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@scotroutes thanks - will check them out next time we're up.
I've ridden Wolftrax but not managed to try Glenlivet or do any natural stuff.
Ah yes. There's Wolftrax and Glenlivet too if you're into that sort of thing.
Random observations of my friends' experience who have holiday lets (and whose families have been near Fort William since the dark ages, which ended locally in 1973) and another that had B&Bs and also from poking around myself:
- they do week long holiday lets instead of B&B. B&B is a 70 hour week nightmare from what I can see.
- changeover day is an attempt to fit the entire working week into a single day!
- if you are located near something that's not a hill or Loch (eg a nice town, a NTS site or visitor centre, a well regarded pub or restaurant), the season can be surprisingly long
- occupancy rates in the season are high and people will book literally years in advance. One friend's places are 90% booked for the next 3 years. I was stunned.
- it's hard to find trades and labour. One friend had the same local cleaner and handyman for years, and did everything themselves. Then they all three got older. There aren't many young people (because it's the middle of nowhere). So they converted a building that was on the property for accommodation for a live-in handyman and cleaner who basically runs the whole shebang 2 days a week, and then I think he is very much in demand locally as a tradie the rest of the week. He's a great guy from EU Central Europe that's been there since before Brexit, but it took a while to find someone suitable
- there's a biiiiiiiug difference between "this is how I make my money" and "this is some extra cream on top of my pension/main job income from elsewhere"
For all of my rightmove-surfing, I am not sure I could hack it really in the middle of nowhere running accommodation. I think Stanley Kubrick made a fly on the wall documentary about what happened to a guy like me who did similar...
Scotlands air b&b is a hit or miss, a week in Mull after one night moved 4 miles as the acc was bad but my partner's daughter had arranged it. Managed to get a nearby place that looked like it was stuck in the 1980's but it was an upgrade and an additional £350 for 3 nights. Can't say I'd rush back to Mull
Stayed one night at the Oyster Inn Connel bridge , great room this time and plenty of choice for the breakfast but a 3/4 cooked breakfast let it down so can only blame the "chef" Lots of plates going back hardly touched should tell them to up their game especially the 6 disgruntled Italians sitting nearby
Thanks again.
I'd be still 'working' all be it hopefully on a part time basis.
If we do any holiday lets it would ideally be the self contained Glamping Pod idea - not interested in B&B or a whole extra property.
Understand about having local amenities if offering a self catering type affair - good pub is a good shout!
At the moment this is an idea and want to delve into it as much as possible with pros, cons etc so that we can make an informed decision - can't do this half baked or wing it - once it's done it'll be hard to reverse it.
Again thanks for all the feedback - greatly appreciated.
In all honesty Cairngorms is looking lit the better option - from Kingussie up to Grantown as you're not too far from Inverness.
Will keep digging and probably ask way more questions.
Will keep digging and probably ask way more questions.
Obviously this is not part of the market I 'work' in, or in fact have been a consumer of so you need to take what I have to say with a dollop of scepticism....
Pods....I don't think the market is saturated but it's certainly matured over the last decade. Some of the early ones are now looking a bit tired and customer expectations are rising in terms of amenities. Also, so many farms or larger properties have diversified into it that you'll be up against plenty of alternatives - especially if you go to a honeypot location like the Cairngorms. You could be faced with buying an existing business with pods that'll need replacing soon or a field that's not in an ideal location.
Planning permission - don't think its a shoe in you'll get it. You'll have two hurdles - planning permission and a short term let licence. You'd think the two might be connected....but that would be joined up thinking! From what I've heard it's easier to get pod permission as a diversification of an existing business like a farm than it is as a newbie who has just bought a bit of land, especially in an area already well provisioned for accommodation. And especially especially in a national park as you would be in the Gorms. Also, the licence - was easy enough as an existing business (although it's a fair dollop of cash) but again rumours that the limits of licences that'll be granted might be close to the limit now in certain areas of the Highlands so it'll be a case of on a waiting list and one in, one out.
There is also potentially tourist tax about to come in - 10% levy on all accommodation that you'll be administering. Unclear at the moment if that will be baked into the fee you charge and essentially a 10% additional tax on the owner, or an additional fee that you'll be responsible for collecting and passing on.
