[Closed] Anyone on here tried heroine?

You are aware that alcohol is a drug ? Just a legal one

I never made any claims that it wasn't but its effects are known and the majority of people can enjoy it without ruining their lives.

I was under the impression that it was fairly uncommon outside of society's underclasses and rockstar circles (which aren't always separate things).

That really is quite a pompous statement, do you go out of your bubble much? Or are you really that naive?

Not sure I agree with this.

its effects (alcohol) are known and the majority of people can enjoy it without ruining their lives.

'According to the 2009/10 BCS, victims believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol in half (50%) of all violent incidents, similar to the level in the 2008/09 survey.

Based on the 2009/10 BCS, there were 986,000 violent incidents where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol

The number of alcohol-related deaths in the UK has increased since the early 1990s, rising from the lowest figure of 4,023 (6.7 per 100,000 population) in 1992 to the highest of 9,031 (13.6 per 100,000) in 2008. In 2009 the number of deaths fell to 8,664 (12.8 per 100,000).

Not sure I agree with this.

its effects (alcohol) are known and the majority of people can enjoy it without ruining their lives.

If it is true, then it's very diffiult to be sure that it isn't true of other drugs too. There seems to be very little information available on the numbers of people who take illegal drugs (be it the odd smoke of green, through to shooting up with H) who also live relatively normal lives. I guess the trouble is the only ones who actually come above the radar and get coverage are the ones who take it to excess/extreme levels either through quantity used or the resultant lifestyle.

This is the problem with talking to many drugs campaigners, they only ever have to deal with the f*ck-ups, 'cos the normals never need their help...

+1 for being surprised at the number who've tried heroin and crack.

I've never had anything class A and don't want to. I'd never consider a hallucinogenic as I fear my trip would comprise very bad things.

I did once say to mrs. S that if I could get hold of some pharmaceutical quality diamorphine then I would like to try it. We were a bit pissed at the time and I remember she wasn' too happy with my comment. She threw one of her trainers at my head and I fell off my chair.

If a good reason to not take hard drugs was needed...

Remember - it could be YOU
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+1 for the surprise at the ammount of testers on here.

I have done, E's, coke, weed, speed - all rubbish and all when i was about 19-20 never liked any of it just went with the drinking culture at the time. Didnt like not having any control.

Heroin - surely the worst substance ever - ok maybe crack and crystal meth are in comepetition. Its a vile disgusting life wrecking and terrifying downward spiral in my opinion. I was trerrified from Grange Hill days with Zammo - and that just say no message stuck with me.

Never seen it used or know anyone who has ever used it and hopefully it will stay that way. I am pretty naive to all this thing though.

I never suggested alcohol was entirely without risks but for the majority of us a drink is a simple pleasure that tends to have a minimal impact on our lives or the lives of those around us. We're not all out there drinking ourselves to death or drunkenly kicking some poor sod to death.

The number of deaths per 100,000 actually seems fairly low when you consider how deeply ingrained the use of alcohol is in British culture. Sorry to sound callous but 8,664 deaths related to alcohol in a population of 61million people is low. On a bad year more people can die from seasonal flu and many more are thought do die due to the cold every year. The fact pensioners are being killed off by high energy bills concerns me more than a few alcoholics and drunken chavs kicking the bucket.

Keva, WTF as addictive as sugar and fat!!!?? Never seen anyone shoplifting, burgling or robbing for a Snickers and a packet of Frazzles!!!

Plenty of deaths though.

Tried almost everything at some point in my misguided youth but never touched smack. Thought I might have liked it a bit too much.

Crack is hoot though!

bloody hell, cant believe how many people are saying heroin is fairly harmless
been a bobby for 21 years and have seen the misery and torment it causes in literally hundreds of people, never met heroin addict who wants to be on heroin.Ive met plenty cocaine users who like coke, but never a heroin addict
i feel very very sad for heroin users

Does anyone actually believe that our laws surrounding drugs are either effective or measured?

