[Closed] Anyone for another religion thread?

What if "God" was in fact created by mankind?

That's the plot of American Gods, book by Neil Gaiman and currently serialised on Netflix.

Probably a load of tosh, but is a theory that would, to some extent, reconcile science vs faith. I think.

Nah not really - the idea is that God is all powerful and created man, and that kind of overturns that.

However it does raise the question of what does 'real' mean - God clearly exists as an intellectual construct, so does that mean it's real?

If a close friend or family member told you that they had taken to worshipping the old gods, say the Greek or Norse pantheon. How would you react and would it, in your mind, differ from how you view somebody who follows one of the three larger modern faiths? If so, why, how is it different?

For those of you that are religious, do you actually worship your chosen god or just try to live by the tenants of your faith as you see them? Genuine questions, no secret trolling or setup for a joke. Just curious.

you clearly don't - I was agreeing with your statement

It's already ten past Pascal's Wager? (Looks at watch)

Play nice, I'm going for a night ride, may try and convince self not to deny any deity, so then shall have at least a chance in all or one of their [s]escape eternal punishment parties[/s] Reward Residences once this old coil slips off. May have to brush up on a few, there's thousands of the buggers if not more...

just try to live by the tenants of your faith

Like a religious community? Or nosey neighbours keeping you on-track?

@ johnx2

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, unknown unknowns and all that.

This thread has got me wondering that if there is a God what has religion necessarily got to do with it? Having been bought up in a religious environment the first thing that puzzled me was the idea that there was supposedly one god though many different religions / arguments as to the attributes of that god. What if God created the universe out of boredom and was indifferent to and required no adherence or observance from humans? instead seeing humans as being no different from other animals or things? If there is a god he/she must be quite amused by our over complication of things. Maybe we are here merely for gods entertainment. Why do we suppose that god requires anything of us at all?

Like a religious community? Or nosey neighbours keeping you on-track?

Damn you auto-correct 🙂

Pascals' wager asserts that If you believe in God but he/she turns out not to exist you have lost nothing, If you deny the possible existence of God but there turns out to be a God you stand to lose out on the promise of an afterlife / paradise.

Whereas Cougar's Wager takes into account that there are thousands of gods being worshipped or otherwise believed in today, and millions which have fallen out of favour. If you deny the possible existence of god but there turns out to be a one then you might miss out on some reward or other, but if you believe in a god and it turned out to be the wrong one (and statistically you're highly likely to be wrong), then the real god(s) will be pretty pissed. Worshipping false gods is usually considered a pretty hefty Thou Shalt Not in a number of major religions, is it not?

Ergo, it's safer not to play than to be involved with the losing side.

Also of course,

If you merely "believe" in a god then you've lost nothing. If you spend half your life praising and all that malarkey in order to secure your place at the high table only to find that there's no god, man, what a monumental waste of time and effort.

Not sure how many people would proclaim to be of faith on the off chance they might have backed a winning horse.

If you deny the possible existence of god but there turns out to be a one then you might miss out on some reward or other,

If it was the Christian god you could just repent at the gates to st Peter and get in

Not sure how many people would proclaim to be of faith on the off chance they might have backed a winning horse.

I'm not sure how many would believe in god "just in case" either, but that was the starting point of this little segue.

Did we both just say exactly the same thing?

Out of interest what's the proof of esp being offered by charlesmungus ?

Did we both just say exactly the same thing?

Potentially. I may have misinterpreted your meaning.

Whereas Cougar's Wager takes into account that there are thousands of gods being worshipped or otherwise believed in today, and millions which have fallen out of favour.

Well the common answer to the many gods question is that they are all aspects of the same thing.

Thread = TLDR. Anyone care to summarise ?

TL;DR

Your'e all idiots.

Ah right fair enough.

Thread = TLDR. Anyone care to summarise ?

[code]
10 PRINT "Atheists don't understand Theists"
20 PRINT "God isn't real"
30 PRINT "Yes it is"
40 GOTO 20
[/code]

Well the common answer to the many gods question is that they are all aspects of the same thing.

