then it must be a bit shit to be you.

Dear me Neal, how does it feel to be someone who comes out with insults like that?

All He asks is for us to love our God and love our neighbour

and there lies in a problem - god is imaginary and my neighbour is a **** lol

Perchy - that has TRAP written all over in in large letters. I am going to turn the other cheek and run away

I am going to turn the other cheek and run away

😆

Can't run away after the trap is sprung

Whether you believe in God or not, treating others as you would want to be treated is a pretty good way to live your life. Pretty simple really.

And that's where religion falls down. It sets people up to subjugate others. Inquisitions, ISIs, Crusaders, la Marche pour Tous have power based on submission. Submit to their doctrine and even their presence at you peril. There is no compromise, give them a bit of slack and as they're control freaks they'll start messing up your life.

Gotta agree with Edukator there.

And that's where religion falls down. It sets people up to subjugate others. Inquisitions, ISIs, Crusaders, la Marche pour Tous have power based on submission. Submit to their doctrine and even their presence at you peril. There is no compromise, give them a bit of slack and as they're control freaks they'll start messing up your life.

Gosh, I missed the subliminal messages in the Vicar of Dibley.

It's a tool for subjugating people, in the same way that a breadknife is a murder weapon. It's up to the user.

You can subjugate people with other things too. See communist Europe and Russia - they were secular.

There is plenty blood on Buddhist hands in the far east.

And guess what the common denominator is in most sectarian conflicts involving buddhists? An Abrahamic religion, that almost invariably has problems with every other religion on the planet? Can you guess which one that is yet?

I'll help you.

Christian vs Buddhist violence - generally unheard of
Sikh vs Buddhist violence - generally unheard of
Jew vs Buddhist violence - nil, not enough to interact with them.

Admitedly, Buddhists seem to like killing communists as well.

If they just stayed at home and did their worship in private I would have no issue.

To be fair, they broadly do these days. The JWs are the poster-boy arsepains, but I've not had any them on my doorstep in forever. I expect they finally realised that they tend not to get a very high conversion rate in a largely Muslim neighbourhood.

Other than that it's really just the shouty "end of the world" nutters with microphones you get in city centres, and I don't think we can hold them as particularly representative.

I suppose the biggest potential issue in modern Britain with not keeping religion private is the symbiosis between Church and State, and offhand I'm not [s]holy[/s] wholly sure how much influence they still have for practical purposes.

You cannot see the evidence because you choose not to, the faith comes first then your mind will be open.
It doesn't matter how intelligent you are or how well you can translate ancient text, without the faith you will never see the clear evidence.

The words themselves have no meaning, think of them like a magic spell if you like... with the key of faith in your heart the scriptures become a passageway to a new place.

[img] [/img]

Dear me Neal, how does it feel to be someone who comes out with insults like that?

It's not an insult, it's an observation.

But either way, I'm fine with it.

Better than refusing to see the good in anything connected with religion just because of your own prejudices.

theocb - Member

There is very clear evidence tbh but you choose not to see it, stop being narrow minded and the murky water will clear quickly

that's not being narrow minded - just imagine if all science was done like that, we would think that GM foods caused cancer or that immunisations caused autism.

Better than refusing to see the good in anything connected with religion just because of your own prejudices.

Musollini made the trains run on time as well (apparently).

Thus, fascism is actually a really good idea. Anyone who refuses to see this is a snowflake antifa commie pinko libtard with a remoaner and homosexualist agenda.

Good point. Well made.

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

Did you notice the "apparently" in parenthesis?

That was my deeper point.

There is no good in religion. 😈

Yes. That's why I looked it up to see if it was in fact true. As obviously I'd heard it before but never knew if it was true or not.

There is good in religion, it's just that some people refuse to see it. Which is pretty sad.

In much the same way that there is obvious problems and contradictory points in the bible, but some people refuse to see them.

There is good in religion

that's not religion, its people.

that's not religion, its people.

You could say that's true of the bad things too, it's all still People.

Though, many organised religions are very good at giving bad people justification to do bad things or have questionable opinions.

... organised religions are very good at giving [s]bad[/s] good people justification to do bad things...

Also.

The JWs are the poster-boy arsepains, but I've not had any them on my doorstep in forever. I expect they finally realised that they tend not to get a very high conversion rate in a largely Muslim neighbourhood.

[img] [/img]

Have you tried reading something else? That works well for me with things I'm not interested in.

Presumably because they were running into problems getting people to go door to door after so many years of less than superb results.

I always wondered what their conversion rate was. It must be astonishingly low. I appreciate that their mandate is to "spread the word" rather than get people to fall in with them, but still.

I don't think it matters how many they convert - only that they try.

That's kind of what I was clumsily trying to say, yes. I was just curious as to how many people actually went on to join their flock. I mean, you cast your net wide enough, you must catch [i]some[/i] fish right?

The convert people mostly by indoctrinating children who are gullible enough to believe the nonsense they spread.

Given that they believe only a few thousand of them will actually be saved, the actual incentive must be to convert as few of us as possible whilst obeying the imperative to let us all know...