If heroin was made a prescription drug with it's distribution and purity closely monitored what would happen? Would the police have more or less crimes involving addicts? It's only really the perception of the general public through decades of scaremongering and misinformation that is preventing us taking a far more reasoned approach to addiction and recreational drug use.

I think a lot of people hear the word 'drugs' and feel scared. This is a major part of the problem and one of the main obstacles to reform.

How can we continue to license nicotine and alcohol sales? How can naturally occurring substances and fungi be 'banned'? It's absurd and contradictory.

john drummer - is that the same Ed Johnson that used to hang out in Players in Wakefield?

I'm with BigDave on this one

I might be wrong (having never taken heroin) but it is possible to have a drink or two and stop, but when you take heroin you are taking your body off to a completely different place in one shot and you are there for hours.

Whereas I can get home from work and have a bottle of beer or a glass of wine and can still - quite safely - put my children to bed or cook a meal.

I might be wrong (having never taken heroin) but it is possible to have a drink or two and stop, but when you take heroin you are taking your body off to a completely different place in one shot and you are there for hours.

Whereas I can get home from work and have a bottle of beer or a glass of wine and can still - quite safely - put my children to bed or cook a meal.

Surely that's more about appropriate dosage than about specific substance though? If you compare 0.1mg of heroin and a bottle of Smirnoff your probably safer with you kids on H than on the Vodka!

MF - on more than one occasion I'd come home from a big weekend, have a toot and go to work. Once again this is about knowledge vs assumption. As a couple of people have stated previously it is entirely possible to continue with a normal life whilst being a habitual user.

Having avoided heroin thus far, watching Dog The Bounty Hunter has done a fine job of putting me off crack, heroin and crystal meth. The highs are clearly not worth the lows...

If you compare 0.1mg of heroin and a bottle of Smirnoff your probably safer with you kids on H than on the Vodka!

Really? People tend to forget that there is a whole underworld of organised crime linked to the supply and distribution of drugs. That 0.1mg of heroine has undoubtedly been handled by violent criminals. I don't recall any instances where Smirnoff has murdered people to keep its supply lines open or to silence their competition. I don't have kids but if I did I would rather they grew up in a world full of off licence owners than drug dealers.

What annoys about the 'lets all take a more measured approach to drugs' line is that the people spouting such crap forget that the drugs they buy are ultimately tainted with the blood of countless people.

Despite that, on the whole I believe legalisation in some form would control the problem better than the current method.

Surely that's more about appropriate dosage than about specific substance though? If you compare 0.1mg of heroin and a bottle of Smirnoff

Yeah except the nature of herion is such that you don't just take one tiny does then carry on. It tends to consume your life making you forget about anything else, pretty much from the off. There is (usually) no middle ground. As I understand it, anyway.

What annoys about the 'lets all take a more measured approach to drugs' line is that the people spouting such crap forget that the drugs they buy are ultimately tainted with the blood of countless people.

You aren't thinking enough. As soon as say cannabis is legalised it will be grown commercially in uk by someone like pfizer thereby totally undermining the criminal infrastructure from grower to smuggler to dealer.

What annoys about the 'lets all take a more measured approach to drugs' line is that the people spouting such crap forget that the drugs they buy are ultimately tainted with the blood of countless people.

Surely prohibition (ie the government) is to blame for this?

it is entirely possible to continue with a normal life whilst being a habitual user.

true to an extent..
in my earlier comment I stated that I knew of only a couple of people that managed to regain control of their lives after habitual use..
this left out the handful of people I know that lead 'normal' lives while regularly using heroin.. (job.. family.. consumerism etc..)
they are still totally at the mercy of their addiction.. the drug still has to be their number one priority..
as the police officer above mentioned.. all of them would rather [i]not[/i] take heroin..

