Put it the other way. Why would you put money into the hands of despotic governments?
I wont.
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good folk to do nothing.
Do your family live in isreal? Then they are complicit in the genocide happening right now
Put it the other way. Why would you put money into the hands of despotic governments?
I wont.
But whether you like it or not I bet you do.
I have Israeli family that are vehemently against their government. Like many people in many parts of the world.
I had family that killed many, many Germans in WW2, and I had family that lived under Nazi rule. I had family that were refugees and lost every other family member to genocide (not the genocide you're thinking of though).
Boycotting seems a very simplistic answer to much more complex problems.
Products I can understand, but cultural influences? Good luck with that! Would that include music and musicians? Far and away the majority of American musicians are appalled at the direction their government has taken, so why should I make them suffer financially by boycotting their music?
Oh and BAME origin? You do realise that there were a lot of Black Americans who supported Diaper Don, voted for him and continue to think he’s their man and is doing God’s work. Take Ye, as an example.
I may have typed my post in jest to some extent. 😐
Boycotting seems a very simplistic answer to much more complex problems.
It's not just the actual boycotting and its dollar note impact, though.
It's also a general feeling that the rest of the world doesn't like you. So a misdirected boycott of a US firm that opposes Trump might lead to that brand putting out a statement reiterating that opposition and a "hey, you can buy from us, we're not assholes" movement might be born.
It's why I like to characterise Trump voters on Xitter as grass-chewing, inbred, rural halfwits. When someone who is not this stereotype retorts with "we're not all redneck idiots" I can reply with "don't act like it, then".
I heard a good conversation with a bloke who was studying WW2 allied propaganda methods. He was saying that a multi-pronged approach was needed.
Identify people with a lazy stereotype, so you can then have them reject that stereotype and not want to be lumped in with them.
Looks for clear ideological inconsistencies - Musk wants low paid foreign workers in the US working for him, many other prominent Republicans campaigned for American jobs for American guys and gals. Hammer these inconsistencies until they split.
Etc.
No - there's been plenty of better reasons to boycott various countries in the past. It's not new that American administrations are all of a sudden agressive bullies. Just because it's topical doesn't push it to the top of the pile.
(There's more to the USA than just Trump who won't be around forever.)
For those on the fence just look at the child labour laws being looked for Florida a popular holiday destination
Some of you just don't get it.
It's not just a question of getting through the next four years. If the American people see this government dictatorship as being good for them then in 2029 we get President JD Vance.
There is a point about China, but China is improving. They are allowing more freedoms, they are improving workers rights, they are building more low carbon power generation, they are embracing EV's and generally life is getting better albeit from a pretty low base.
America under Trump is going the other way and fast. Reduction of women's rights, total elimination of LGBT rights, child exploitation, aggressive moves towards Canada, Greenland and Panama, drill baby drill, handing Ukraine to Russia and Gaza to Israel, deporting people because of their colour or religion, trade wars which make everyone poorer etc etc.
If you support American organisations you are complicit in supporting these policies. The American people need to be made poorer. They need to understand there are repercussions to electing a fascist, and those repercussions mean their quality of life is worse.
Boycotting American companies might be a very blunt instrument. Buying an Orbea rather than a Specialized bike might be seen as hitting the wrong people - Specialized are based in California, a mostly Democratic state. But when Billy-Bob in Florida can't buy a Stumpjumper anymore because they have gone bust and he can't put SRAM gears on his bike because they've gone as well then he might just think that Trumps policies are not very good...
What we are seeing now is just the start of what Trump and Vance want. If this goes on, expect women to lose the vote along with pretty much anyone who isn't a rich, white, straight male, expect "conversion" camps for anyone who is LGBT, expect global conflict and environmental disaster.
The only people who can stop it is the American electorate, and the only way we can influence them is to make their lives worse under Trump, the same way that he is making our lives worse.
"Make America Great Again", has to demonstrably fail. If it succeeds for Americans that will add weight to the right wingers across the rest of the world. We'll end up with Reform running the UK and fascist governments across Europe. Do you really want that?
You are either against what America is doing and boycotting them, or supporting them. Which side of the divide do you want to tell your Children you were on.
It's a nice idea, and I will not ever be buying a Tesla (mostly becasue they're so fuggin ugly!)
But, tt's VERY difficult. The products discussed further up the thread pale into insignificance against the service sector. Even this website is likely hosted on a US owned service. Nearly everything digital (in the west) is US owned.
we are going to head to Canada instead.
