[Closed] Apple Mac itch.........sorry!

I’ve been a Mac user for 30 years. I periodically have to use Windows kit for some work contracts, but when I have the choice, the choice is Mac. It doesn’t always just work, but IME it just works more often than windows does. The hardware is better quality than similarly priced Microsoft, Lenovo or Dell kit, again IMHO.

As above, they’ve ALWAYS been better value than the competition. You’d have to use one to appreciate it, I can understand why people look at them and short-sightedly think they’re not. Stuck with Windows for 20 years though 🤣 you have my sympathy. Made the switch 15 years ago and never looked back.

Agree the new M1 stuff looks absolutely cracking though. Going to wait for the proper Pro machines personally but might pick up a Mini for server duties.

Early days but not heard anything bad yet? Even the performance of non-native apps that you might assume it’d struggle with (esp. the limited RAM) e.g. CAD is blowing people away for what is really a pretty cheap laptop.

Mac user for nearly 20 years and have never regretted it. Keep looking at the new Macbook pro myself but my old 2014 Air is still going strong since I replaced the battery in summer and can't really justify changing it at the moment.

they’ve ALWAYS been better value than the competition

They've never been better value than the competition, even in capitals. They have many redeeming features but "value" is not one of them, they're a premium product commanding a premium price.

If you spent Apple money on an equivalent PC laptop you'd get a lot more for your money. But people don't, they compare a £2k Mac to a £300 PC and go "well, the Mac is so much better!" Of course it is, they'd have gone out of business by now otherwise.

If you regret not buying a Mac then "buy a Mac" is sensible advice, that's clearly what you want. But your usage case could be met with an entry-level laptop, RAM and perhaps SSD upgrades and a big monitor. With the money you've saved you could buy a power kite.

They’ve never been better value than the competition, even in capitals. They have many redeeming features but “value” is not one of them, they’re a premium product commanding a premium price.

Your opinion, others are available. As are interpretations of what value means, even in inverted commas.

Nah, you’re confusing up-front cost with total cost of ownership. You’ll be able to keep a Mac way longer before replacing it plus spend a lot less valuable time sorting out issues over the years. Time and lack of stress are extremely valuable commodities to me and moving to Mac has paid me back both in spades. I’m sure a £300 machine at the time is fine but who is genuinely using that every day 15 years later? And guarantee a lot more time will have been spent swearing at the cheap POS 🤣

If you regret not buying a Mac then “buy a Mac” is sensible advice, that’s clearly what you want.

It's not really though, that's the problem. 🙂
I don't like the soldered in batteries, SSD's and non upgradable RAM. Those weren't an issue 20 years ago when I chose the Toshiba over the Mac, Macs were still upgradable then.

I get on really well with Windows 10, and I'd like to buy a pleasant to use, powerful machine that will last a good few years.

The Dell XPS looks like the nearest W10 equivalent to the M1 MBP and seems a great option.

I don't aspire to own a Mac, but for the first time in ages they look like an excellent option in terms of value and performance, hence the question.

Cougar were you bullied by Steve Jobs as a child? It’s like a Mac thread cannot exist without your Apple tax rant.

The M1 architecture is an absolute game changer and invalidates all your comparisons. Maybe check out Tom’s Guide view of latest Air vs XPS and then change the record a bit.

Opened thread, wondered how far down I’d get before a “cougar” post, leave thread..........

I never 'loved' my computer until I got a Mac. I'll never go back to a PC.

Macs just strip away all the crap you never knew you didn't need.

Macs are a bit pricy, but they are great. I’ve just got one of the newest laptops and the new M1 chip seems amazing though there’s still some software that doesn’t yet work on it which is a nuisance.

I used to be a fan of Apple until their Big Sur OS bricked my mid-2014 MacBook Pro. Apparently, Apple want £500 to change the i/o board.

What happened to the benefits of integrated product/software. I am not yet aware of any Windows update leading to hardware failure.

Just get the new M1, it will be the only computer you will be able to sell and get some money for at the end of three years, also a delight to use.

change the record a bit.

Yet there's still people posting about using 15 year old Macs problem-free. We have two unibody Macs from 2008 in the house and they'd be paperweights if I hadn't put a lightweight Linux OS on them. Meanwhile I run a business on a Compaq from the same year and it just works, albeit with an SSD.