So... we're all wrong?

the common answer to the many gods question is that they are all aspects of the same thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_have_no_other_gods_before_me

Lets you know how much of the Bible is about this choice as well

Not sure how he you are accommodating pantheist religions into this as they have multiple gods who are all part of the same face of the one true god they dont worship what with them being pantheists etc.

WHilst we may see the abrahamic faiths as the same they dont and I am not sure how you are fitting Taoism into this or Buddhism or the Greek gods etc

Flesh this out for me i suspect you have given it lots of thought 😉

Your'e all idiots.

Jimjam, you may find the quality of the grammar matches the quality of the debate (sic)

😉

No different from any other STW religious "debate"

Potentially. I may have misinterpreted your meaning

No different from any other STW religious "debate"

Bugger off.

😉

So you think we lost hair everywhere else, but for some reason it stopped just around the eyes?

there are pretty simple reasons why you'd keep an arch of trapping hair above the most important sense that humans have. Rain, sweat, dirt, not to mention; expressions and non verbal communication. Ever seen a great ape with white sclera btw? massively expressive and human like

Mind you, there are plenty of theories about why out of all the primates, our ancestors lost most of the hair on their bodies.

Anyway, carry on...

That happens to me. A LOT.

Text-based communication is prone to that, but in this case it wasn't you, it was simple reading failure on my part.

believers of the individual religions would say otherwise

Not all of them. I cite that answer because it's the one I've heard given by many actual believers.

I don't know why you keep talking about all religious people as if they are of one mind.

Not sure how he you are accommodating pantheist religions into this as they have multiple gods who are all part of the same face of the one true god they dont worship what with them being pantheists etc.

Brahman?

I haven't given it much thought - it is not of personal importance to me. I am simply repeating what I have been told by others to whom it is of more importance.

CFH 😀

The big bang theory only explains what happened after it was created. It does NOT explain how it came about.

BBT is an explanation of observations.

There are several theories for what was happening pre-BB: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Speculative_physics_beyond_the_Big_Bang_theory

I don't know why you keep talking about all religious people as if they are of one mind.

We are at top Molly now 😆

For the love of God, how much longer is this thread going on ???

I genuinely laughed at that you told me what they all thought i spoke of individual religions and what you thought.

I bloody well did not say anything of the sort! You seem to struggle to understand the finer detail of my posts. It's as if you need to slow down or something.

I repeated the 'common answer'. That is, the one that I have heard most often when I've asked that question.
That is very clearly NOT THE SAME THING as saying all religious people think that.

You on the other hand said this:

and believers of the individual religions would say otherwise

Which to me looks like you are making a big generalisation about the opinions of believers.

For the love of God, how much longer is this thread going on ???

1. Are you new here?
2. Opening the thread is not compulsory;
3. Which god, and can you prove she exists?

You're right. No point in nitpicking with Junkyard.

Sorry.

the ten commandments and believers of the individual religions would say otherwise ....your knowledge lets you down a little on these debates [ well meaning though you are]

Which to me looks like you are making a big generalisation about the opinions of believers.

As i said your knowledge lets you down.

it would be nicer if you tried to negate this with facts rather than whatever this is. They dont all think its just one god IME that is something agnostics say or something atheists ponder the faithful know its theirs that is true.

You really want to argue this?

No. It'll be a waste of time.

As i said your knowledge lets you down.

I'll just point out though that I did know what the OT says about worshipping other gods. I think your extremely inflexible brain lets you down.

it would be nicer if you tried to negate this with facts rather than whatever this is.

I was trying. But you don't debate very well so I'm out.

They dont all think its just one god IME that is something agnostics say or something atheists ponder the faithful know its theirs that is true.

I know at least one Christian who says all religions are different ways of trying to explain the same thing. (And Christians, Jews and Muslims definitely worship the same god.)

I know at least one Christian who says all religions are different ways of trying to explain the same thing

Finally

One of the reasons why reading different religious materials is so rewarding. Such a pity when people restrict themselves to one version

@SaxonRider Steve Chalke was one of the main preachers, but we were taken the by the youth group of a Church of England congregation; it was at the height of the Toronto Blessing - lots of talking in tongues and falling over.

