Forum menu
After another frustrating motorway journey this weekend I’d like to know the correct way to proceed in the following situation please:
Driving along on a quiet motorway on the inside lane (doing 70mph of course) and I catch up with a car doing 65mph in the middle lane. Do I swing across all 3 lanes, overtake, and swing back across into the inside lane, or can I just proceed in my lane and end up undertaking the vehicle?
And would the advice change if, as is often the case, my lane on the inside is clear, the middle lane is moderately busy, and the outside lane is effectively full.
Highway Code says no undertaking, but it also says that if your lane of traffic is moving quicker than another lane then you can move past.
Driving gods to the forum...
Which country are you in?
Its all very different in the UK, USA, India, Africa, etc
Id go up the inside and give the driver that raised eyebrows of you're useless look 😉
Rule 268 has it covered
Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Except... The rules don't account for the dick head behaviour of being in the wrong lane.
The line above is when everything is moving about the same ie in proper congestion not when it's flowing.
IANATP though
I dunno, I have, in the past, undertaken a blatantly middle-laning car on a quiet motorway to see if it will "frighten" them into using the LH lane. I don't know why I bother, as they rarely pay any attention anyway. Sometimes I make a grand gesture of overtaking across the lanes then moving back into the LH lane in front of them with indicators flashing etc etc. Neither of these things appears to change the behaviour of others. People what drive in the middle whatever the traffic conditions seem pre-programmed to keep doing this and never change.
I too would love to know the correct procedure in this situation. It’s by far one of the most irritating things to encounter on the motorway.
Yeah, that’s the rule I’d read, but I don’t think it quite covers my scenario. There is no real traffic in my lane to keep up with, and as you say, I read it to be referring to congestion really, not travelling at 70mph. And I’m certainly not suggesting moving lanes to undertake.
UK motorway btw.
At different times I'd do both, depends on just how likely you feel they are to pull in on you.
And would the advice change if, as is often the case, my lane on the inside is clear, the middle lane is moderately busy, and the outside lane is effectively full.
When the road is busy then then you're fine to move with your lane - so if one of the outside lanes is slow/ stopped other lanes are free to keep moving. If you're lane is empty except for you then you are that lane of traffic.
What you have to be careful of though is although you're permitted to pass vehicles on the left in those circumstances the general etiquette is that cars pass on the right so drivers aren't looking for (and many vehicles have blindspots that can't see) cars passing them on the left.
After another frustrating motorway journey
Don't get frustrated. Drive your car to suit the conditions- try not to drive other people's cars by wishing and willing them to behave differently.
If it is "congested conditions" then the HC says you can pass on the left:
[url= https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/motorways-253-to-273 ]Rule 268[/url]
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
But if the motorway is quiet then why not just pull out to overtake? Doesn't exactly take a lot of effort and it's a lot safer.
Driving along on a quiet motorway on the inside lane (doing 70mph of course) and I catch up with a car doing 65mph in the middle lane. Do I swing across all 3 lanes, overtake, and swing back across into the inside lane, or can I just proceed in my lane and end up undertaking the vehicle?
Ok so the driver hogging the middle lane is not abiding to the highway code, but what's your issue with overtaking him on the right hand side? Is it that much of a hardship to indicate and overtake?
At different times I'd do both, depends on just how likely you feel they are to pull in on you.
If it's a motorway, you always have the Hard shoulder as your escape route, so I'd just stay in my lane and go past.
Highway Code says no undertaking, but it also says that if your lane of traffic is moving quicker than another lane then you can move past.
Answered your own question.
There is no real traffic in my lane to keep up with
Yes there is: You. You are the traffic, and if you're moving faster than the traffic in lane 2 you can therefore move past (in your lane).
Get this all the time on the A27. If it's not convenient for me to change lanes I'll stay in the left lane and pass them. Don't really give a toss what the law is - they aren't driving within the highway code anyway.
IANADG (not driving god), but IAHIOI (am highly intolerant of idiots)
tlr - Member
Yeah, that’s the rule I’d read, but I don’t think it quite covers my scenario. There is no real traffic in my lane to keep up with, and as you say, I read it to be referring to congestion really, not travelling at 70mph. And I’m certainly not suggesting moving lanes to undertake.
