I'm siding with Poah ..purely on the basis that he's a bloody nice bloke actually ..and the fact that I have ridden with him twice
Was this before Watson and Crick lol.Also...snap.
Ah but were you also a microbiologist, virologist or biophysicist lol
P.s I met Watson once
Hey, clouds are miraculous too y'know.
Completely unique never been seen before and never to be seen again.
No matter what side of faith's fence you sit, clouds are an agreed upon miracle.
The brainwashing has dulled your senses sister
No matter what side of faith's fence you sit, clouds are an agreed upon miracle.
The brainwashing has dulled your senses sister
Surely You're yanking our chain. You can't honestly believe that.
It's a fact from both sides of the fence.
Each cloud completely unique, billions of years to be created and will never be seen again.
They came from nothing, just like the story of jesus. We all believe in miracles you see.
Clouds are not a miracle. They are formed by a known physical reaction.
Sounds like a fart
Clouds are a miracle, you need to open your mind.. wind it back a few billion years and have a think about how that cloud you gazed at today was formed, you won't see another the same even if you live for 8000 billion and 70 years. That cloud came from nothing, like a nothingness no man can comprehend just like mazzers baby. Like I said your senses have been dulled.
WTF are you talking about.clouds don't come from nothing and the clouds in the sky were not formed billions of years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/sep/21/why-religious-belief-isnt-a-delusion-in-psychological-terms-at-least
Amusingly, I read an article a couple of days ago arguing that religious belief is a delusion. I chose not to post it cos I figured it'd be interpreted as inflammatory.
Hey, clouds are miraculous too y'know.
Completely unique never been seen before and never to be seen again.
They're random. With a sufficiently large set duplicates are unlikely but not impossible.
Clouds are a miracle, you need to open your mind.. wind it back a few billion years and have a think about how that cloud you gazed at today was formed,
From condensed water vapour evaporated from the sea yesterday.
you won't see another the same even if you live for 8000 billion and 70 years.
See above.
That cloud came from nothing, like a nothingness no man can comprehend just like mazzers baby. Like I said your senses have been dulled.
You either don't have the faintest idea about how the physical world around you works, or you're trolling.
Getting confused now, was theocb a creationist?
Narrow mindedness is not a good luck fam.
Where did the sea come from that created that cloud? every time you find an answer go back another step; keep heading back and either hit me up with some unknown scientific facts or accept they came from nothing. It's one or the other I think
Each cloud is made of a unique combination of water droplets. I think you might be talking about named formation types.. not sure if you are deliberately trolling tbh.
So, theocb, are you and old testament type creationist?
Where did the sea come from that created that cloud?
Comets, mainly.
Well, shame they closed down!
So ..what came first ..the chicken or the egg?
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[/i][b]I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg[/b]
Sorry to just throw this in to the thread and I'm sure it's nothing new... But why can't a God or omnipotent power have created the science and the physics of the universe?
Not trying to convince anyone of anything here,I just don't think that having a sense* that there could well be more to the universe than matter and energy following prescribed rules of physics and chemistry is necessary incompatible with science.
* I don't prescribe to a God in the conventional sense.
I'm just open minded and acknowledge that we know far less about the universe than we currently know. Every question we answer opens yet more questions.
Anyway, a God or no God, treat people decently as you wonder around our little chunk of the universe and the faith or doubt in a God is largely immaterial. To me anyway.
mmm, interesting poopy.
If we changed a few 'words' here and there would the 2 positions actually be very different.
A great miraculous power created the universe and all the unique things in it. Science and faith hand in hand right there buddy.
Either way, magical world out there.. check out those unicorns of the sky tomorrow.
Ah but were you also a microbiologist, virologist or biophysicist lol
I've worked in virology as well - QA now because **** staring at white walls, white coats and high containment labs for the rest of my short life on this planet. It gets depressing.
The word "mutation" is a bit of a bollocks term anyway - for undergrads and a-level students, you rarely hear the word used in an actual paper. The type of 'mutation' would be used instead - anyway, sorry if I pissed you off Poah.
But why can't a God or omnipotent power have created the science and the physics of the universe?
Because Occams Razor.
Tom_W1987 - Member
But why can't a God or omnipotent power have created the science and the physics of the universe?Because Occams Razor
The opinion I expressed it quite simple and makes no less or more assumptions than any opposing opinion on my view.
I'm sure every opinion in this thread and on this subject generally will also seem the simplest and most logical to its exponent.
As you have just in your above post actually.
That said, your opinion is just as valid as mine. Just not more so.
Well, to me - Occams Razor means that you're introducing more questions by saying that god created the universe - if we're talking about faith, I find it logically much easier to have faith in the universe having existed for eternity. That is a much simpler, cleaner explanation.
Tom_W1987 - Member
Well, to me - Occams Razor means that you're introducing more questions by saying that god created the universe - if we're talking about faith, I find it logically much easier to have faith in the universe having existed for eternity. That is a much simpler, cleaner explanation
I agree Tom, it is the cleaner and more logical explanation. For you. Which is fine.
For myself it doesn't happen to be.
Faith is also a concept I don't really apply to how I feel about the universe and my place in it. Certainly not about the existence of a "God" either.
