[Closed] Any woodworking experts got any tips for Elf?

kayak23 - Member
Cue the plug...

I am an instructor on furniture making courses (City & Guilds) in Leamington Spa, Warwickshire. Re-training is a great thing to do and we have students of all ages from 16 to 75 who get on really well.

Yes, a carpentry course will tend to be more on the joinery side, hanging doors, roofing, skirting etc etc. We focus purely on Craft-based furniture making and our students get an awful lot out of it.

We run evening classes for leisure or qualifications and full and part-time days too. We cover all aspects of furniture traditional and modern including laminating. We also have Photography departments, Jewellery, ceramics and glass. A very creative place to be.

I'd recommend doing an evening class for sure if thats your thing.

If I was over that way, I'd definitely be getting in touch. To be honest, your info has given me an idea. I think i was only looking for 'wood working' and 'carpentry', but perhaps searching college websites for 'furniture making' might yield better results!

Yeah, I'd like to do a woodworking class, yet sadly the only ones (reasonably) local to me are more to do with vocational training in joinery than craft/hobby type stuff. I've enquired about a few courses, but none of them involve stuff like inlay work or fine detailing and that, it's more geared towards commercial production.

Lots of fantastic, really useful info here though. Once again STW comes up trumps. 😀

Glad it's been enjoyable for others too. I'd still like to see examples of peoples' own work though!

I'd still like to see examples of peoples' own work though!

Here's a stool I made at work

[img] [/img]

Not quite finished mind - I've still got to sand it down.

I think ernie has had even more training than I have.
Loving the rustic look you've achieve there, coupled with the practicality of a sturdy piece of furniture.

How many seconds did that take to create?

I [s]Made[/s] bodged my woodstore, for the free hardwood offcuts from the boys work
[IMG] [/IMG]
EDIT they actually skip it and pay someone to take it away 😯

they actually skip it and pay someone to take it away

Khani I actually need those offcuts give to me them please.

No seriously I [i]need[/i] them. It's for the good of Humanity.

I see Ernie is still being horrible and mean and nasty. 😥

I've been Googling CNC machining, and it seems that's the perfect answer for what I need actually. Will enable a sort of mass-production style operation.

Also it will be ideal for other designs I've got. But I'm not going to rush it, I'm going to start small and build up...

[img] [/img]

Right; anyone know any good CNC places in That London?

Bloody hell...

[img] [/img]

😮

Even more wow:

[img] [/img]

No seriously check pon it:

http://nordicneanderthal.tumblr.com/post/598023334

I'm gonna buuuurnnn it all!!!!... mwahahaha!!!

I need to know the location of that skip

[img] [/img]

Look what you've done. Please don't.

[IMG] [/IMG]
There there........

That white 3 legged chair......looks well unstable. Are you actually meant to sit on it?

Elfin - check out this place: http://cncrouting.co.uk/

not near London, but have a gander at some of the projects.....!

Build your own CNC Router.....
Its not difficult
Bloke here at work has one set up in his dads Garage for furniture making / Carving
Cost him about £1500 all in IIRC 😀

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

Failing that any decent Signmakers will have a CNC router, just design what you want (Autocad/sketchup etc) and export as a DXF file and they can cut straight from that

HTH
Dom

cr500dom - Member
Build your own CNC Router.....
Its not difficult
Bloke here at work has one set up in his dads Garage for furniture making / Carving
Cost him about £1500 all in IIRC

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

Failing that any decent Signmakers will have a CNC router, just design what you want (Autocad/sketchup etc) and export as a DXF file and they can cut straight from that

HTH
Dom

WOW! The internet is a truly amazing place. I shall definitely be looking into that!!

As well as Khani's wood, I actually need a CNC machine now. 😐

More wonderful info. CNC 100% the way to go for my particular needs. In fact what can be achieved has made me reconsider some older design ideas I thought would be too difficult to realise.

Can CNC cutters use EPS files?