1. Are you new here?
2. Opening the thread is not compulsory;
3. Which god, and can you prove she exists?

4. I see what you did there.

I think your extremely inflexible brain lets you down.

What was that about passive-aggressive insults, again?

I know at least one Christian who says all religions are different ways of trying to explain the same thing

If for the sake of debate we overlook the bits about power and crowd control, that's a truism. All* religions seek to explain things that we can't explain via conventional means. Eg, "what happens after we die?" or "where did the universe come from?" That's a long chalk from positing that all gods are essentially the same thing though.

If you dropped a few Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Chinese Traditionals and Scientologists into a room and went "you all worship the same god" I don't fancy your chances of making it to the door.

(* - ok, probably not all, but for practical purposes in this discussion)

What was that about passive-aggressive insults, again?

That's a direct criticism. Although it's not an insult, I'm just "making an observation".

(That last bit is passive-aggressive though 🙂 )

I thought that there was originally 15 commandments ??

That's a direct criticism. Although it's not an insult, I'm just "making an observation".

I think I need the Cliff Notes for this discussion.

It's ok to question someone's brain if their brain is actually questionable, is that the logic here?

I think your extremely inflexible brain lets you down.

Its not inflexible to know what they say about other gods its just the facts.

It's ok to question someone's brain if their brain is actually questionable, is that the logic here?

That was a sarcastic reference to the protestations earlier in the thread where people were being insulting and then claiming to only be stating facts as if that made it ok. It was intended as a joke.

However I'm still not arguing with him because it's still futile. I'd rather argue with TJ to be honest 🙂

Text-based communication fail again, gotcha.

I'm glad I deleted the second half of my reply. (-:

I'd rather argue with TJ to be honest

no you wouldn't! 😉

That's not an argument, it's just contradiction.

Yes it is

No it isn't.

Wait...

Has anyone been to Srinigar? That's where Jesus's tomb is. After the staged crucifixion and the 3 day recovery he went back to his bhuddist home in India and lived with into his eighties, dying with his children around him.

would this be a good time to suggest that religion has more to do with politics than god / the afterlife?

A good point.

Since Constantine (probably, I'm no historian) until I dunno, the modern era some time, I'd agree with that. I think a lot of people were just as cynical and sceptical as they are now, but Christianity was such a huge part of life that they couldn't avoid it. I'm not sure if the merging of religion and politics two was done deliberately or simply extrapolated - after all, if God is the ultimate authority, then His representatives and those who know Him best would hold the most power, wouldn't they?

I'm sure it was both at various times. Look at the political fallout from Luther's theological thesis.

TurnerGuy - Member
I thought that there was originally 15 commandments ??

10 directly heard from god.

Jews have 613

Would any of these Gods still exist if Humans didn't?

May be not, but this thread would....

tjagain - Member
I'd rather argue with TJ to be honest
no you wouldn't!

I find it strange that you don't believe in heaven TJ. After all, you've been into orbit so many times during your years on STW (if historical tags are to be believed), I assume you've been close enough to see it with your own eyes a number of times. 😀 😉

If you spend half your life praising and all that malarkey in order to secure your place at the high table only to find that there's no god, man, what a monumental waste of time and effort.

Not if..... Heaven is a place on earth.

Mmmmm.... Belinda

[img] [/img]

Thinking about this thread has made me realise I miss a bit of church action on a sunday morning, when I've been helping out at my lad's U7 rugby training instead. It's brilliant fun but, now I realise, left a bit of a whole... will have to looking into a mid-week service.

10 directly heard from god.

Jews have 613

No the commandments are the same as you’d expect as the Old Testament is the foundtion of borth Judaism and Christianity. The 613 are laws. Quite different.

Earlier it was posted that religions in [b]general[/b] tried to convince others of their beliefs. This is not true, not all religions are evangelical - ie try to convert others

poah - Member

TurnerGuy - Member
I thought that there was originally 15 commandments ??

10 directly heard from god.