The convert people mostly by indoctrinating children who are gullible enough to believe the nonsense they spread.

That goes for most organised religions. Although "gullible" is being a little unfair to children. They are evolved to believe whatever bullshit we (and other trusted figures of authority) feed them, especially if reinforced at school and by regular visits to a church/synagogue/mosque/temple.

The numbers of adult converts to (the big organised) religion(s) is dwarfed by the numbers forced into it by indoctrination from childhood. I wonder why that is.

This is largely US-centric, but it reckons 3 baptisms (ie, conversions) per year for every 100 JW publishers (canvassers).

https://priceonomics.com/jehovahs-witnesses-a-case-study-in-viral-marketing/

Shouldnt the title of this thread have been " Lets see how far up our own arses we can get while spouting utter bollocks "..
Seems more appropriate to me .. 😯

"Athiests spout bollocks" might've got me flamed even more 🙂

Shouldnt the title of this thread have been " Lets see how far up our own arses we can get while spouting utter bollocks "..
Seems more appropriate to me ..

In complete contrast to your valuable and insightful contribution to the discussion.

Oh ..its a discussion is it !?
Well hush my mouth

In complete contrast to your valuable and insightful contribution to the discussion.

To be fair to him, he is making a judgement based on something he has some insight into, which is way ahead of most posters on this thread.

There is good in religion

that's not religion, its people.

But when it's bad things, that's religion right?

Okaaayy 🙄

nealglover - Member

There is good in religion

that's not religion, its people.

But when it's bad things, that's religion right?

Okaaayy

I clearly never said or insinuated that - there have been plenty of people that were bad without religion's help

belief is the abandonment of reason

Cougar uses "organised religion" rather than just "religion", and important distinction I'll adopt from here in. My comments on this thread refer to "organised religion" and more to the point religion imposed on others by whatever means; social pressure, community pressure, fear off hordes with pitchforks, fear of being accused of witchcraft, fear of not getting work.

I've walked to Compostelle a couple of times. The first time I was astonished by the number of young Spanish people on ther last 100km, until someone explained to me that a Compostella greatly improves one's chance of employment in Spain, especially as a civil servant.

Idividuals walking to compostelle for spiritual reasons I see as positive, doing it as a prerequisit for getting a job as negative, it's an example of the church's hold on society.

Only a minority of Christians do. We've got the Pope telling us that evolution and the big bang are real

Well sort of. For evolution what he said was it wasnt incompatible with the notion of creation.
The RC (and several other churches) tend to be a bit vague on the details. Whilst they dont tend to argue against the overwhelming evidence nowadays it is somewhat inaccurate saying they accept evolution as opposed to theistic evolution where god gets to intervene in vague ways.
For example the RC position on Adam and Eve is as master class in dodging the awkward questions.

On a related note, has anyone had any interactions with members of the Plymouth Brethren? I saw the apologist John Lennox once, then read a few books by his mentor, David Gooding.
It took me a while to realise just how conservative they are. I've since learnt they are both members of the open brethren, but John Lennox keeps it very quiet and prefers to push his academic credentials.

@Mrwoppits, I'm not offended at all.. the ancient scriptures to a non-believer are gibberish, the hidden meaning can only be unlocked with faith

You simply cannot apply the laws of man to faith, that's how simple it really is. If you have no faith, non comprenday for you :o)
I have some printed copies of pre-translated text and I sometimes sit under my favourite tree in the middle of the night, close my eyes and read a language I have not learnt. All my senses at one guided by faith unlocking the door to the special place

Faith - the purposeful suspension of critical thinking

You simply can't apply the laws of faith to truth/facts.

read a language I have not learnt.

I'm interested to know to which language you refer, and if or not a native speaker of said language would be able to verify your translation, give or take?

I'm an atheist, but not in the egocentric evangelical sense

I have some printed copies of pre-translated text and I sometimes sit under my favourite tree in the middle of the night, close my eyes and read a language I have not learnt. All my senses at one guided by faith unlocking the door to the special place

Faith allows you to understand Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic? I don't believe you.

You simply cannot apply the laws of man to faith, that's how simple it really is. I

And therein lies the proof that religion is a man made construct. Only man has the ego to assume that any kind of all powerful being would be arsed to write a book / books for us in a language we can understand, even worse, create us in its own image. It takes a species as self centric as ours to form religions in the first place.

any kind of all powerful being would be arsed to write a book / books for us

I don't think anyone ever asserted this, even in the 5th Century, Ten Commandments aside. The texts were written by men, 'guided' by god.

I see having faith as a mental condition / personality disorder. Nothing wrong with that (I have my own personality disorder) but people need to see it as it is and understand it from that angle.

OK, so what kind of all powerful being would be arsed to dictate to somebody? Which actually seems more implausible to me. It would be akin to you or I speaking to a dust mite.

Edit - and why has said being not written any sequels? Surely it realises some updates are needed to its teachings. I'd be up for transcribing

I have some printed copies of pre-translated text and I sometimes sit under my favourite tree in the middle of the night, close my eyes and read a language I have not learnt. All my senses at one guided by faith unlocking the door to the special place

Hahahah.