Whats EPS ? whats the system they are created in ?
Generally they work on g-code, but they can translate this from DXF / DWG files (Autocad 2d)
Step or IGES files (3d) can be used as well and I suspect you could actually create the form you need in Maya / 3dStudio Max and then export as an STL file which is generally layered cuts for rapid prototyping, if you played around with lowering the resolution to suit material thickness you could get some decent results that way if they can read STL ?
I`d see if Google sketchup can export as DXF and start there ;o)

(I`ve not used it as I have Catia V5 / Solidworks/ Pro-Engineer)
HTH
Dom

EPS = Encapsulated PostScript as used by Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop and that. Uses vector graphics.

2D, but tbh the stuff I need is just 2-axis anyway really.

If I was over that way, I'd definitely be getting in touch. To be honest, your info has given me an idea. I think i was only looking for 'wood working' and 'carpentry', but perhaps searching college websites for 'furniture making' might yield better results!

Whereabouts are you? There is a few good places all over the country so I may be able to suggest somewhere.

I've been working with some maple ply recently. It's very expensive, I think around £250 a sheet. Imo its a bit bland although I haven't put a finish on it yet. Birch gives far more dramatic stripes.

It's very expensive, I think around £250 a sheet

😯

I'm going to try some birch ply. I've had quite a fruitless day trying to find a local CNC firm, but there must be some around.

All this info has really helped me shape my ideas and plans a lot more, and I've got a much better idea of how to progress. I've gone from knowing very little [i]indeed[/i], to knowing very little. 😀

Bin doing a fair bit of research into things last few days, and it's fascinating to see the amazing diversity of styles and applications. There's stuff out there, ye Gods the prices??!!? 😯

Feeling a lot more encouraged about it now, and more confident in my own ideas. So thanks to all who've offered advice and tips.

Right: Does anyone know how to turn a design in Illustrator into something that could be used by a CNC place? Is it possible to turn an Illustrator image to a 3-D Sketchup file?

And is Sketchup Pro a good start for software for this kind of thing?

speckledbob - Member
I've been working with some maple ply recently. It's very expensive, I think around £250 a sheet. Imo its a bit bland although I haven't put a finish on it yet. Birch gives far more dramatic stripes.

LOL what you have had done is had the ply sheet veneered in Maple.
The Veneer would be either in Crown cut or Quarter cut veneer or the cheaper cut of veneer we call Stripe
you have paid way over cost has you can buy pre veneered board a lot cheaper.

Effin could not get out to find out about the CNC company has in bed with Bronchitis

Ah what Grantway I need you fit and well mate! 😮

About a week ago, I had an idea then got all excited and went out to get stuffs.

Now, I'm sitting here bewildered by the sheer magnitude of choices and different processes. People say 'birch ply' but then there's different grades, different sources, Lord above.

So what's this Danish oil and beeswax thing then? How does that work?

Effin your rather lost give me till the weekend and il go through things
over a coffee with you.
I can't bare it I can give you commercial advice and numbers and how too
up to you.
Going to bed now.

You should be able to get something useful out of illustrator. I haven't got illustrator in front of me but IIRC you can export as a DXF, it might need a plug-in. Adjust the setting for the earliest DXF version as most CNC machines are pretty basic

Sketch-up is OK. There are quite a few plug-ins for importing and exporting but you might need the pro version. Its still a bit sketchy for my tastes rather than proper 3D cad but you might get on with it.

Draftsight might be a better option to create 2D shapes for cutting. If you get a DXF out of illustrator I'd still download something like this to check it or modify it.

grantway

The client specificaly asked for a maple core ply for a project I am involved with. I'm simply saying other types of timber board are available but at a cost.

speckledbob - Member
grantway

The client specificaly asked for a maple core ply for a project I am involved with. I'm simply saying other types of timber board are available but at a cost.

