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On friday driving home accelerated, no power, whoosh sound and whining when accelerating. Turbo pipe had some off afters eal had split.
Garage is now talking about the turbo going but not wanting to replace the turbo due to needing to do x/y/z as well involving a full flush of the engine (and there are bits that cannot be cleaned??
Engine management light has triggered the info - "anti pollution" fault
1.6 hdi 2008 berlingo 45k miles serviced when meant too
dont understand your post but
sounds about standard for a 1.6HDI
if its not had religeous oil changes the whole thing shits its self into the engine.
if the turbo has disintigrated then you really are looking at a thick bill.
also has technology moved on that much that people have forgotten to let turbos cool or at least get cooler oil into them before killing the engine. Used to be standard on turbod cars now i see them just being driven in and stopped - that wont help.
Turbo pipe had some off afters eal had spli
Is this from a Hungarian phrasebook?
Theres an issue with the oil feed to the turbo clogging. Replacement turbos and the associated work aren't warrenteed unless somethings done to rectify that oil feed
thatll be the small mesh filter that dealers frequently dont change as part of a service then am i right maccruiskeen.
my local specialist has nothing but praise for the hdi engine but did warn me of this flaw. I was toying with changing my DW8 1.9D for a turbo'd version and he said the 1.6 was the one to go for over the 2.0
He mentioned their love of doing this and the mesh filter that you need to change as well as religeously changing the oil.
thatll be the small mesh filter that dealers frequently dont change as part of a service then am i right maccruiskeen.
I think (relying on memory here) for the warrentee on the turbo it was a change of the item that has the mesh filter in (or whatever it is that clogs because the filter fails), rather than just the filter itself - in other words an upgraded component rather than a replacement.
Oh dear. That's the same as the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine ]Ford 1.6TDCi engine[/url]. Common problem.
I missed a service on mine (in a Focus C-Max), so the filter didn't get changed. 6 months later, the turbo blew up but wasn't warrantied due to missing the service, so I had to stump up £800 to replace it. All fine, until a year later, the engine developed curious noises which turned out to be swarf in the engine block, from the turbo. Engine trashed, Ford wanted [b]£5000[/b] for a new engine!!!!
With a bit of digging around, I discovered the Fraud garage hadn't followed the instructions correctly to fit the turbo and hadn't done enough oil changes to flush it through, or changed the mesh filter. After much batling, I threatened them with court action, they gave me a new car 🙂 (with the 2.0 engine).
Problem seems to be that in an effort to design a smaller engine, but still get high power, they've used a high pressure turbo that seems to be very delicate. I know of someone eles who's replaced the turbo 3 times, luckily all under warranty.
Aslong as yours is all serviced, it should be covered by warranty.
check and see if there have been any recalls .
peugeot are royal slags for doing "recalls" under servicing.
for example the front springs WILL snap on you , they did a rolling recall where they fitted retainers.
no letters were ever sent out they would just sneak them on at a service. which isnt any good if you use an independant specialist - luckily mines noticed i didnt have em - still dont , i just got him to fit new springs instead as it was a dodgy fix due to infearior coatings on their springs that causes the corrosion/snapping
same with the ECU software in my dw8. there has been an upgrade put out to stop the hunting you can occasionally get from the old software but is not an OFFICIAL recall just a rolling upgrade as they cal it.
So if i have a new turbo and the associated pipes and filter leading up to this it should be ok?
"I missed a service on mine (in a Focus C-Max), so the filter didn't get changed. 6 months later, the turbo blew up but wasn't warrantied due to missing the service, so I had to stump up £800 to replace it. All fine, until a year later, the engine developed curious noises which turned out to be swarf in the engine block, from the turbo. Engine trashed, Ford wanted £5000 for a new engine!!!!"
this is what your garage is trying to avoid its your risk.
I know my local garage doesn't like doing full engine flushes as it can apprently wreck the seal on the piston rings which are bedded in.
So when they fit the new turbo, they should replace the oil and filters, run it for about 15 minutes, then do another full oil and filter change, run it again, and I think do another change. I caught them as they only invoiced me for a single filter and single sump full of oil. No garage in the world gives away oil for free when they can charge for it!
But if its warrantied, you're not paying, but make sure you get to see the invoice and parts list anyway.
I had this go in a 407 estate of a similar vintage. New Turbo I am afraid 😀
serviced when meant too
When was the last service?