That would be because they don't make rules for situations where nobody is following the rules. Undertaking at speed isn't sensible really as at some point the idiot in the middle lane may get the hint and pull in.
we had to do a half day driving course with a previous employer, and my instructor (AA) said in the situation described in the OP that in the first case (motorway all clear) then you should pass on the right, but in the second she'd happily stay left and pass on the left.
She did say it might be a gamble if you were seen to do that by a police car but in her opinion, they'd be better served talking to the driver that created the situation; by not being in the left lane not only do they create the 'undertake' scenario but they're also causing half the traffic into the RH lane as well. And if stopped and talked to about it she felt it would be an attitude thing, if you were beligerent you'd get a different response to being calm and rational.
She also said that from her experiences with traffic police, they would probably follow you for a distance too before making a decision, and if you're constantly changing lanes to overtake and undertake vs sitting at a steady speed in the LH lane which means occasionally you pass a middle lane hog, that would also count in your favour.
Just drive like it's a Chechen wedding...
Driving along on a quiet motorway on the inside lane (doing 70mph of course) and I catch up with a car doing 65mph in the middle lane. Do I swing across all 3 lanes, overtake, and swing back across into the inside lane,
On a quiet motorway surely you were able to see this guy from a considerable distance away and were able to move out to lane 3 in plenty of time to pass him safely on the right without wildly swinging across all 3 lanes or undertaking?
You were only closing on him at 5 mph after all.
If you saw him from half a mile away you'd have a full 6 minutes to plan your move.
[quote=edlong ]> There is no real traffic in my lane to keep up with
Yes there is: You. You are the traffic, and if you're moving faster than the traffic in lane 2 you can therefore move past (in your lane).
That's a very.. err.. [i]novel[/i] interpretation of the rule. 😆
You, on your own, may be "traffic", but definitely not "congested conditions".
You cannot overtake on the left in these circumstances.
There should be an ‘in case of bellendery’ section added to the Highway Code that covers this sort of thing. I still think that Mrs Funks idea of a pneumatic arm that pops out of the central reservation and nudges people back in lane is the way forward 🙂
I am not a traffic cop ... each instance in its own circumstance and all that ... and others may have different opinions ...
My personal opinion is that:
If you were lane 1 and lane 2 is sitting there at a slower speed and lane hogging cause they cant drive properly, then I would understand why you remained in lane 1 *AND* didn't change your speed as you passed and then continued to progress along lane 1. To me that falls under the highway code part of different lanes moving at different speeds ( which is more for slow moving queues of traffic ). That being said, if you have the space to make the move the lane 3 and pass, then you should do that.
However, if you were lane 2, came up behind the car in lane 2 and made a move to lane 1 to undertake it and come back to lane 2, then that would be an issue in my books. Similarly, charging done lane 1 undertaking folk, then cutting in to lane 2 ... grrr ! 🙂
To me the test is whether you have taken a specific action to knowingly do an undertaking move. The 1st example isn't ... you've maintained direction and speed and its a consequence of lanes moving at different speeds. The 2nd example, you would have made a deliberate move to undertake.
All of that is subject to the speeds, other traffic etc etc etc.
Surely you would "undertake" on the left then pull into the middle lane in front of the nob, slam your flashers on and stab brake for about 200mtrs whilst gesticulating furiously ..
tjagain -
You cannot overtake on the left in these circumstances.
You can.
Don't really give a toss what the law is - they aren't driving within the highway code anyway.
Driving logic. 😆
I'm ex-traffic, but managed to escape a few years ago.
The undertake would be technically illegal and in breach of the highway code, but coming across drivers like these is very frustrating. I stopped a newly qualified driver for doing just this - she claimed that her driving instructor had told her not to use lane 1 as it was for LGVs...
Two potential risks to the undertake - a tug from a Traffic Officer, but they are thin on the ground and would be better dealing with the lane 2 hog; and the other driver pulling into lane 1 when you are on their nearside and the subsequent complications (and blame) during an insurance claim. For the second reason I will move across onto lane 3 and give them a friendly toot as I pass back into lane 1.
dezb Nope - read the rules again. Traffic moving slowly / congestion is for city streets not motorways. any undertaking on motorways is illegal. I have seen people being done for it.
edit - confirmed by an ex trafffic cop now
What's the rule if you are towing and can't use lane 3?