Sorry fella but yep that is true

How many of these pieces are you looking at making then elfin, couldn't you make a prototype by hand? What did you say it is you're making again? 😉

I'm loving the effects that can be got from ply, the topo table is amazing, I'd have the topo side up with glass over it. I keep thinking of things I'd like to make from it but I don't think I have the skills yet, having an image in your minds eye and getting it made can be very different things, I'm not the most patient either to put it mildly. I like to finish everything in a day or i dont sleep at night 😐

2D, but tbh the stuff I need is just 2-axis anyway really.

If its just 2d cut outs you're getting cut then a sign shop will be all you need, the one who does work for me works straight from Illustrator files - their client base will be more graphic-designery so thats the kind of file they'll more used to receiving and working with.

People say 'birch ply' but then there's different grades, different sources, Lord above

An 'A' will be the face ply being as near as dammit flawless, a B will have any flaws neatly and pretty much invisibly patched, C is getting a bit more honest looking. However for what you seem to be doing the faces don't matter much, so you need to ask the supplier for whichever board has the least internal voids

So what's this Danish oil and beeswax thing then? How does that work?

Danish oil and wax as finishes work in different ways. Wax essentially sits on top of the wood, oil gets drawn in. Both are moderately durable but you wouldn't want to put your cup of hot tea down on them.

Danish oil is applied by thinning the first coat with some white spirit which makes it easier for the wood to suck in that oily goodness. Subsequent coats can be put on 'neat' though some prefer to thin subsequent coats in diminishing ratios of oil to spirit.

Danish oil gives a lovely matt sheen when the coats are built up and it is burnished(rubbed hard to build up friction-heat)
Because of the dull sheen it leaves, some like to add some wax over the top to bring more of a shine to it and to add a further layer of protection. Something like 'Black Bison Wax' (don't worry, its not made out of bisons) is a lovely wax and will add to the quality of the finish although waxes are notoriously hard to apply really well with a very even sheen.

Also, I'd avoid waxes on intricate pieces with corners as its all too easy to get a build up of wax in the corners.

Finish really comes down to final useage.
Something like a dining table wants a durable finish, pre-catalysed lacquer or something is ideal(even this can be applied matt and then have wax over the top for a more natural-looking finish, as lacquers often look 'plasticky' if too high-build/thick)

If your item is a decorative item such as a small sculpture, then the finish is going to be more of an aesthetic consideration than a practical one. Where I've made small woodturned items i've pretty much just wanged a bit of Danish oil on them and left them at that.

For large numbers of items which you are alluding to, I'd say you'd be better off approaching someone who'll do it for you, in a finishing shop.

Have you seen [url= http://www.lathamtimber.co.uk/images/Literature/Birch%20Ply.pdf ]the guide to birch plywood grades on James Lathams site?[/url]

kayak23 - Member

Whereabouts are you? There is a few good places all over the country so I may be able to suggest somewhere.

Thanks. I am near Peterborough, but work in Letchworth. So, I was thinking some kind of evening course near Peterborough or somewhere lik Bedford, Huntingdon etc. which are pretty much on the way home.

A fantastic thread. I've been wanting to do an evening class too, but the one round here is more Joinery based.

I've just built my MIL to be a dovecote out of the timber from my old bed and a few bits I found. I made a dovecote before for my parents (my dads a carpenter) and he gave me lots of pointers. I've got an old canvas wardrobe in my shed I'm going to turn the frame into a bird table for myself. Id upload photos but my internets broken and I'm on my phone with no 3G 🙁 if I remember I will do it over the weekend.

The clocks posted are amazing, really impressive and intriguing, No doubt with huge sentimental value too.

Elfinsafety - Member
EPS = Encapsulated PostScript as used by Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop and that. Uses vector graphics.

2D, but tbh the stuff I need is just 2-axis anyway really.