Hope is probably a word I prefer over faith.
Hope is probably a word I prefer over faith.
I like this.
My cynical side (outside of science) says that the universe contracts and expands in a deterministic fashion and we are doomed to repeat our mistakes over and over again ad infinitum - and that there are a multitude of universes out there all doing the same but in a slightly different way. All part of one gigantic pointless broken record of a joke.
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Frankly Tom that cynical side you express about the universe is far from alien to me. Probably thought along similar lines far too much over the years. Mainly because it's a distinct possibility and that's all there is to "it all". Nothing more.
If that is the be all and end all I find it pretty scary if I'm honest. Don't mind admitting it.
For that reason alone I'll continue to remain open minded on another possibility. Nothing to lose after all. If nothing else life seems to demand a placebo effect on occasion.
Also, I've always had a particular fondness for this essay. It's deeply cynical at the end - but utterly humane at the same time.
http://www.academia.edu/882071/The_Moral_Imperative_to_Rebel_against_God
Also, you seem to be the most sensible person in this thread. More posts from poopscoop please and less rampant idiocy.
The morality of God. Yes, damned good question right there.
If regarded in a classical way I have to say that looking at the suffering I see in the world, some distant, some much closer, such a God would in many ways repel me.
Actually it's the main reason I don't really like to refer to a "God" when referring to some higher power for want of a less cliched phrase. To me that term, God and a lot of what it might mean is a human construct. I mean absolutely no offence to anyone that believes differently to that however.
If there is a "higher power" it is likely to be completely uninterested in us or to have motives we can't begin to fathom.
Hoping for the latter honestly. If it is the latter and "we" get to chat one day I'll be asking said higher power for some petty good explanations as to why suffering had to be part of this huge grand experiment.
Where did the sea come from that created that cloud
From the fusion of hydrogen and oxygen, two very common atoms in the universe.
anyway, sorry if I pissed you off Poah.
You didn't
But why can't a God or omnipotent power have created the science and the physics of the universe?
Maybe 1000's of years ago when people were ignorant and knew jack shit about physics, biology and chemistry. The idea that a god(s) exists is delusional.
Deliberately ignoring the point there pooh.
From the fusion of hydrogen and oxygen, two very common atoms in the universe.
Where did the atoms come from? I think we are getting close now...
Where did the atoms come from? I think we are getting close
Well hydrogen is made up of a proton and an electron (standard isotope). It's the most common atom in the universe. All atoms are made from it in stars. Protons are made up of 3 quarks, two up one down. For more information read up on the standard model of particle physics
Where did they come from? We could skip to the end but I'm sure you will keep dragging this out..
So if your end is where did the building blocks come from ? Answer god the next logical question is where did god come from ? May be the end point is while we measure time from the big bang that in reality there has always been matter all the way back or round time. To miss quote " its matter and physics all the way down" not the indifferent un-evidenced god of the ultimate gap.
@thocb
So... god because clouds.
And bone cancer in children?
theocb - Member
Where did they come from? We could skip to the end but I'm sure you will keep dragging this out..
Well yes actually the deeper we look the more we see, if a mystical deity construct helps you get your head round that, so be it.
I think that's about right kimbers. A mystical power created the universe.. scientists need that mystical power to get there head around the rest of it.
Where did the mystical power come from?
Take your time with the bone cancer problem...
Not knowing how something happened is simply that. Shoe-Horning in a fiction to "explain it" has no relationship whatsoever to science, although I'm sure scientists everywhere will now make great strides with their investigations following your magnificent contribution to quantum physics research...
I'm still trying to get my head around how that chicken egg survived in the big bang ..one tough shell..
The word "mutation" is a bit of a bollocks term anyway - for undergrads and a-level students, you rarely hear the word used in an actual paper. The type of 'mutation' would be used instead
So... Some genetic changes, are not mutation, Some genetic changes are not evolutionary, some evolutionary changes are not mutations. Are all evolutionary changes due to genetic change?
Indirectly, yes even a meme is dependent on genes
And bone cancer in children?
Now, I don't know the answer to that, but a few of the religious types offered an answer when Stephen Fry asked the same question. Some suggest it is a false question, based in the here and now, which is not the theist perspective.
Indirectly, yes even a meme is dependent on genes
But genetic change?
poah - Member
But why can't a God or omnipotent power have created the science and the physics of the universe?Maybe 1000's of years ago when people were ignorant and knew jack shit about physics, biology and chemistry. The idea that a god(s) exists is delusional.
Ok, not really sure where that type of defensive comment came from but such is the nature of forums.
You consider me ignorant compared to you? ok, I'm fine with that. I'll take ignorance over arrogance.
The idea that you can't accept an opinion that is contrary to your own is "interesting" nothing more. It arguably erodes your assertions and opinions but I'll let others be the judge of that. To me it's just more an indication of persona than of opinion.
Your opinion, for that's all it is Poah, is no more considered or valid than mine or anyone else's in this thread for that matter.
All of the above said, if you are just out to attempt to try and antagonise, well ok... Just a shame you are so disinterested in a topic which is actually fascinating because people's views and opinions do vary so much on it.