Really? People tend to forget that there is a whole underworld of organised crime linked to the supply and distribution of drugs. That 0.1mg of heroine has undoubtedly been handled by violent criminals. I don't recall any instances where Smirnoff has murdered people to keep its supply lines open or to silence their competition. I don't have kids but if I did I would rather they grew up in a world full of off licence owners than drug dealers.

Again the line of discussion takes a different course! In MF's example he was talking about the effect it would have on him and his own personal level of control (or words to that effect).

If you want to go off on one about supply chains, organized crime etc... then that's fine. I would point out though, that just as there are legal supplies of heroin (dimorphine) there are also illegal supplies of alcohol, no doubt also controlled by criminal gangs hell bent on creating your nightmare world. What you seem to be arguing for is a controlled market that removes the dodgy methods of production and distribution. I would completely agree with your sentiments if my assumption is correct.

What annoys about the 'lets all take a more measured approach to drugs' line is that the people spouting such crap forget that the drugs they buy are ultimately tainted with the blood of countless people.

I think your making some crass assumptions there about the people who support taking a more measured approach.

I never made any claims that it wasn't but its effects are known and the majority of people can enjoy it without ruining their lives

I don't recall any instances where Smirnoff has murdered people to keep its supply lines open or to silence their competition. I don't have kids but if I did I would rather they grew up in a world full of off licence owners than drug dealers.

What annoys about the 'lets all take a more measured approach to drugs' line is that the people spouting such crap forget that the drugs they buy are ultimately tainted with the blood of countless people.

Big Dave, I think you are also forgetting this statistic,

Based on the 2009/10 BCS, there were 986,000 violent incidents where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol

( I don't mean to be picking on you by the way), heroin and alcohol are both harmful to individuals and society and cost a fortune in money and police time, especially as the law stands.

Yeah except the nature of herion is such that you don't just take one tiny does then carry on. It tends to consume your life making you forget about anything else, pretty much from the off. There is (usually) no middle ground. As I understand it, anyway.

This is what I have heard too. It's certainly the line that is taken by pretty much all of the media outlets I've experience.

I have to say though that I'm getting less and less convinced of it's accuracy. Not that I have any personal experience or research to back my opinion up I hasten to add! It just seems odd to me that so many people can try it and not get sucked into BigDave's scary world of drugs-hell.

I don't see how the Government could ever legalise drugs. Alcohol is relatively low risk and has been used widely quite literally since man found out how to make it. Can you seriously imagine a time when there will be a minimum legal age for people to buy drugs like heroine or cannabis? Get real.

Drugs like heroine, cocaine, and arguably cannabis, can induce severe long term physiological problems in a very short space of time and after relatively small quantities have been ingested. No way the powers that be will ever legalise them; they are far too dangerous to justify any revenue raised through the duty that would undoubtedly be levied on them. The NHS would probably also go into meltdown if more people started using drugs recreationally.

I'm also quite sure most drug users would resent the government telling them how strong the substances they are allowed to take should be and having to pay duty on them and so the illegal trade would still continue.

Alcohol is relatively low risk and has been used widely quite literally since man found out how to make it.

Qwality

Where do you get your ideas from? Genuine question as you strike me as someone who is either an ex-addict or has had their life blighted by drug addiction

I don't see how the Government could ever legalise drugs. Alcohol is relatively low risk and has been used widely quite literally since man found out how to make it. Can you seriously imagine a time when there will be a minimum legal age for people to buy drugs like heroine or cannabis? Get real.

Yes I can imagine a time, several govts have and are considering it. Alcohol isn't low risk as has already been pointed out in this thread.

How long do you think the native Americans having been chewing Coca leaves? Ditto Opium poppies and Ganja plants? Alcohol and the fermentation methods to produce it are probably a much younger invention (amateur historian mode off!). So learning how to make it, and picking it off a plant and chewing it/sticking it on a handy camp fire is likely to be more ingrained in human society than brewing.

Drugs like heroine, cocaine, and arguably cannabis, can induce severe long term physiological problems in a very short space of time and after relatively small quantities have been ingested. No way the powers that be will ever legalise them; they are far too dangerous to justify any revenue raised through the duty that would undoubtedly be levied on them.