Main or Indie?
Be prepared to employ a independent engineer.
As above, if its main and the mesh wasn't done/isn't showing as being clean I'd threaten legal action.
IF its worse-worse case scenario then I'm sure within a few months we could locate a 1.6D (or even 2.0D) engine from a breakers for a fraction of that price.
3.0V6 engine , suspension and rear axels from a 406 are pretty much a drop in item 😉
Be prepared to employ a independent engineer.
But only if you know a good one. I got one in to check mine over and he was the vaguest, non-commital person I've ever dealt with.
we could locate a 1.6D (or even 2.0D) engine from a breakers for a fraction of that price
Thats what I tried to do. Quoted £500 for a 200-mile engine from a car that had been written off by the owners son. It was when I went to a local garage to ask about getting it fitted that I started talking it through and we established something was not right.
Had one 5 year old,turbo fins disintergrated into engine the bill started at £1000 went to £1800 and still had oil light on and they would'nt say the new turbo would last they changed oil pump flushed out, changed banjo bolts alsorts. Before having work done think very hard.
Plug it into an OBD2 reader and find out exactly what codes it has thrown up and take it from there.
That 1.6 engine is a nightmare, check that it has not developed an injector leak (for some reason usually injector 3 goes first, then the others) as that sludges the oil leading to filter blockage and then a dead turbo.
Fraud have a long winded maintenance instruction regarding turbo replacement, oil and filter changes (3 off) and turbo feed oil flow rate.
Anyone got a diagram of the turbo filter, I have had mine for 3 years and never changed it car is at 90,000.
I've got a copy of the turbo-replacement instructions.
It starts with:
Should a customer experiences a loss of power and by following the relevant workshop manual procedure on FordEtis you find a failed turbocharger as the root cause with clear damage to the turbocharger (turbine/compressor wheels damaged or turbo shaft broken), the following procedure needs to be carried out to prevent reoccurrence of the failure.
CAUTION: It is important to complete each step of this service instruction as directed.
Failure to do so may result in misdiagnosis and failure to address the customers concern.
Email me if you want a copy.
Im a tech for citroen , you need to remove the turbo plastic pipe so you can see the impeller if you can wiggle it , it's f##ked , you will need to replace the turbo THE OIL PUMP FEED FILTER , the turbo feed and return pipes and don't buy a ****y e bay turbo , only use fully synth oil and flush it x2 . It has been caused by lack of servicing or poor servicing the main one being changing the oil when not fully warmed up and using poor oil . Message me if you need any other info .
20 years at citroen for my sins !!!
Just liberated it from the garage to seek a second opinion at a mate of a mate. Driven it and no white or black smoke, no fault codes, no extra noise bar the quiet whine on acceleration, just no boost.
If it is the turbo and you keep driving it the impeller nut will come off and be sucked into the engine !!! Be warned !!!
Agree. Im NO expert but keep driving a car with an issue coild definitely worsen the problem.
Driving it is a bad idea
Chris - are hdi turbos different from others ? In that all turbos ive worked on have had play at the shaft due to them being floating on a thin layer of oil - old garrett t2 and t25
Im sure you know if this is te case but so rob doesnt feel slight play at the shaft and think thats his issue
Trail rat , yes it will have very very slight play but due to the depth you have to use a single finger to feel for play , and TBA it's very hard to feel any play at all in a good unit , if you use a torch and a mirror you will also see scuffs from the impeller marking the turbo body . If you use the torch / mirror method and the thread and no nut is visible your last chance is its stuck in the oil in the bottom of the inter cooler .
Most of the problems I've experienced with the 1.6HDI engine are related to the Peugeot it is usually attached to...
it not a pug!
same engine: peugeot/citroen/ford/mazda
oh sh*t im scared reading this wifes 1.6tdci is making noises... 56reg only 48k
we are thinking of getting shot of it and getting a 1.6 petrol c-max (need a bigger car)
just read this from the handy link above (thanks)
The engine must be run with a lowSAP oil because of the nature of the particulate filter and exhaust gas recirculation valve.
what the funk is lowSAP oil, i was going to change the oil and use halfords 5-30 ford semi synthetic?
Quick google reveals:
The chemical composition of the lubricants contains,
among other things, Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and
Sulphur, which provide the following properties: antiwear,
antioxidant, detergent, etc.
