Just wondering how prevalent these are.
I was in hospital a few years ago with suspected pneumonia. They put me on IV Amoxycillin straight away despite the fact that I am allergic to the 'cillins family of antibiotics. My allergy was stamped in red all over my file but hey ho. It didn't make me seriously ill but I had a nasty all over rash and terrible headaches. Just what you need when you're already feeling like shite.
It wasn't pneumonia either - it was a pulmonary vasculitis that was treated with steroids.
My dad had a minor stroke a 3 months ago. He was supposed to get a follow up a month later. Nothing happened so he rang them up to see what was occurring. They thought he was still in hospital despite being discharged 6 weeks previous.
Other than that tho they do amazing work given the pressure the system is under through cost cutting and mismanagement.
My dad was in hospital with pneumonia almost a year ago to the day. After several days of showing good improvement he died in his sleep a year ago on Saturday morning. I remain convinced it was the hospital at fault for not having him observed closely enough and I simply think his oxygen mask fell off in his sleep and they found him like that on their morning rounds (they had taken him off the heartbeat monitor the day before).
Physio didn't help my mum's bowel cancer much.
or alternatively you could all go private and save us your sob stories about a service that excels at what it does.
obviously it has its flaws and stories of failures will always make the news, but given the option of paying relativvely little for un-questioning health care or relatively lots for private health care (as seen in the U.S., Germany, Austria and many other 'civilised' countries) then i'd choose the first option.
as a self employed carpenter i was paying ~£20/month in N.I. contributions. here in Germany i [i]should[/i] be paying ~280€ for private health care.
Think of the NHS like your local bike shop,they usually do a good job,sometimes they screw up,but with a bike shop,you go online and condem them for their fault,where as the NHS, you just accept they say theyre over worked and everything is ok,bike shops dont usually make life threatening faults though.
If you think they have made a mistake, and what company doesnt, then COMPLAIN,
A couple of family members have been waiting for ages for specialist referrals, and we've seen a surprising level of incompetence among some of the so-called specialists - particularly the ones who administrate their own workload.
Actually my wife used to work for the RCP, so it's not surprising at all, but it is disturbing.
And when my wife was admitted to hospital with potentially lethal pregnancy complications that sent her into labour two months early we were faced with nurses who counldn't add-up and didn't know how the machinery worked.
And there was the doctor who didn't believe my wife that she was in labour because the beeps weren't regular enough - until I made them look and they found she was 10cm dilated.
Oh yes, and there was the nurse who openly slagged the patients off when she thought they were out of earshot.
I still believe in the NHS, and I've had as many good experiences, but I can see why people get frustrated.
No, but they were very good when my bollocks didn't drop. 🙂
or alternatively you could all go private and save us your sob stories about a service that excels at what it does.
People should be satisfied that their condition was misdiagnosed or that their treatment delayed or even withheld based on postcode?
Yeah, we don't have a right to be unhappy or complain or have sob stories.
an extreme case
[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/8439007.stm [/url]
Going private doesn't guarantee the correct treatment - it just means you get the same mistakes (and often the same doctors), just quicker...
Very true - especially as most our lovely NHS hospitals have private wards and the same NHS doctors treat the patients. But they get flowers in their rooms and aren't told to u**** off home at the earliest opportunity.
alpin - Member
"or alternatively you could all go private and save us your sob stories about a service that excels at what it does".
A tad harsh on those with good reason not to be happy. Just because some countries don't supply healthcare in the same way as this country does not mean that you can't complain when it goes wrong.
Without going into detail I would hardly call my recent personal experiance "excels at what it does". But then being miss diagnosed on a cancer related illness, having your partner given MRSA and three botched operations is just a sob storey to you.
Like any organisation the NHS makes mistakes, just because it's one of the things that makes living in the UK better does not shield it from complaints. When it does things wrong, and it does get things very wrong at times it should sort it out. A sorry for starters would have been very helpful to me.
What TN said. A bupa hospital almost killed my old man with a "small" mistake. An NHS hospital DID kill my grandfather with an equally "small" mistake. Like they say, only two things in life are certain, death and taxes so don't think that paying more means you can't be hurt or killed by idiocy or mistakes.
get flowers in their rooms and aren't told to u**** off home at the earliest opportunity.
A reasonable wine list the last time the wife was in too 🙂
I would like to think that was a joke but I know it isn't...
I would like to think that was a joke but I know it isn't...
No, not a joke
The last time I checked (it was a while ago) the minimum staffing standards in private hospitals were lower than in NHS ones.
ie. junior doctors could be left in charge for long stretches, the specialists just came in, did the operations and buggered off again.