(pedant)its only 2D until you need to cut it 😀 (/pedant)

According to my other half who is also a felt tip fairy and has a Sign company supplying the trade, they can take Adobe Illustrator files and cut on their CNC Router and Laser cutter.
whether thats uses a conversion in some other software or not I couldnt tell you, but its possible within the sign trade at least

We're in Norfolk if that helps, not that far from that there London 8)

stumpy01 - Cambridge Regional College may be able to offer what you want or you could contact a furniture maker. I'll have a look to see if I can find something as I'm not to far from you.

OP - If you had taken the time to look at the links provided, you would see that illustrator files can be used it even shows you how to set up. Only SketchUp pro will import and export DXF/DWG but they do offer a trial pro version. It is primarily a 3D modelling program but like with any design program you can work around this. Autodesk now make an online AutoCAD which I think you can have a play on, whether it exports and imports I'm not sure.

tails - good shout on CRC. I used to work round the corner on the Science Park, so pretty bad not to think of it!

For exporting as a dxf, Draftsight (as I think was mentioned above) is pretty good and free to download.
There's quite a good pdf training manual that comes with it too, I think.

I have that draftsight on my computer at work although I currently use solidworks edrawings viewer. Might check out draftsight this afternoon.

Certainly CRC has the machine shop from when I did my art foundation their, maybe even a local school will offer evening courses.

tails - good call! From the CRC prospectus:

creative Woodcrafts
This is a course with structured tuition in which you will design and create your own piece of craftwork, from basic woodwork to furniture-making, framing, wood-turning, carving or toy-making

next course starts in early Jan....

introduction to Woodwork
This is a hands-on, DIY course which covers a range of woodworking skills and is suitable for adults of all abilities.

again, starts in early Jan

introduction to Handcrafted Furniture
This practical, 12-week course allows you to gain skills and some underpinning knowledge in the following areas: Safe working practices, Basic wood machining techniques, Core hand skills,
Introduction to materials technology

runs from September, so could try one of the above courses & then do this one in Sept if it's going well.

There's an open day on the 11th November, but I can't go to that as I'll be on a photography day in Kent, but there's also one on the 12th November so might go along to that.....

Wahoo - a direction!!

I am near Peterborough, but work in Letchworth

[url= http://www.moulton.ac.uk/course-category.asp?catid=9 ]Moulton College[/url] near Northampton do furniture courses and I suppose are sort of out that general way. Try them. We have links with them from our courses.

Thanks Kayak23 - they all look like full time courses? I'd be looking for some kind of evening class initially, unless I have read them wrong.

It looks like that college is about 1hr 15 from work & the same from home, so it's not out of the question, but would make it a long old day!

Stumpy01, having done a HND in furniture making and then topped that up to a BAhons in contemporary furniture design. I would recommend going on the course with the most hand skills, so hand planning, dovetailing with chisels etc.

My reasoning is at uni we had a huge workshop with planners and thicknessers, CNC routers, table saws, 10 ton veneer presses you name it they had it. I used them a lot, this matters not one jot now all I have is hand tools at home. I can't make anything and any skills I had will be very basic now.

Tools that you may be able to fit in a single garage - routing table, small band saw, pillar drill. Festools make this thing called a domino cutter that is a cross between a biscuit jointer and a mortise and tenon. You can cut a fair few joints with a router. I can't think of anything else at the mo.

If you have a barn and cash forgot the above!

What do you do now tails, you not doing woodworking then?

thanks tails.....yeah, that was what I was thinking. I want to go to the open evening to look into the course content and how much of it is hands-on fettling of stuff and how much of it isn't!

No point doing it all on fancy equipment that is only available at the college!

What do you do now tails, you not doing woodworking then?

I currently design garden buildings and used to design exhibition stands. Occasionally I'll design furniture and products for fun with a friend. He comes from an automotive and aircraft design background so the dialogue is far better than that with my current boss who is an accountant!

I would like to work in a service industry (own a hostel/cafe) and use my design knowledge to create a really good experience.

Do you work in design and making Dobbo? I'm half tempted to join stumpy01 on this woodworking course!!