Us too, hopefully.
I'm not going to boycott but I've always tried to at least somewhat buy ethically and I'm adding it into that. Especially Amazon, not for being american but for Bezos being a total ****, a horrendous employer and now the man behind Vance who somehow manages to be probably the biggest shit in this administration entirely made out of world beating shits.
I've got to be realistic with myself, I've not liked amazon for a long time but I still keep using them because they're cheap and convenient. So I'm not going to stop using them entirely, there's just no way, sooner or later I'll want something tomorrow. And amazon is so built-in now, with web hosting, with courier services- something I bought from someone else just arrived in an amazon van. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
But you don't have to completely boycott to make a little difference, that's important to remember, if 2 people cut their spending by half or 10 by 10% or 100 by 1% that's every bit as good as 1 by 100%- provided it's not an excuse not to do more at least. Just like with green stuff, people talk as if it's all or nothing and you have to basically be a monk living in a cave or you're a hypocrite, it's just so damaging, little actions count and if all you're going to do is little actions then you shouldn't ever be deterred by the fact that there are also big actions.
And no I'm not going to boycott good american companies, there's plenty of dudes I like out there doing good stuff and I'm not going to punish them for where they were born.
on the Amazon thing - if you need a widget tomorrow and it’s available from both a uk domiciled shop and Amazon, an unscrupulous person might buy both. When the uk one gets delivered, return it to Amazon unused for a refund… 😎
For all the boycotters, can I suggest telling the companies about it when you avoid something?
I suspect that if (Chris King/DeWalt/Jack Daniels/whoever) lose 1000 sales per month they probably won't care or even notice. But if they start regularly getting 1000 emails per month saying "I wanted your product but avoided you simply because you're American" this might make them start to sit up and take notice a little more, leading to changing companies' opinions towards the government etc...
I agree with the general sentiment from many that a boycott of of US products is both blunt and impossible to do thoroughly. But I think this is a case of perfect being the enemy of the good.
For one, I think the world 'boycott' can be more triggering than it needs to be. For me, all I am now doing is actually thinking about the biking stuff I buy, and when there is a suitable non-USA alternative, going for that. You could say 'what if the american business that looses out is anti-Trump, why punish them?', but that's not really helpful. If the alternative is buying something from say a German manufacturer, well, they definitely didn't vote Trump in and given the state of the German economy they probably need my business more. So I certainly don't want to 'punish' them by continuing to buy American.
Second, while I completely agree that the US has always been a bully, this behaviour seems to be severely escalating. Even if that's perception not reality, that simply means a boycott would have made sense a long time ago. Of course there are arguments to boycott many other countries, too, but the US is the world's defacto police force and is basically a rogue state at this point (see the santioning of members of the ICC, for example). China's domestic politics may be much more oppressive than the US, but geopolitically they are far more benign (at least, for now).
Finally, as boriselbrus pointed out, Trump(ism) really shouldn't been seen as a temporary blip. If Vance follows, there'll be more of the same. And I think it's likely Trump will try for a 3rd term or more -- consider that those suggesting he wouldn't accept the 2020 election results weren't taken seriously at the time and the democrats had no plan for how to deal with it, but in hindsight, its impossible to imagine Trump ever accepting he lost anything. He just doesn't have the capacity for that. He probably has enough control of the levers of power now that he won't need to fall back on inciting a half-arsed insurrection.
Last night in Ourense ,cycling along parts of the Compostela routes between Lisbon and Vigo up inland along the boarder.Nice hotel never booked as trying to stop using booking sites. Breakfast 30€ declined and then the usual email and phone no. Then told we have a 12% discount , breakfast and not paying 10/20 % fee to American booking site a win. Also cancelled Strava premium , next phone a Sony or Samsung . I don't have any TV ,streaming , Facebook to worry about . Next is getting rid of my Trek bike or trash it and have a warranty replacement.
For all the boycotters, can I suggest telling the companies about it when you avoid something?
We cancelled Prime, Spotify and Disney+ but none of them had a box to tick 'because Trump is a ****'
Im going to have serious look at this when i get home. Facebook is going. Amazon i only use for occasional mainly free books. I got locked into kindles early on but i think there are alternatives now so will look into that. Never bought anything else from amazon
I don't use Google apart from maps on occasion and outside of europe i dont know any alternatives. Im logged out of google on all my stuff.