My issue with pods as a business is that unless you are physically at a activity venue (like on a lochside or a beach) most of your trade will be one or two night stays of tourists on road trips. Offer them for a minimum of 7 nights with a fixed changeover day and you'll mostly be empty. It doesn't matter if guests are in for one night or 7 they generate the same amount of cleaning and laundry. The advantage of a whole property (if it's nice) is that you can expect near 100% occupancy on week long bookings only. Do you really want every day to be a changeover? Because you'll have guests arriving and leaving 7 days a week. And if you are doing the pod model with common bathroom facilities you be expected to clean them every day. If you are doing pods with their own bathrooms you in a totally different financial outlay model. People do pay silly money for pods stays though - I'm always amazed at some of the nightly rates for what, in the lower specced pods, is in effect a wooden shed with minimal insulation, no cooking or bathroom facilities.
Having said all that, IF you could get the permissions and IF you were in a desirable location and IF you were prepared to commit to 7 days a week in season of some work then a piece of land with some pods and a Caravan Club or Camping (CS) and Caravan Club (CL) certified site with mown in spots for 5 touring vans or campers could make sense. CL/CSs are much less work and less outlay - some are barely more than a field with no amenities like a toilet/shower and no power hookup, yet still charge £20 odd a night. Add both and the price is nearer £35/40pn. 5 spots in a good location that can expect a high occupancy is £500pw pure profit. I get nothing like that with a £275K property and all the cleaning, washing and ironing involved.
he is a snow plough driver, burger seller and wicked bike rider.
{Glances at screens covered in spreadsheets}
Bastard.
Convert makes a good observation that there is demand for campervan places, at least in some areas. Probably even more seasonal though? The trick there might be to find a community that has issues with camper parking and be bringing a solution rather than seeming to attract vans to an area with inadequate roads. I think pods are pretty seasonal too - whilst I'm sure some people go there in winter, a cottage with a cosy fireplace, indoor toilet etc is much more appealing.
If everyone has put you off the holiday rental game - you could of course look to buy a property that could have an adjoining normal rental. No cleaning, laundry, etc to worry about, and perhaps not hard to find tenants in high-demand areas. The net proceeds may be not that different if you were paying someone else to do the graft. No idea what happens with stamp duty (actually LBTT in Scotland) if you buy one property that can be divided like this - don't take any advice from a Ms Raynor, but I believe there's a Mr Farage who seems to know how to work the system!
Sorry if I was overly negative about running a holiday let, obviously it can work out. It really is going to be dependent on the unit(s) though. Ours was a 3 story house with 1.5 bathrooms, it was a pain to clean due to size and configuration. And we weren't on site, it wasn't far away but still needed to load stuff up in the car to take round - all adds to the time. And as it was a busy area there was quite a bit of competition, we tried charging more for it but we didn't get the occupancy. Quite frustrating when people are happy to hire posh tents nearby for 2 or even 3 times as much as a whole house. At one point we had a 3rd bedroom and it made no difference to the amount we could charge - it was just extra washing and cleaning. We locked it off - at least one person tried to break into the room (during COVID - some of the guest were awful at that time). We got rid of that room entirely in the end. And I did really resent the time spent as I work full time, it used to clobber my weekends. If I was working less it wouldn't be as bad.
I wouldn't completely rule out doing it again but I would be far more selective over the rental unit. A little 2 person flat or bothy type thing on one level, would be quick to turn over and not bring in much less (if any) income compared to the house we rented out.
However the point still stands that to get somewhere like that is going to require an investment that I'm just not convinced is worth it.
he is a snow plough driver, burger seller and wicked bike rider.
{Glances at screens covered in spreadsheets}
Bastard.
Did I also mention he is handsome, fit as a fiddle, has taken up salsa dancing, learned to snow board....even I am jealous of his lifestyle at present!
during COVID - some of the guest were awful at that time
Same - it was the first season we ran ours (my mother had run it previously) and there were some colossal arseholes holidaying in the UK that year. People used to all inclusive abroad who just didn't know how to behave. Thankfully they are back trashing Magaluf instead.
Quite frustrating when people are happy to hire posh tents nearby for 2 or even 3 times as much as a whole house.
Odd isn't it. Friends up the road with a very modest property which is effectively one and a half bedrooms with no TV and a single really uncomfortable sofa for in theory 4 adults gets dangerously close to what ours with its 3 massive bedrooms, all en suite, gets. There is defiantly a goldilocks sized rental that maximised income whilst minimising outlay and changeover time/cost.