Jews have 613

weren't the 15 cast into 3 tablets, and then one of them got dropped, so only 10 commandments remain ?

Ok last night courtesy of this sanity-toppling thread- I didst go riding and (somewhere near Barnard's Green) I didst declare that I now do not deny all of the gods, goddesses,Gods, Goddesses, demigods and any possible permutations thereof. Then I had a bag of chips. Even agnostic atheism needs sustenance.

Hallelujah and big up Pascal coz I shall now live me forever. PS I hope there are chips and beer in Valhalla/Nirvana/Heaven/Avalon/Moksha/Brahm?loka/Rafi' etc (the sagga), (????)/Qaydum (?????)/Marum (???????)/Arfalun (???????)/Hay'oun (??????)/Arous (????)/Ajma' (?????), Sach Khand...etc. (They go on a bit but just ase take it as read)

*Edit: I do now feel a little uncomfortable tho to be honest. What if one of those deities can read my mind and figure that I might be paying lip service/not truly really totally utterly believing in them? Do you think they can do that stuff? Now feel like I'm being watched all of the time. And I found a shiny five piece pence by the railway ridge in Clarence Rd and put it in my pocket. Thinking it that may be good luck. Yet now I am open to the possibility that those deities are watching, and I'm not the rightful owner of these monies. So I probably need to study some more. Should I give the fivepence to charity? But what about secular charities? Should I try to find the rightful owner or put it back where I found it? Will I be judged poorly for such an action? Is there a religion that says 'Ah, just do yr best it'll all work out, see you in paradise?'. Or do some Gods cancel out others? Or are some made up? In fact is it risky to believe in more than one? Or are All One and One is All Argh...overthinking again...

What if one of those deities can read my mind and figure that I might be paying lip service/not truly really totally utterly believing in them?

I didst declare that I now do not deny all of the gods, goddesses,Gods, Goddesses, demigods and any possible permutations thereof.

Does that count as a conversion? Road to Barnard's Green?

No the commandments are the same as you’d expect as the Old Testament is the foundtion of borth Judaism and Christianity. The 613 are laws. Quite different.

yes, the jews refer to them as Mitzvo which means commandment.

*five pence piece.

(Sigh)

Don't feel myself today. I feel some change. In fact I may never feel my self again. Now that I'm open to the possibility that I'm being watched by unseen interested parties. All of the time. It's making me think. The 5p isn't mine. And I know, it's not like it's £5m or even £5k? But am presuming that access to the eternal spiritual realm is not about a concept of scale, more one of action/principle? Or is the belief in deities the most important thing? But that is distinctly troubling because presumably the punishing [s]bastards[/s] divine beings [b]can[/b] read my mind and know how selfish it is of me to wish to live forever and see my loved ones again, yet this time free of pain and suffering? The trick is to love and trust in the being/s, isn't it? Argh. Five pence. My grandmother was semi-religious and introduced me to the concepts of 'hell' and guilt. I can feel it all coming back to me...

I feel some change.

That'll be the 5p in your pocket.

This has slowed down, do we have winner?

Depends on your point of view.....

wilburt - Member

This has slowed down, do we have winner?

cthulhu

yes, I think the aetheists have won the day...

There can be no winners here.

I think it ground to a halt as we realised that people were asking questions which were not answered and answering questions which were not asked and folks were looking for simple solutions to complex questions

Ah. Irony.

Beelzebub on a split decision

See? It's not me trying to keep it going!

... he said, keeping it going.

(-:

yes, I think the aetheists have won the day...

I was hoping that someone was going to ask me what my evidence for that statement was, and then I could have replied that I didn't need any evidence, it was good enough that I just believed it to be true 🙂

It works for me.

In the next few days just take a moment to forget all you've been brainwashed with, find a nice tranquil spot and just have a empty headed look around, spend as long as you like just gazing in wonder, spot the animals and insects, watch the trees sway in the wind, check out the cloud formations and breath that air in deep

After an hour or 2 or 3, just softly say to yourself... the big bang theory!
Hahahahahhahahahaahahahah, on your effing bike you dopey arsed human