my own PC's so thought the componentry used (although v nicely packaged) was way below spec considering the asking price.

Saying that I am largely consigned to use a Windows PC anyway as I need one for software development. I have as yet never had an iPhone but this may change as am being given one for work. I think this may be a shock to the system as I have had Android phones since they first released the operating system.

I agree with the comment that Windows has upped it's game with regards to it's PC Operating systems and that might have tightened the gap rather than Apple losing it's way.

For anyone who likes to fiddle with computers
Why would you want to do that?

Is there any valid reason for not have sd card slots on apple mobile devices or is it purely to make you buy a more expensive model?

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

Apple's vision is/was (supposedly) to make complicated/clever devices into "white goods" simple enough to be accessible to non-geeks. Historically speaking they have done pretty well at that and that's where the "Just Works" thing comes from (as well as the "walled garden" approach).

I completely agree with you that Android/Google are making excellent headway into "Just Works" too. You can see this with the growth in Android and the popularity of simplified "Just Works" devices/systems like Chromecast.

Not too many years ago Android discussion threads were dominated by people discussing custom rom images, task managers, multi-threading etc. You don't see that nearly as much now, except in geeky forums, and that's probably a good thing.

But as for Windows: it has got better but did your Windows boxes [i]really[/i] "Just Work"?
Or are you ignoring stuff like installing anti-virus/malware software, weekly Windows updates, constantly needing to manually update your other software, and assorted fiddling with things to get them right?

But as for Windows: it has got better but did your Windows boxes really "Just Work"?

Yep. Windows updates aren't something you have to do to maintain - they happen automatically too.

As for manually updating other software - a) that doesn't happen to me and b) how's that MS's fault?

No fiddling required for W7 and W8 afaik.

I don't understand this 'just works' phrase when comparing Apple stuff to other stuff, in a manner that implies if it's not Apple it doesn't 'just work'.

Never underestimate what Apple achieved.

Graphic Designers have always been able to use Apples, without difficulty. And this has then revolutionised the industry

Previously, anything more complicated than felt tips completely baffled us. If someone had approached the design profession and started talking about operating systems, never mind some of the frankly baffling twoddle that is the common parlance of IT spods, we'd have just done this....

then gone to the pub

Is there any valid reason for not have sd card slots on apple mobile devices or is it purely to make you buy a more expensive model?

I'm sure that making you buy a more expensive model is a big part of it. The pricing tiers of different capacity Apples products are many magnitudes greater than the actual cost of that capacity.

But... it is also about keeping it simple.

If you have removable storage then you have to present that to the user somehow. They need to think about where they are storing files and apps. And as an OS vendor (or app writer) you need to cope with things like someone trying to access an image/document/app that is stored on a different SD card or even the user pulling out an SD card while you are busy accessing it.

Little complications that add up to a more complicated user experience.

It's perhaps telling that a lot of Android models no longer have removable storage on them either.

The pricing tiers of different capacity Apples products are many magnitudes greater than the actual cost of that capacity.

And as an OS vendor (or app writer) you need to cope with things like someone trying to access an image/document/app that is stored on a different SD card or even the user pulling out an SD card while you are busy accessing it.