The research doesn't back this up. You're right about the political element though. Too many of Joe Public believe they are dangerous without understanding why, so it's political suicide to legalise them... ...at the moment anyway. Hoepfully education about this will change the populist viewpoint (hint hint!).

The NHS would probably also go into meltdown if more people started using drugs recreationally.

Hyperbole I'm afraid, no evidence that this would happen from other countries that have experimented. Besides the increased tax take could cover any short term spike.

I'm also quite sure most drug users would resent the government telling them how strong the substances they are allowed to take should be and having to pay duty on them and so the illegal trade would still continue.

You don't know many drug users then! Think of how many alcohol users resent the govt. imposing limits on how strong their alcohol is. Not many right?

The illegal trade wouldn't continue on nearly the same scale. It'd just be a matter of making the tax low enough so that it would be economically unviable to produce and import it illegally. Not difficult economics really. If you're worried about the ethical aspect of it, I'm sure some entrepeneurial soul would sort out some fairtrade opium for you!

Alcohol is relatively low risk

go into any slightly lived-in looking pub in any town or city on a weekday afternoon and tell this to any one of the old boys quietly sitting in the corner nursing their pints..

I've known people to give up mainline heroin.. cocaine.. tranquilisers and meth-amphetamine habits in my time.. plus a whole host of other fun things.. no easy task and the mental scars are deep and harrowing.. but the one thing that they will admit to still craving almost constantly.. even years later.. is alcohol..

only once when I wake up and once when I go to bed

go into any slightly lived-in looking pub in any town or city on a weekday afternoon and tell this to any one of the old boys quietly sitting in the corner nursing their pints..

aye you're maybe right about that in some ways MF... but from my experience.. even your seasoned alkie will want to make it down to the pub for a pint for exactly the reason that you've suggested.. misery loves company..

those old boys (and girls) will also tell you there's nowt wrong with a good drink.. it's what makes Britain great etc etc.. before they proceed to bore you to death with tales of friends that are dying or dead from drink related illnesses...

I'm pretty sure that one day I'll be one of those old folks in the corner of the pub.. I'd rather that than be sat at home in a pool of my own effluent in front of Jeremy Kyle.. cold.. alone and confused..

I hope that there's a British pub left to go to..

Yeah, just asking because I know of one person in my life who killed herself through drink and she didn't venture out much other than to buy cheap vodka - not often was she in a pub. And if she was at a family gathering she rarely got drunk - even at weddings and the such when there would be free booze on tap. I assume this was because she didn't want us to see her drunk.

Where do you get your ideas from? Genuine question as you strike me as someone who is either an ex-addict or has had their life blighted by drug addiction

Very strange thing to say but no; I have never had any addiction problems. Life is far too interesting to view through the haze of addiction. I do like the odd pint but I am able to excercise common sense and self control and know when to stop. In my eyes therefore alcohol is low risk. I'm sure there are millions of people in this country who also excercise moderation when drinking and would feel the same way.

I have known drug addicts and I've seen one family who lives close to me being torn apart by addiction. To an outside observer who didn't know them they would appear to be a fairly affluent middle class family where a couple of members smoked dope occasionally. Unfortunately for them below the surface there were problems with long term heroine addiction and some pretty messy consequences. I like to think it is best to learn from the mistakes of others in some areas of life. I don't think you need to have been an addict to be able to express views on the nature of, and the damage caused by, addiction.

My heroine of choice

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Very strange thing to say

I only asked because your previous comments seemed to stem from a gut reaction rather than a considered, dispassionate viewpoint.

Peyote answers your previous comments very well at the top of the page, guess we'll have to agree to disagree huh?

don't see how the Government could ever legalise drugs. Alcohol is relatively low risk and has been used widely quite literally since man found out how to make it. Can you seriously imagine a time when there will be a minimum legal age for people to buy drugs like heroine or cannabis? Get real.