All my senses at one guided by faith unlocking the door to the special place

Also, this is what most people do to their wives/girlfriends/mistresses. I was about to make a "your mom" joke but decided better of it.

This thread is starting to read like a fantasy novel for twelve-year olds.

Appropriate then?

Still no sticky. Boo, hiss. And this is a corker

^^ there have been no mention of boobs yet Edukator. Or, for that matter, which deity would win in a fight. 😉

Your moms boobs are god.

There.

I win thread.

Your mums got a fanny only a god could fill lol

Romans, Greeks and the Norse gods Odin, Thor, Zeus etc. they had their place at the time and the death of those civilisations ended them.

Clearly you haven't grasped American Gods. In fact, I reckon one or two of those gods in your pic appeared much later in that weird 70s book The Joy Of Love.

Godly power is a simple matter of belief...

But being a bit more serious and a genuine question to the believers - is eternal life* a part of your belief and if so, would you buy into it if that wasn't on the table?

Not as flippant as it reads; I have a genuine interest in the psychology and persistence of belief in the gods/God of any religion.

*By that I mean reincarnation, heaven, hell, the new system. Anything you like!

Only man has the ego to assume that any kind of all powerful being would be arsed to write a book / books for us

OK, so what kind of all powerful being would be arsed to dictate

Sorry to be so blunt. But you really don't have a ****ing clue what you are arguing against do you ?

Still no sticky. Boo, hiss.

Back under your bridge THM, that's the second time you've tried to get a rise. Take part in the discussion or bugger off.

but people need to see it as it is and understand it from that angle

Why? Who says?

OK, so what kind of all powerful being would be arsed to dictate to somebody? Which actually seems more implausible to me. It would be akin to you or I speaking to a dust mite.

Even I know the answer to that one. It's because God created us as a special project, and he loves us. That's why. Humans talk to inferior animals all the time.

Back under your bridge THM, that's the second time you've tried to get a rise. Take part in the discussion or bugger off

Stay classy and keep up the standards 😯

It was never direct communication anyway:-

[i]We see through a glass, darkly...[/i]

Your moms classy.

Sorry to be so blunt. But you really don't have a **** clue what you are arguing against do you ?

No need to apologise. Are some religious texts not deemed to be the word of God? I'm not actually arguing either. More ribbing the guy who can translate texts through the power of faith. Like the world's shitiest x-man

I think God has lost interest in his "special project" and let it go to ruin. He never was very interventionist and for the last 1981 years has given up on the place.

the world's shitiest x-man

Okay, I just choked on that one. Enough already - he's an obvious troll with that shit, no...?

I think God has lost interest in his "special project" and let it go to ruin. He never was very interventionist and for the last 1981 years has given up on the place.

You misotheist, you. A man after my own heart, that takes a special kind of crazy.

[img] [/img]

God has lost interest in his "special project" and let it go to ruin

All through this thread I keep hearing this track running along nicely...

[i]God didn't build himself that throne
God doesn't live in Israel or Rome
God belong to the yankee dollar
God doesn't plant the bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn't even go to church
And God won't send us down to Allah to burn
No, God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it's sown[/i]

That the human race is about to reap what it's sown

Humans are ****s. The universe is a ****. And god made us in his image.

Therefore - God = a ****.

More ribbing the guy who can translate texts through the power of faith.

I don't think he was claiming to understand the text, was he? Just reading it.

Just like I can sing Nessun Dorma without any clue as to what it means but still enjoy it. It would sound crap translated.

Nessun Dorma is beautiful because it sounds good mathematically and because the person who sang it best, put shivers down peoples spine no matter what he was singing.

There's also such a thing as beautiful cadence and sound even in spoken speech. Have you never heard anyone comment on the beautiful sound of a language they don't understand?

Faith allows you to understand Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic? I don't believe you.

I am pretty sure Poes law is at work here

Just like I can sing Nessun Dorma without any clue as to what it means but still enjoy it. It would sound crap translated.

[i]"I have no idea to this day what those two Italian ladies were singing about..."[/i]

🙂

I don't think he was claiming to understand the text, was he?

There's also such a thing as beautiful cadence and sound even in spoken speech.

Again, it takes a special kind of crazy to appreciate that in a language you don't understand.

Who the hell listens to say, slam poetry in latin?

Hipsters or insane people. Take your pick.

There's also such a thing as beautiful cadence and sound even in spoken speech. Have you never heard anyone comment on the beautiful sound of a language they don't understand?

You've cracked it Mol. He has the audio book version of the ancient text. I can't see any other way he could like the sound. Perhaps he has the original from God's Dictaphone?

[s]Nine[/s] Ten pages in 24hrs...who'd a thought.

kerley - Member

I see having faith as a mental condition / personality disorder. Nothing wrong with that (I have my own personality disorder) but people need to see it as it is and understand it from that angle.

Be careful with this one. Stating something similar has got me a verbal kicking on here for years

Be careful with this one. Stating something similar has got me a verbal kicking on here for years

Yeah, but you've got previous bruv.

Helmets etc