Hmmm I’ve recently gone the other way, macs hardware is very nice and my wife is still using my 2012 Mac mini daily (regret selling my core 2 duo MBP) but office 365 is so far ahead it’s not even a competition on that front. If you need help with software Microsoft Community has some truly helpful considerate monitors. Where as apple forums are condescending places where you are always wrong.

Having said that, if you just want photos and music an iPad Pro will fulfil your needs in fact with a pencil it’ll do more than that. Not used it for music but there are some great apps. My last iPad lasted ages in fact the only reasons it’s been replaced is due to no more app updates.

Lenovo make some nice laptops and I think huawei make mac imitations I think.

If you spent Apple money on an equivalent PC laptop you’d get a lot more for your money. But people don’t, they compare a £2k Mac to a £300 PC and go “well, the Mac is so much better!”

Imagine doing something like that

I’m sure a £300 machine at the time is fine but who is genuinely using that every day 15 years later? And will have enjoyed using it for virtually every minute of that time

Oh.

Mrs Bails has got an iMac, either a 2004 or 2006 model. It's been in its cardboard box for the last 4 years. It was out on a desk but unused for years before that because it was glacially slow. She used my 2008 ~£700 Windows laptop (which I sold/gave away to someone on here actually, I wonder if it's still going?), and now my 2017 ~£550 Windows laptop.

Apple don't have magic powers, they make expensive, high spec stuff that works well. Your can buy expensive, high spec stuff made by other companies.

Back to the OP, if you want a Mac then buy a Mac, from the sounds of it you'll regret it if you don't.

Edit for clarity: please don't mistake any of the above for "Apple is rubbish", because it isn't. It's expensive, and probably good, and other expensive stuff can be good too.

Upgraded to Big Sur on my 2014 Air and have no issues. I'd have thought the Pro would have handled it better?

When I swapped my battery I kept seeing things about soldered/glued in batteries, but literally, it was a 10-minute job with no glue, no solder to be seen anywhere.

I'm considering scratching the Mac itch again. I had an original Mac mini when they were first released, still got it but it doesn't with with hardly anything anymore. Turned to a pc, Aldi medion when they seemed good for the money, next went to a scan build core i5 version 4, still using it with ram and ssd upgrades. Works well but doesn't do 4k video very well.
Anyway the new M1 Mac's have attracted my interest. A mini would be good under the TV but I think I'd go for the air as the portability might come in useful at some point. Do I really need a Mac? Probably not. Would I like one? Yes. Maybe my interest will subside if I do watching the review videos?

Yet there’s still people posting about using 15 year old Macs problem-free

And mine was obsoleted and no longer OS uprgradable and not supported 4 years after brand new purchase. Reason? it was the black case, not bling alu case afaict, and no longer fitted their image and what they deemed acceptable. Surely they could have shipped a non multitouch touchpad driver? Oh yeah and that 4 year obsolescence date coincided with the 3rd battery carking it. Bought a Linux based laptop for the price of a 4th battery.

The M1 mac certainly does seem to be pretty performant though, going on 1 review I've seen (from a self-confessed Mac user youtuber). Certainly more than I was expecting from the first models. I'd never buy the first of anything though until established and the software properly ported etc.

The only Apple I will buy is the stock on the stock exchange. I'd never buy MS.

@andytherocketeer, look on Macrumors. Lol!

Bought a 2012 MBP i7 for son1 to work on for his unix based research last year. It’s ok and well made. Last of the hewn from solid aluminium cases ones with a DVD drive. Non retina screen. But with my eyesight it’s not an issue.

I don’t really warm to it, but then it’s an appliance like my work laptop. Windows 10 is fine, but so is Mac/OS. Have they fixed the keyboards yet? Permanently?

A surface Go2 is my most likely next purchase. Mac dropped the ball in the tablet-cum-laptop space. And I have an iPad and iPhone.

they’ve ALWAYS been better value than the competition. You’d have to use one to appreciate it,

I have two Macs from work, I still prefer Windows and when I look at the prices of Macs I agree with Cougar, they aren't particularly good value.

Reliability has gone down significantly in the last few years. My 2015 MBP black-screens regularly. None of my Windows computers do this and most of them are older and they are all vastly cheaper.