The smartest money might be to buy a mobile home in a holiday park. The money people are prepared to pay for a week in a plastic box in the middle of a grid of other plastic boxes in comparison to the costs to own, maintain and changeover is a real outlier. Seemingly adding more chintz and more gawdy decoration that every bricks and mortar house in the UK has been trying to remove, the better. It might be your idea of hell for a holiday but financially owning one makes sense. Nowt as queer as folks.
Same - it was the first season we ran ours (my mother had run it previously) and there were some colossal arseholes holidaying in the UK that year. People used to all inclusive abroad who just didn't know how to behave. Thankfully they are back trashing Magaluf instead.
I could have written that word for word.
Just a bit of an aside regarding holiday units...
Mrs S and I rented a wee cabin on the island of Grimsay for a week this summer. It was bigger than a pod, with better facilities, still only had a double bed and was in a great location. Being able to cook for ourselves reduced the overall cost of the holiday so the additional expense of the cabin over a camping pod was balancing out more than you'd maybe expect.
It immediately had me looking for similar sized units elsewhere.
Also - in Badenoch and Strathspey, all kids in Aviemore and south go to Kingussie High School, further north they go to Grantown. I'd say the latter has a slight better reputation.
It might be your idea of hell for a holiday but financially owning one makes sense.
Until you come to sell it...
Or rent it for that matter, this has been in the news a lot recently where the holiday park has its own rental units and contractually reserves the right to manage all guests to the park. They divert rental bookings to their own units and private owners hardly get a look in.
Just bear in mind the area you are now mentioning is the only control area in the highlands, ward 20 Badenoch and Strathspey. As I mentioned earlier this is seen as the problem area by Highland council so by making it a control area they can limit the amount of holiday lets. Not an issue for an existing business but a new one may be refused if they think there is an oversupply. I have no idea what the magic number of holiday lets they have dreamt up is but if it’s a 1000 and they already have a thousand you may have a long wait for planning permission and they won’t give you a license without it. Worth doing some research before committing financially.
The control zone is there to limit the number of houses and flats being taken out of full-time occupation. It's not designed to restrict the supply of pod/cabin type accommodation.
Yes it was meant to control the number of flats and homes being taken out of full time occupation but it also looks at the character of the area and impact on neighbouring properties as with other planning applications. It is basically an extra control the council can use to manage the numbers. They can just decide we don’t need any more of these and deny permission.
It's worth looking on air BnB for the areas you are looking at to see what sort of accomodation is available and what they are charging. Just as a sniff test to get a feel.
he is handsome, fit as a fiddle, has taken up salsa dancing, learned to snow board
I never did like him
Worth noting that some areas property isn't on Rightmove by default. Deeside seems to be domintaed by ASPC. Anybody know other areas where rightmove isn't the go to option?
I moved to Scotland a year ago. So far it's been great.
Check rain forecasts and especially midge forecasts before you move anywhere. Some places we contemplated had one or the other on every single day.
It might be your idea of hell for a holiday but financially owning one makes sense.Until you come to sell it...
Correct. We were at Nairn in a cottage. The East Beach caravan site was advertising caravans from £40k. Which need to be sold for a pittance in 12 or 25 years or taken away.
It's worth looking on air BnB for the areas you are looking at to see what sort of accomodation is available and what they are charging. Just as a sniff test to get a feel.
There is a slight issue with this as well established properties that aren't charging top dollar are booked up in advance (sometimes years) and don't rely on mainstream booking sites with the associated high fees.
Often the ones left advertising are the most expensive and may not be achieving very good occupancy.
The East Beach caravan site was advertising caravans from £40k. Which need to be sold for a pittance in 12 or 25 years or taken away.
This is a (first world) problem when I've looked into this in the past. The idea of a place to regularly spend time at is great, but these caravan sites sometimes cost £6-8k a year just in fees nevermind the depreciation and living in close proximity to others. But if you look at freehold properties and put that money towards a deposit/maintenance then you're taking away housing from locals which doesn't sit well at all. We used to have But'n'Ben's in Scotland and Scandinavian countries have similar. I know we have hutting communities, but it's not the same. Anyway, sorry for the thread diversion.