The only microsoft i have is a basic operating system bought years ago. None of their programmes
Never been in a starbucks
Bikes are tricky as Japan is also on my list but my Shand is almost all European kit. Ill never buy another new bike more than likely and hate derailleirs so hope and rohloff will see me right
Never use trip advisor or any of those 3rd party sites.
I try to avoid foodstuffs from non European companies. Something to look at more closely
Paypal i do use but that is going to be ditched.
Spotify American? Bugger thats going to be difficult. Any European alternatives?
To me its a basic ethical stance.
What else might i have missed?
On the avoiding Amazon kindle front - you can borrow ebooks from your library and send them to your kindle. Need to manage them via caliber an open source library on your computer.
Spotify is like Britt Ekland Sweedish
Spotify is like Britt Ekland Sweedish
Good to know, I took advantage of getting the wife and daughter to get rid of things we can easily live without
So why is Japan on the boycott list?
Well said Boris👍
Is the absolutely disgraceful way they're behaving towards Canada not enough to make you do it?
@andrewh , ohh be fair with your quotations.
My point was clearly that we don't have the same level of cross border trade with them that Canada (or Mexico) does.
If I walked into Tesco now, with the exception of:
Bourbon and Californian Wines in the booze isle.
Reeses / Hersheys chcoclate-ish flavoured crap
And if it's a really big Tesco Extra it might have a 6ft wide "USA" produce stand at the back with lucky charms and Nerds on it.
I'd struggle to actually find anything that was made in the USA.
Whereas in Canada half the supermarket crossed the border so there's a meaningful boycott going on.
And then it get's even more complicated when people start taking about American brands. Budweiser is unquestionably American, but owned by a German company and made in the EU. Ben and Jerries ice cream, very American. But also anti-Trump and owned by Unilever, so actually British, but Unilever are seemingly being pro-Trump. So should we boycott their "American" ice cream but continue to use their washing up liquid?
So why is Japan on the boycott list?
Killing whales and other eco crimes. Subjugation of women amongst other issues
Tinas. For me its all about putting money into the American economy so anything from a us owned company.
Ourense
We walked up the coast recently and the inland walk a few years back, both great. An alternative experience is turning up at hotel in Spain where the prices are higher than on booking and the receptionist refuses to even price match. Go outside, make the reservation on booking and go back in. We used to offer to split the 12% but after a few refusals or worse just use booking, their loss. 🙁
I take your point but there's a lot more than that. Heinz for example are US owned, so no more of their beans for me. Branston are a UK company owned by a Japanese company, they'll get all my business now rather than flipping between the two.
Kraft, which owns Heinz, is massive. I'm going to try to familiarise myself with their list of brands and avoid them all next time I'm in the supermarket.
I never buy Coke or Pepsi anyway, I did buy Tropicana and Copella but both are owned by Pepsi so not any more. Smaller British brands should hopefully benefit from this.
I never use Asda owned by Walmart and what about all the premier league teams owned by Americans
I take your point but there's a lot more than that.
But then you could take that to any degree you like.
Make you porridge with only British oats via only British brands in paper packaging to avoid polythene made from imported LNG? Then how are you making sure that the fertilizer / herbicide / pesticide wasn't imported?
My point is that in Canada it would be easy to say "this is Canadian maple syrup" and "this is an American truck" even if the Canadian maple syrup came in a plastic bottle made in America, and the truck was built from parts made in Canada. By the time you get to the UK the 'American' part is almost ubiquitous and harder to define.
Take your Branston Beans, European countries have had negligible bean production this century, the USA produced over a billion tonnes a year. Bean production, 2023
tinas. For me its all about putting money into the American economy so anything from a us owned company.
So out of pedantry, where do Ben and Jerrys and Budweiser fall on that (without just saying you're too posh to consider either of them anyway 😉 )
For all the talk of a possible boycott of American products then you’re not going to make much difference, Angus Hanton’s book is quite an eye opener as to the extent of American influence and ownership of the UK
It does all feel a bit futile. On the most basic level most of cloud hosting is AWS, Azure, Google, Oracle... So unless you stop using anything web based you've fallen at the first hurdle. Then who amongst us is using Apple or Android for mobile devices. Microsoft, Apple or Google for laptops.
Then there is are the food mega corporations that own so many brands - same across so many sectors.