Serious question.
So what happens in Holland, is there a legal age, I've never been there, is the streets full of junkies or what?
From what I know the country seems ok.

BTW I've never done any drugs.

I mentioned about the demographic of people who I thought tended towards heroin and got,

That really is quite a pompous statement, do you go out of your bubble much? Or are you really that naive?

Now, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong, or naiive (I said as much in the post), but pompous? I think perhaps we've a misunderstanding.

That said, am I wrong? I've seen plenty of methodone users shuffling around in chemists (my mum worked in a pharmacy before she retired so I've spent more time than most in a dispensing chemist), and they mostly have a lot of features in common. White, teens / 20s typically, drawn faces that look like they've not slept for a month, sunken features, skin like a dropped pizza. Some stand stock still like they're away with the fairies, or more usually twitchy and fidgety and can't stand still. Generally wearing a track suit or other stereotypical 'chav' uniform, or pyjamas.

OTOH I've yet to see, for instance, the manager of the local branch of HSBC down there to have his needles exchanged.

Like I say, I've had little direct experience of heroin and other class A substances. What I have seen around me would lead me to believe that, certainly in my area at least, hard drugs are the plaything of the sort of person you'd find running out of your back yard rather than providing you with financial advice.

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So what happens in Holland, is there a legal age, I've never been there, is the streets full of junkies or what?

You need to be careful about how you view the Netherlands. It is actually a very sober, restrained society. It's just a part of Amsterdam that's very different. And yes, there are a lot of hard drugs in that part of the city.

A good friend, whom everyone was certain would become a heavyweight junkie, managed to avoid it at the last minute, and has ended up as a settled family guy.

Of the two people I know who died young, one was 17 and had cancer. The other was 27 (a day shy of his 28th birthday) and drank himself to death in 10 years.

Most of the problems of illegal drugs stem from prohibition rather than from he actual drug itself. A huge proportion of crime is the result of junkies getting money to score. Across the country 50% in some areas 70%.

Legalise heroin and cut crime dramatically. A junkie with plenty of smack bothers no one.

Different drugs require different approaches but there is no doubt that -prohibition has failed and the more pragmatic and relaxed attitudes in other countries gives better outcomes.

The Netherlands is a very similar country in some ways but because of their very different drug policies they have afar less issues with drugs. Junkies are dying out there - there is almost no heroin scene at all - the average age of their junkies is in the 30s and getting older each year and less of them, in the UK they are average late teens / early 20s IIRC and each year the average is lower and there are more of them.

bloody hell, cant believe how many people are saying heroin is fairly harmless

Heroin itself, if used carefully (like alcohol), is fairly harmless. It's the illegality and subsequent crime and deprivation that comes with it's use by many addicts, that causes the harm. But we know this already.

been a bobby for 21 years and have seen the misery and torment it causes in literally hundreds of people, never met heroin addict who wants to be on heroin.Ive met plenty cocaine users who like coke, but never a heroin addict

See, if people really din't want to do it, they'd not do it. Trouble with Heroin, is that addicts really really do want to use it. When they say they don't want to be addicted, what they mean is they don't want to be in that desperate state where they're constantly craving the drug, and their lives are completely ruled by their need to get it. But if they're being absolutely honest, they really do want to experience that high. My very limited experience of using it taught me that this was something I really wanted (I clamoured for the hospital staff to give me some more, but they refused), and that getting hooked was incredibly dangerous. Fortunately, I possess enough self-control when it comes to such things, to know I can never get involved. Sadly not everyone possesses such control. I know quite a number of people who have got involved, some of them managed to control their habits sufficiently to hold down a reasonably stable life, others went out of control and ended up needing help. One or two are still in trouble.

Even strictly controlled, Alcohol is still the most destructive drug in our society, by a long, long way. If Heroin were controlled to the degree alcohol is, then we'd see a tiny fraction of the problems we see now.