The last time I checked (it was a while ago) the minimum staffing standards in private hospitals were lower than in NHS ones.
But at least you can see a consultant at a time to suit you and within a decent timescale.
I've dealt with the NHS & private quite a bit over the last 40 years or so
I was a frequent visitor to NHS hospitals as a teenager in the 70s & again with my parents as their lives came to an end
More recently I've been witness to my wife's treatment in both private & NHS hospitals
I can honestly say I've never come across anything that I felt warranted complaint - maybe it's an expectation thing?
To the original poster - yes - I played the postcode lottery ......
About 5 years back, I came off my bike, twisted my ankle through 180 degrees and shoved it toward my knee - only holding my foot on was skin and Boris (thanks again mate).
Couple of weeks in hospital saw me leave with a nice frame to hold my foot on.
Three days later, was back in hospital with (what was diagnosed 3 days later) multiple clots to the lungs, so spent 1 week in Intensive Care and the missus was warned to have the insurance papers ready.
In ICU, they like to monitor heart rate from a different source (the pipe flowing from the heart and not the one on the way back). This involves lots of aneasthetic pin pricks all around the area before they put the pipe in to monitor the blood flow direct. Because I was in there with multiple blood clots, they had me on some really hefty blood thining drugs, so all these pin pricks caused excessive bruising and by the morning, my arm was the size of an elephants leg and I couldn't feel or move my fingers (which were elevated).
When the chief man saw what had happened, he instantly called for help as they thought I would have to have the arm opened in sections - they peel back the muscles in sections to relieve the pressure...... As it turns out, they were able to stabilise and reduce the pressure with massage etc - that caused all the blood to collect in bags under my armpit. To this day, I still have bags under the right armpit - they match my eyes, so I don't worry!
I don't complain, as they kept me alive and shipped me out after a further few weeks.
So why was this a postcode lottery?
If I had been in a different NHS trust, I would have been put on Wharfarin (blood thinning - rat poison) because of the extent of the initial injury and it would have been highly unlikely I would've developed clots on the lungs and had my life threatened from falling off the bike!
No complaints (other than the night Doctor who decided to use me as a pin cushion) and the NHS have been superb with me and my family.
Cheers,
The NHS is a ****ing huge organisation, even a couple of thousand **** ups per year is tiny as a percentage.
Cough bottle didn't really help my dad's lung cancer much though.
Mother inlaw went private for a bowel cancer op - she had to wait longer to get it done than she would have done on the NHS.
Re the cost of private health care, then when I worked in New York my health insurance cost close on 12k USD per annum IIRC. That was close on 10 years ago for a single bloke with no pre-existing medical conditions (at the time).
I was somewhat shocked to say the least!.
I would have to admit the Docs on the few occasions I called on their services were very thorough - but literally everything was charged for (as you can understand given the business model) and came fully itemized on your bill like an accountant's "activity based costing" wet dream. Right down to how many vials of blood they took.
I have had both excellent and not so excellent care under the NHS. Like all walks of life there are people who excel at what they do, those who do OK and those who underperform
Not as such. My step dad died from Marphans, it wasn't diagnosed or picked up at the autopsy he was only 34.
Years later his daughter nearly died from the efects of Marphans after having a child. She had to have the Aeorta replaced from just below her heart to her ankle. Then every blood relative had to be checked.
When her aeorta ruptured her GP just said it was back pain, she went back a few days later and luckily there was a locum? stand in?? he picked up something straight away. An ambulance took her from her GPs in Watford to a hospital in Birmingham she had the op about two months later
Lucky :|girl
as a self employed carpenter i was paying ~£20/month in N.I. contributions.
Self employed AND paying NI contributions? That'll be a first!
junior doctors could be left in charge for long stretches, the specialists just came in, did the operations and buggered off again.
That is pretty common in NHS hospitals too.
But "Junior Doctor" doesn't mean someone spotty faced teenager fresh from Uni, as many people seem to think it does.
MrsGrahamS is a [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_registrar ]Specialist Registrar[/url] in her mid-30s, but she's still a "[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_doctor ]Junior Doctor[/url]".
Ive got an app at the end of the month for a flexible cystoscopy (fibre optic camera up your one eyed trouser snake)not looking foward to it one bit.Last time it took a nurse on each arm to hold me down and pishing blood for days!Supposed to be mildly discomforting.... 😡
Going private doesn't guarantee the correct treatment - it just means you get the same mistakes (and often the same doctors), just quicker...
I'm wondering whether pre-surgery etc in private care if you have to sign a declaration/disclaimer? It'd stop alot of complaints wouldnt it?...