I reckon it cuases less ash in the burn. same reason ITs recomended to use high quality fuel, not supermarket specials, to get a clean burn. Less particulates in the exhaust, less crap in the turbo, less to bung it up.
Of course, they could design an engine that didn't rely on the turbo being immaculate, to cope with a real-world situation. Like every other car manufacturer does...
pretty much everything you need to know
Which manufacturers are those then irbandito ?
Well, Ford themselves in the 2.0TDCi engine.
based on what is that then ?
http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/goodbad.aspx
ill take dieselbobs endorsement over anything ANYONE on this forum can tell me.
the man from diesel bob he hates all ford TDCI engines it seems.
the man from diesel bob he hates all ford TDCI engines it seems.
I wouldn't go near one, TBH. Or a VAG diesel. Or anything French.
If I get another diesel it'll probably be Italian to be honest (same engine that Vauxhall use)
i would have an XUD or DW8 french engine - ie PRE hdi - currently got 1 of them
ive got a 2.2 DTI currently.
and yes id buy a JTD engine in a fiat over a fordie
tbh my next decent car i buy will be of decent displacement and auto i think.
[i]"different people on the internet have different experiences and opinions"[/i] shocker.
All I'm saying is the 1.6TDCi/HDi is notoriously delicate, that's a given (google it). In my experience the 2.0TDCi isn't.
I have it on record from the regional Ford Service manager that the 1.6 is a shocking engine, he could quite understand why I wanted a different engine in the replacement car. It took 6 months of hard work investigating the cause of the problems in an effort to save me £5000. Funnily enough Ford customer services weren't to happy with me.
If I'd had my choice, I'd have replaced the car with something non-Ford, but by that point, it was the easiest solution. I've been driving the 2.0 replacement for a few years now and have had absolutly no problems from the engine at all.
Edit: From Dieselbob:
1.6 TDCI FORD FUSION / PEUGEOT / CITREON 1.6 HDI
Annoying fault of injector seal leakage
Horrendous fault of turbo charger self destruction
The Toyota 2.0L D4D is a good reliable lump
No DPF, No cam belt
Looking at a new turbo, feed pipe, fitting etc - £8-900. 12 month warranty on the turbo though so not all that bad.
It does look like i will be chopping it in though.
BAD DIESELS
FORD TDCI
Focus 1.8 TDCI (2001 to 2006)
Mondeo 2.0 & 2.2 TDCI (2001 to 2007)
Transit 2.0 & 2.2 TDCI (2004 to 2007)
Oh dear!
Apart from the problems of:
Injector failure,
Fuel pump failure,
Cam chain jumping,
Dual mass flywheel collapse,
Wiring faults,
ECU problems.
A pretty good engine (ermm!)
miss that bit right at the top about the 2.0?
my dads transits been a complete ball bag of an engine.
and yes of course youll find a problem with every engine - but some are more notorious than others.
for example my 19j 2.5 TD - horrific engine with a reputation for blowing up(piston rings) at about 80k. im on borrowed time at 125k now !
miss that bit right at the top about the 2.0?
Nope, I saw it. I'm just saying mine is trouble-free (as no doubt thousands of 1.6s are) And as I said, I wouldn't have had it if I had more choice, but it was either that, or write £5000 off.
@ rob jackson, just make sure the invoice matches the parts list:
[i]
[b]Parts Required[/b]
Turbocharger - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 523 337 1
Turbocharger - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 479 055 1
Oil supply tube - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 479 840 1
Oil supply tube - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 479 839 1
Oil return line - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 483 832 1
Oil return line - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 483 831 1
Turbocharger oil feed pipe banjo bolt with filter 1 450 265 2
Oil supply tube union copper washer 1 232 215 6
Oil filter 1 359 941 2
Oil filter gasket 1 145 944 1
Oil pick up tube (including oil pick up tube retaining bolts (3 off)) 1 483 825 1
Seal vacuum pump 1 355 031 2
Catalytic converter to turbocharger clamp 1 474 828 2
Exhaust gasket 1 152 194 -
Gasket oil cooler and filter assembly 1 145 946 1
Turbocharger outlet pipe (If Required) 1 439 410 1[/i]
Hope my 1.6 D2 Volvo V70 fairs better.
look after it and itll do you for many more.
lax servicing and driving like a granny all the time/thrashing from cold all the time is what kills most engines ime.