To the OP - the M1s look fast, but do you need to spend over a grand on a machine with 8Gb RAM to get a performance boost when you just want to do 'basic stuff' ? The disadvantages of 8Gb are likely to be far greater than the extra clock cycles of the M1 that you won't even notice. Your CPU is never the bottleneck unless you are doing certain specific things like video editing or rendering.

The problem with Windows is that there are good and bad Windows laptops. There are no bad Macs*, although Apple are doing their very best to change this. There are also cheap Windows computers, there are no cheap Macs.

My Mac is currently nagging me to upgrade to Big Sur (even though I tried to cancel it) and work have told us not to because of the risk of ****ing things up.

Yet there’s still people posting about using 15 year old Macs problem-free

I have a 13 year old Windows laptop that works fine, beautiful screen still, but the case is a bit battered as it was cheap. Also converted a 9 year old work laptop to Zwift duties, with a £20 SSD in it it's really pretty fast. The case is broken on that too, as I dropped it and I had to glue it back up.

I don't think modern versions of MacOS are supported on 15 year old Macs are they?

* Except that cylindrical thing that kept toasting itself. Talk about style over function 🙄

I never ‘loved’ my computer until I got a Mac. I’ll never go back to a PC.

Macs just strip away all the crap you never knew you didn’t need.

This Mac has Garage Band on it (wtf? It's for work!) and some home-made office type software that no-one needs, Apple TV, and I keep accidentally brushing the Siri button. **** off Siri. So yeah there is plenty of crap.

A big mark against the Windows model is that PC vendors put all their own crap on there which is often dire and sometimes a real problem. I wish they wouldn't do this, and I have no idea why MS let them because it really damages the image of Windows and no-one likes it.

Mrs Bails has got an iMac, either a 2004 or 2006 model. It’s been in its cardboard box for the last 4 years. It was out on a desk but unused for years before that because it was glacially slow.

I've got one of those too... someone gave it to me a while back, it's not in daily use as I haven't got a use for it yet, but I've just got it out the cupboard and am typing on it right now 🙂 Performance is ok, bit snappier probably than the Pi 400 I got recently, not the fastest but perfectly useable... quite impressive considering it's only got 1.25Gb RAM! No, Macs are not magic, they (like all computers and precision tools) need looking after properly... you've probably ballsed yours up somewhow! Not what you want to hear I'm sure, but it's probably fixable and usable if you only need a minimal spec machine. Think it's maxed out with Snow Leopard, I'll probably Hackintosh it at some point so I can use iCloud, and whack an SSD in it.

The disadvantages of 8Gb are likely to be far greater than the extra clock cycles of the M1 that you won’t even notice.

do you say that with any actual knowledge or are you just looking at it like you would traditional PC i.e. Intel etc architecture? As has been said, M1 is a total game-changer and works very differently to what most people are used to. I've not heard anyone yet say the new Air is particuarly hamstrung with only 8Gb. There is much, much more to M1 than just "clock cycles".

I have two Macs from work, I still prefer Windows and when I look at the prices of Macs I agree with Cougar, they aren’t particularly good value.

Reliability has gone down significantly in the last few years. My 2015 MBP black-screens regularly. None of my Windows computers do this and most of them are older and they are all vastly cheaper.

I've got 12 Macs that I "look after" split between work, home and family members. I can tell you the reliability is the same as ever - great. They all still work fine except for one MBP which died, known issue & Apple replaced it with a newer model even though it was a few years old. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe you've been unlucky. Maybe you've never learned to use one properly because you hate them for some reason and want them to break? Who knows.

Nah, you’re confusing up-front cost with total cost of ownership. You’ll be able to keep a Mac way longer before replacing it

No I'm not and that's entirely my point. My daily driver laptop turned 12 last month, and it cost half of an equivalent Mac. If you're arguing TCO then I'd need a Macbook to last 25 years.

And guarantee a lot more time will have been spent swearing at the cheap POS

Again, that's exactly my point. Don't buy a cheap POS, whatever badge it happens to have.

Cougar were you bullied by Steve Jobs as a child? It’s like a Mac thread cannot exist without your Apple tax rant

I'm not ranting and I've nothing against Apple or their products. They're not for me personally but rather I'm a firm believer that the right tool for the job should trump fanboyism, I'd cheerfully suggest buying a Mac (and indeed, just did) if I thought it was the right solution to a problem.

(You do know that Steve Jobs died like ten years ago, yes?)