Plus- Im sure alot of ailments are seen by the NHS first anyway.
Physio didn't help my mum's bowel cancer much.
Similar story here (well, maybe): When my mum had a hysterectomy to deal with cancer of the ovaries they completely missed a secondary tumour in her bowel and fannied about calling it IBS for two months, by which time it was terminal.
[url= http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-16924992-blunders-by-doctors-killed-runner.do ]Much Loved Nephew : RIP[/url]
In answer to OP; Yep quite literally. Whilst I would happily string up the individual responsible, it does not lessen the overall benefit that having the NHS gives us. So count yourself lucky, highlight the error in the hope that it will assist in preventing a reoccurance and move on.
On the one hand, my coeliac disease was terribly mishandled (I was put on a trial, as I was asymptomatic, to see what happens if they don't treat it- but proper records weren't kept and when the trial ended- after finding out that you get bone density loss and increased lymphoma risk- nobody told me, and I carried on for another decade getting sicker and sicker until my osteoperosis got so bad that I broke both my hands and my hip. Even then, it wasn't picked up til I was at a clinic for a completely unconnected condition.
And though it's being treated now, and well, in the meantime it caused me to be basically crippled for 2 years, left me with a leg injury that'll never fully recover, and with permanent osteoperosis, and a badly increased risk of cancer in later life, plus a long period of post-injury depression, and loss of earnings. So, not as bad as it can be, but pretty ****ing bad. I've considered suing them, never quite sure whether I should or not... But I've never been an ambulance chaser.
But on the other hand, the surgery to repair my hip was absolutely state of the art, and worked incredibly well- I wouldn't have got it on BUPA, or for that matter on most american health insurance. The physio post op was absolutely first class- these 2 are the only reason I can run for a bus never mind ride a bike. The treatment I've had for my diabetes has been absolutely beyond criticism for the last 23 years, and when I think of the amount of medication I've had on free prescription... In the american model, I'd be uninsurable.
So... Bit of both. I've had some of the best medical treatment in the world, consistently, for most of my life. And I've had one very bad incident. I don't exactly trust them- I keep one eye on them now- but I'll stand by them.
Oh, and if anyone ever meets me on a ride and wonders why I wear so much body armour, that's why 😉
I'm putting my faith in the NHS at the moment. Due a second lot of neurosurgery, followed by chemo & radiotherapy.
I was diagnosed with a brain tumour last June. I fitted on the 2nd June, was diagnosed on the same day, transferred on the same day to the local neuro unit, fully investigated, and operated on on 9th June. Home after 48 hours.
The fact the tumour has recurred is not a problem with the surgeons original operation, just the infiltrating nature of a glioma tumour.
Only slip up was when a GP diagnosed me with sinusitis when I presented with a 4 week history of tiredness, couple of waking headaches and just generally feeling like shite. But then I was expecting to be told "viral, go home", so I am as much to blame for not re-attending when symptoms didn't improve after a couple of weeks of nasal spray.
My sister was sterilized - three times!!!! She took them to court and won.
Bust ankle while riding. Wlked / dragged myself out of the woods and got to the hospital. A&E Triage nurse told me that if I could walk it wasn't broken and gave me exercises to do.
Went back 3 days later to borrow crutches as it was too painful to walk on.
Nurse took one look at the at the ankle and bollocked me for not getting it treated. I explained what happened, she went very quiet and I was taken in for observation and treatment.
A nurse slipped into my cubicle and gave me a photocopy of my original triage notes 'in case I wanted them for later'. I am now lame and my ankle continues to deteriorate.
Never did sue the NHS though. Guess I am too middle class.
Mine pails into insignificance after some of the others tales.
I broke my tibia and fibula and had them pinned and plated. A couple of months after the op I go back for another x-ray and see the specialist. They asked if I was told what happened in the op? No they didn't, so they explained that as they were drilling my leg the jig slipped causing the drill bit to snap off in my leg! The specialist then pointed out the bit in my x-ray! Which he then let me have. The bit is never going to come out of the middle of my bone and I can walk ok, so no biggie.
The father inlaw died due to an oversight by a hospital, which then altered it's practises, when the wife had an accident an developed the same problem, the treatment was spot on, even if some of the medical staff were shocking.
With the father inlaw we looked in to legal action, but the costs were prohibitive.
With the wife we were asked by several members of hospital staff to make a complaint about a nurse, but I settled for a quiet word in his ear, and the wife said his quality of care improved hugely.
Don't want to go in to too much detail as I know some fellow forum dwellers work for the nhs trust that it concerns.