I came back with the thought - why go for the holiday rentals? There is desperate need for long-term residential rentals in many of these areas. While I know (from personal experience) that margins are less, it is considerably less work. It also provides homes locally, and rents are rising. Invest the money in a couple of properties - one for you and one (or more) for rental market?
I say all this as someone who was glad to get out of being a landlord. But every circumstance is different.
I don’t think the economics work buying a property to rent out unless you want to put away a nest egg long term. Say a 300,000 investment in a house which rents out at 1000 a month. You could get £1000 interest a month putting that capital in a high interest notice account. Obviously the house purchase should increase in value over the long term but in the shorter term the return is poor. I suppose it also depends on your age.
I have worked in three Stirling schools including Dunblane High School - all excellent. Elsewhere I have seen quite a variation.
It might be your idea of hell for a holiday but financially owning one makes sense.Until you come to sell it...
Correct. We were at Nairn in a cottage. The East Beach caravan site was advertising caravans from £40k. Which need to be sold for a pittance in 12 or 25 years or taken away.
Yep notorious around here in Dumfries & Galloway that static caravans difficult to sell due to contractual obligation to sell through the exploitative site owner. Usually sold after huge delays for a fraction of the cost.
Like most of the Highlands and Islands, there’s an acute shortage of long-term rental accommodation here - long term rentals are typically £800-1000/month whereas you can easily charge that per week from April to October. Talking to someone today who has a few long term rentals - one property he made zero profit with the last tenant because of all the refurbishment work needed when they left. I can see the appeal of a couple of pods in a field, but unless you’re buying an existing business, the likelihood of simply finding something suitable could be tricky unless it’s somewhere quite remote. I also know a few folks who rent out their main property as a holiday let in the summer and live in a caravan nearby.
Check rain forecasts and especially midge forecasts before you move anywhere. Some places we contemplated had one or the other on every single day.
Bloody amateurs the really good places have both of them all the time.
I moved to Scotland a year ago. So far it's been great.
Check rain forecasts and especially midge forecasts before you move anywhere. Some places we contemplated had one or the other on every single day.
This site is pretty good to compare where you are currently, with where you might want to be.
https://weatherspark.com/compare
Like most of the Highlands and Islands, there’s an acute shortage of long-term rental accommodation here - long term rentals are typically £800-1000/month whereas you can easily charge that per week from April to October.
So long term rental is £10-12K per annum with minimum work, and few outgoings (perhaps £1k pa for compliance stuff and insurance?) v's short term rental where 100% occupancy April-October would be unusual, so possibly double the annual income but with much more work and cost (airbnb platform fees - varies how you set it up but 15% off what the holidaymaker pays is not unusual; changeover costs suggested at £100 per time).
Talking to someone today who has a few long term rentals - one property he made zero profit with the last tenant because of all the refurbishment work needed when they left.
There are obviously risks, but carefully selecting your tenants, living close by to keep an eye on things and ensuring basic maintenance gets done should mitigate those risks somewhat. Of course short term rentals aren't immune to those risks either.
I don’t think the economics work buying a property to rent out unless you want to put away a nest egg long term. Say a 300,000 investment in a house which rents out at 1000 a month.
Yes I think if you are paying £300K for an extra property its probably not a great deal BUT if the property you are planning to buy has (or can be affordably converted to have) an annex which was only of the possibilities the OP asked about it MIGHT be viable.
Indeed my thought on long-term rentals was based on a flat in Aberfeldy worth £115k with £650 a month income. I could have upped this income another £200 a month or so as it has had HMO license, but we decided to not do that. FWIW, I would not have grown rich from it*. However, every time the tenancy came up there was a queue of people looking and absolutely no-one quibbled the rent.
Eldest_oab left his job at Glenmore Lodge as he could not find suitable accommodation in 6 months of looking. Most rooms within shared houses went within the day and by word of mouth - and were all £300+bills or more a month in a house for 3.
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*we had one arsehole of a tenant that ended up in court and sheriff helping evict them, that knocked out 8 months of income and £4k of costs....avoid this and you are good.
I wouldn’t base my numbers on getting 100% occupancy on a holiday let. The one across the road from us is often empty especially during the quiet months like November. Pods may be more popular though especially in the warmer months.
Thinking about it there’s another holiday let just across from us which seems to only get guests occasionally. In fact I’m quite surprised to see folk there even in the summer. I think they had some bad reviews in the past though which doesn’t help.