Nah, you’re confusing up-front cost with total cost of ownership. You’ll be able to keep a Mac way longer before replacing it plus spend a lot less valuable time sorting out issues over the years.

This is not my experience at all. If you spend the same on a professional quality Windows laptop as you'd spend on a MacBook, you'll get a solid machine. Windows has much better backwards compatibility than Mac OS, especially with old printers, scanners, etc. I have a 2012 Macbook Pro (which I use to run Win10 in Bootcamp). The latest versions of Mac OS will not install, whereas the Dell XPS laptop I bought at the same time can run the latest versions of Win10.

However, the big question is really what software you want to run. If you're into artistic stuff, probably the professional grade software is developed for Mac OS (but you need to check, obviously). In my line of work, we use specialized software that is only available for Windows, so Mac OS is a non-starter. If your work is mostly using MS Office, a Mac is going to cost you more and have no benefits over a decent Windows machine.

I had a Sony laptop that was giving me gyp. Not least the on button being exactly where I wanted to pick it up and switch it off when moving about...

Anyways, I had considered a MacBook Pro at the time of purchase but it was 250£ more than the Sony so I decided against it.

A couple years later, when the Sony ‘issues’ were annoying me I succumbed to one of the last MBP with integral dvd drive 2013/14?

I never warmed to it. I’ve used ms-dos and windows machine since the early 90’s and as a consequence use keyboard shortcuts. I just was never able to do on the MacBook what I could do on a windows machine... like, ever.

Ironically all I really used it for was watching and the mb dvd drive went south 6 months ago so I using the, yup, that’s right, the older Sony... must be 8 going on 9 years old and still W7 so effectively otherwise retired. Oh the MBP regularly went slow and spun the Catherine wheel of dread for hours sometimes. Definitely more problematic than the windows machine!

I have a nice ~year old decent spec Lenovo and an iPad Pro (which cost almost as much as the Lenovo once you add the pencil and case....). Anything that needs proper typing/input it’s the Lenovo. Everything else it’s the iPad.

A new M1 laptop would have to be helluva nice to entice me back...

must be 8 going on 9 years old and still W7 so effectively otherwise retired

Installing Win10 would be an obvious thing to do, assuming hardware compatibility.

If your work is mostly using MS Office, a Mac is going to cost you more and have no benefits over a decent Windows machine.

There is some truth in that. I just like navigating around Mac OS much more than Windows. It’s engineered to be pleasing to use with ergonomic swipes and more interesting visuals. App switching seems better to me, ditto file management. All those mini Dopamine releases when you flick through stuff on your phone and it’s satisfying - Apple have been nailing that for years including in MacOS (Exposé is like 15 years old now).

Oh, and I’ve never seen a Windows laptop with a trackpad as good as my 2012 MBP, let alone my 2018 one. If having this computer cost me £100/yr over a ‘comparable’ Windows PC (it doesn’t) I’d still pay for what I perceive as a better experience.

On the other hand, the Mac version of Excel is a bit less responsive so if I was knee deep in spreadsheets all day I’d probably kill myself get a PC.

I’ve used ms-dos and windows machine since the early 90’s and as a consequence use keyboard shortcuts. I just was never able to do on the MacBook what I could do on a windows machine…

See, I’m used to keyboard shortcuts for everything too and IME these are more ‘baked into’ MacOS compared with Windows. At any rate, I’m sure you can set up whatever keyboard shortcuts you like on either platform. You’re just describing a familiarity issue.

I just like navigating around Mac OS much more than Windows.

I'm the opposite. I like the simple way Windows is organized. Mac OS makes no intuitive sense to me.

You’re just describing a familiarity issue.

Yup, in windows it’s like muscle memory, in iOS it’s how the ****?!? Which is a problem if, like the OP, you’ve used windows the last twenty years. Which is my exact point... it’s still a real ****ing issue though.

I’d really echo what Superficial said.  I grew up with Macs as a designer in a publishing house from a YTS.   I’ve never been a computer nerd but after that used windows machines from ‘93 to 2010 and too me they were just a tool, so they never bothered me much but in the latter period the rate at which laptops became bogged down was a bit of an annoyance. Then again, it was a tool for the job.

Then I got offered a MBP for work and have used one ever since.  We have an old MB for downstairs googling, made a choice of an iMac as our main “house” computer, and when considering what Jnr could have for his homework got lucky enough and sold enough toys during Lockdown 1 to afford him the smaller iMac.