I have seen a few fups over the years and have read a few coroners reports and stuff as well. One thing that I am absolutely convinced of is that there should be a "no fault" investigation into mishaps like the airline industry does.
Its proven time and time again that what people want is for the mistake to not happen again and for someone to explain and say sorry. Most F ups are a series of small mistakes not one persons catastrophic mistake and because of the current system of investigating errors where people tend to get blamed then often vital data gets hidden making it less likely that you will be able to prevent the mistakes in future.
Preventing mistakes should be a high priority not looking to lay blame.
For example - a recent court case involving a preventable death in my Health Board. more than half a dozen people from the operating consultant to a junior staff nurse made mistakes. Some of this was down to a lack of training and experience some a result of working under pressure some as a result of administrative failings.
If you have been left with a permanent deficit than I think it is fair enough to go for compensation.
Mines very very minor in comparison to the above tales, but I wasted over 6 months waiting for a physio appointment as I could not walk far or cycle at all. After all that wait, I was told by a chap whose English was so poor we could hardly understand each other (I have a broad regional accent which does not help) that he could not find what was wrong in the 10 min exam he gave me and to come back when I was in greater pain.
Was forced to fork out for a private physio and he found the problem in 20 mins and it was fixed within a month. Felt really angry at all the wasted time and lack of interest/communication in the NHS, plus having to pay, when I could have done that in the first place and had 6 months of better life back. Still, compared to some I am very very lucky.
TJ typed,
Its proven time and time again that what people want is for the mistake to not happen again and for someone to explain and say sorry. Most F*** ups are a series of small mistakes not one persons catastrophic mistake and because of the current system of investigating errors where people tend to get blamed then often vital data gets hidden making it less likely that you will be able to prevent the mistakes in future.
Strange if its a builder who makes a mistake theyre called a cowboy,and usually an apology is not enough for the customer, they want a cash refund and compensation.
TJ hit the nail on the head, important data get's hidden, and even if you manage to lay your hands on relevant information, it counts for very little unless it's acquired via proper channels.
With the father inlaw we had confidential internal memo's but as they didn't specifically name the father inlaw and they weren't get through a proper channel, the legal people wouldn't use them in court.
Project - its not very comparable.
Strangely that is what the research suggests that peoplke who are on the wrong end of accidents want an explanation and an apology. Our current system means they don't get that as its an admission of liability.
"No fault" mishap investigation is a useful way of doing things. You get much better disclosure of what has happened so it is easier to find ways of preventing future accidents, the victim gets their explanation and apology quickly. compensation can still be given and incompetent staff sacked - but most of these are as I said a series of mistakes that lead to the mistake that afects someone.
40 post glitch
Strange if its a builder who makes a mistake theyre called a cowboy,and usually an apology is not enough for the customer
if you want a doctor that has never, ever made a mistake then you won't find one outside of TV dramas I'm afraid.
They are only human.
It's better to accept that mistakes [u]will[/u] happen and to put in required checks etc to try to catch them before they impact patients. I think TJ is right that this is better achieved by open investigation of the mistake, rather than defensively pretending it didn't happen to avoid being sued.
When my dad had his liver chopped out for cancer treatment(the person to have most liver removed and still survive ever!) there was a nice big surgical tube left in there for a while. He just thought if someone's saved your life it's not very nice to sue them for something you'd never noticed.
Never did sue the NHS though. Guess I am too middle class.
In my experience (covering medical mishaps for the press) it was always the middle class patients who made the biggest fuss.
Did you not think that in your case the nurse concerned might be a danger to others? And perhaps that's why you were given the notes by a concerned colleague?
Hope the leg improves anyway mate.
I'm with TJ on this one. A great deal of what is left afterward is simply "why?" and how can I make my loss less pointless? So a thorough investigation is obviously important, and an open aspect to it so that there is no feeling of cover up would go a long way to dealing with those issues.
Further to that, a great deal of the problems with the NHS relate to a) the fact that to bring it about in the first place Doctors/Consultants were given a disproportionately large say in how it is run, (the logic for my statement being on a similar basis that just because someone is a good player for example, it does not follow that they will make a good manager in footballing terms). b) The NHS is used as a political football.
Ultimately, its a lot like gritting the roads. Want more grit? Pay more tax!
Personally, having had more of my fair share of the NHS in recent years, I have only ever come across one individual whose competence would worry me. Every other time I have been more than impressed with the committment and application of everyone I've ever had dealings with. The failings all seem to me to emanate from the management structure, and it is importnat to note that is [b]NOT[/b] aimed at hospital administrators in any way at all.