Given the ease of movement of capital internationally and the prevalence of global supply chains across all sectors it's basically impossible to boycott the US wholesale
This is basically the mistake Trump is making - he is applying 19th Century policy to a 21st Century world
Spotify is like Britt Ekland Sweedish
Good to know, I took advantage of getting the wife and daughter to get rid of things we can easily live without
Also platforms utter dickheads like Joe Rogan who preaches his “bro science,trust me bro” mentality and gets paid £300m to do so whilst preaching utter lies and scientific untruths, Daniel Ek of Spotify is a tech bro **** just like all the rest of them,
I never use Asda owned by Walmart
It isn't.
https://www.tdrcapital.com/tdr-capital-becomes-majority-owner-of-asda/
on the Amazon thing - if you need a widget tomorrow and it’s available from both a uk domiciled shop and Amazon, an unscrupulous person might buy both. When the uk one gets delivered, return it to Amazon unused for a refund… 😎
Unscrupulous, sod that, I'm very scrupulous and do this as often as possible.
It does all feel a bit futile. On the most basic level most of cloud hosting is AWS, Azure, Google, Oracle... So unless you stop using anything web based you've fallen at the first hurdle.
This is why no should be puritan about this -- a full boycott is impossible, but prioritising products that primarily benefit non-US companies and non-US jobs can often be neither difficult nor painful.
So out of pedantry, where do Ben and Jerrys and Budweiser fall on that (without just saying you're too posh to consider either of them anyway 😉 )
Well i dont buy either of them. Bud is certainly out. Ben and Jerrys probably.
Visa and MasterCard are both American. I've not checked Amex as I don't have one, but going by the name alone probably. What alternatives are there?
.
As Legometreology says it's probably impossible to boycott 100% but that shouldn't stop us doing what we can. I have plenty of American stuff, eg Chris King, Thomson bits on my bikes, two of which are Salsas, DeWalt tools and I drive a Ford, I'm not getting rid of any of it while it works but replacements won't be American. I'm trying to think which US companies I give money to now and reducing that as much as I can. Cash is some of the answer to this particular question but I'd like a different card if possible too?
It could be a big problem one day. Wero is trying to become the pan-European alternative to being dependent on USA providers (sort of the successor of Giropay). There’s isn’t UK involvement at all as far as I know.
I no longer stay at Trump hotels or play golf on Trump-owned courses. Beyond that, globalisation of everything makes it incredibly hard to disentangle who owns what. Meanwhile, Trump's own tariff fixation and Musk's fascist leanings are probably doing more to damage the US economy than any sort of UK consumer boycott is going to manage.
That said, if you feel that boycotting US products gives you a sense of agency, then why not? A lot of this is about feeling you're doing something rather than sitting, helplessly, watching the US go completely nuts. But any real impact would come from actions at a government/state level.
Tesla, I suppose, is the exception to this, but it's untypical in being a huge, day-glo painted target with a very clear personal connection to Elon Musk.
Depending on what trade deals are made we may soon have the opportunity to boycott American chlorine washed chicken.
I was bang up for trying this, bikes included. Then I saw some half price Levis on the 'Zon, and yeah, they're really nice. Must try harder.
One of the best things it seems Europe could do would be to make some viable local alternatives to the dominant tech/ media platforms... how hard can that be?
Definitely avoiding anything made or owned by Septics for the next 4 years. It's not 100% possible, eg Google/ android, but big ticket items certainly are in the mostpart.
Chris King ? No. Buy Hope or Rideworks.
Bikes - Definitely don't need anything American.
Forks and shocks ? Ohlins or Magura, or DT Swiss.
Shimano not SRAM.
Next car ? Definitely not American owned. Real European, South Korea or Japanese made.
Holiday / significant Anniversary trip - going to Madiera, not Florida. I definitely said 'no' to spending money in America.
Next sports watch ? Polar or Suunto, not Garmin.
Only buying American where I'm tied such as I had to buy some spare bits for my MSR stove. But would buy Optimus / Katadyn if I was buying a new one.
Yes it may hit some non-Trump voters. That's the nature of collective punishment. Tough titties.
One 'thank ****' thing is Europe having developed Galileo as a sat nav system.
The Septics could have many moden European systems nightmarish if Dump decided to **** around with the GPS service.
Other non-Septic options.
Shoes (eg running, walking etc. ON running shoes. Meindl, Scapa, Zamberlan).
Power tools. Bosch.
The American people need to be made poorer. They need to understand there are repercussions to electing a fascist, and those repercussions mean their quality of life is worse.
We don't exactly have a glowing track record here ourselves. We've had a succession of headbangers in charge since, what, Gordon Brown?