I couldn’t be more pleased.  The two iMacs deputise really well as alternate Netflix type machines on movie nights so we don’t have TV upstairs and again like superficial I’m used too and really enjoy the GUI over windows 10, although I will admit to only using it in a limited way to launch Zwift in the second hand mancave Dell all in one.

To me they just feel a bit more premium, last and are much more useable for longer in the main.  Our old MB is a 2011 model and despite a failed battery still works fine.

Miss OTS has my old 2011 MBA (11" version) which she uses for her homework. It's never seen any hardware upgrades unlike a lot of trigger's broom PCs that are allegedly 25 years old.
We've a couple of 2012 Mac Minis in use across the house too. 1 for music recording and one as a netflix / youtube box connected to a TV.

Nothing constructive to add. Just wondering what brings out the most venomous, reverse snobbery from the STW hipsters.

Apple computers or VW Transporters? They both really touch a nerve and inspire some very impassioned rants that point to deep personal trauma.

(MPB running like a dream since 2010 Yo. Windows sux)

I use an 11 year old iMac every day and it is still going fine although too old for any new OS updates now
I also use an 8 year old SSD laptop every day and it is also still going fine.

The laptop runs better than the Mac and it always did but both just work and have never had a single issue.

If the computer is on show I would get a Mac as they still look a lot nicer than any equivalent and as mine is very visible that matters to me. For a laptop I would just get a Windows SSD laptop.

Only ever used Macs since the 80s when I did (manually) the marketing artwork for the UK launch.
I currently produce three newspapers on a 2012 Mac Mini with an SSD retrofitted.
I like them but have never tried the alternative.

Cougar were you bullied by Steve Jobs as a child? It’s like a Mac thread cannot exist without your Apple tax rant

(You do know that Steve Jobs died like ten years ago, yes?)

Yes but I'm guessing you are older than, what, 15? 🙂

There is a review of computers for photography here:

https://luminous-landscape.com/macs-for-photography/

My tl:dr would be that if you're looking for a laptop, it's actually not so easy to point to one that has the same spec as a Mac for less money.

Made the switch back in about 2001 at same time as my wife. immediate family (e.g. mum and dad, FiL and MiL) recommended to switch a few years ago (as I am default tech support and needed less hassle), and now the wee company that I run are all on Macs. This is a lovely thing to be able to do, after years of working for mega corps and behaving to use windows/Lenovo (though I will say the hardware was pretty good, loved the wee light in the lid edge).

They last for years. Usually 8-10yrs for a machine.

It’s a lovely place to be. I use a 2019 13” MBP plugged into a big screen at home office. Usual office stuff + RAW photo editing, increasingly video editing and GarageBand as our work stuff now demands a lot more of that.

Hard to look past a new M1 MacBook Air if I was buying now, but most machines (inc iPads) we have bought have been apple refurbs.

Note: I also have a VW T6 🙂

Note: I also have a VW T6 🙂

But don't you realise that a 10 year old Berlingo would do exactly same thing for a fraction of the price?

You poor fool, kool-aid drinker etc....

This is great. We’re finally going to find out which is better windows or Mac.

I never warmed to it. I’ve used ms-dos and windows machine since the early 90’s and as a consequence use keyboard shortcuts. I just was never able to do on the MacBook what I could do on a windows machine… like, ever.

Those keyboard shortcuts were lifted wholesale from MacOS, Mr Gates took a bit of a bollocking from Mr Jobs when Apple was the bigger company for his theft of the 'look and feel'. There was also a legal spat.

Once you know that the funny Apple key is cmd, alt is option and control is control it's the same letters do everything as in Windows OS. The switch requires one to learn three new keys.

stevious

Full Member

This is great. We’re finally going to find out which is better windows or Mac.

It's actually been a help! Thanks for the replies everyone.

Basically, I'm swaying towards sticking with Windows, but will hold off making a final decision until the new year.

I think upgradability might be the sticking point - that and the fact that I would prefer a 15" screen to a 13".

If I ditch the idea of a fancy metal enclosure, I can get something very well specced (i7, 16Gb, 1T SSD, for instance) with a bigger screen for less than the standard price of a base MBP. I might even get a graphics card that will let me run Flight Simulator at decent settings. 🙂

I'll probably have a load more questions, but thanks very much for now, much appreciated.