Towing - You use lane 2 and wait for them to pull over.
tjagain - Member
dezb Nope - read the rules again. Traffic moving slowly / congestion is for city streets not motorways. any undertaking on motorways is illegal.
TJ read the rule, it's from the motorway section of the highway code it's for when the mway os crawling where changing lanes would add to congestion and reduce flow.
What's the rule if you are towing and can't use lane 3?
That you shouldn't be going fast enough to catch up with the guy who's doing 65 mph?
Cheers Siwhite, that sounds like an actual answer from an actual horse’s mouth.
I'd usually move out to pass and then back in to the inside lane again to passive-aggressively make the point, but yesterday there were so many ****s driving at 60mph in lane 3 of 4 that I just stayed in lane 2 to pass a couple of them.
I'm not saying it's right (I'm pretty sure it's not), but sometimes you just CBA.
Not true, there is no specific law against it. If a policeman sees you doing it & considers it dangerous, then that will be why people are getting done. I certainly wouldn't be trusting 100% the judgement of an (ex) policeman on legal matters though, have met plenty who have only a vague understanding of the law at best. 🙂any undertaking on motorways is illegal. I have seen people being done for it.
That said, there's always a risk when undertaking as if people are dozy enough to drive in the middle lane, they'll probably pull over to the left without looking at the worst possible moment, so personally I (almost) always would go around on the right.
Ye - ie congested and slow. Not 70 mph. See the ex traffic cops view on this. If the motorway is at a standstill or very slow and congested you can overtake on the left. at 70 mph you cannot
Towing!
Ahhh the classic Caravan 70mph lane 3 overtake manoeuvre ...
Down here its hilarious, and they wonder why they get a blast from horns...
[i]dezb Nope - read the rules again. Traffic moving slowly / congestion is for city streets not motorways. any undertaking on motorways is illegal. I have seen people being done for it.[/i]
Read my previous post (again) 😉
The A27 is rife with middle laners, whether it's busy or not. I must've gone past 100s on the left and I don't drive that much. So.... you can.
[img] 
[/img]
a friendly toot
😆 oh, yeah! The official friendly toot - all drivers recognise that one!
That you shouldn't be going fast enough to catch up with the guy who's doing 65 mph?
What if they're doing 55?
There were a lot doing '55' on the M5/A417 last night and I can't be arsed pulling over three lanes towing the boat any more than I can be arsed to add on more time to the journey playing along with their rolling road block game.
10 yrs as a TP. Just do what we do, stick our Neeee Naaaw sirens on and hurtle past at 120mph on the outside lane in my big X5.
Simples....
I am not joking.. :}
So we are playing the I want to undertake time to come up with a set of reasons why I'll do what I shouldn't...
Undertake and if pulled pass the attitude test and all is fine.
You cannot overtake on the left in these circumstances.
You can.
I think it's the quality of debate that keeps bringing me back here. 😉
As a professional I refuse to be drawn into this ....
I think it's the quality of debate that keeps bringing me back here.
No it isn't. 😉
That you shouldn't be going fast enough to catch up with the guy who's doing 65 mph?
True, Sorry I mean't if they were going slower than 60. I assume you just sit and wait for them to move over
It's behind you.
It's behind you.
...approaching fast on your left.
On the M1 there's frequently people sat in Lane 3 (of 4) doing 65mph whilst 1 & 2 are completely empty. I know technically I should be moving out of lane 1, all the way across to 4 to go past but I just carry on in lane 1.
Yes there is: You. You are the traffic, and if you're moving faster than the traffic in lane 2 you can therefore move past (in your lane).
So, under what circumstances would you not be allowed to undertake?
I also note that the OP asked for advice from traffic cops, and there doesn't seem to be many of them in the last two pages of replies.
[i]I think it's the quality of debate that keeps bringing me back here[/i]
Takes years of practice 😀
I also note that the OP asked for advice from traffic cops, and there doesn't seem to be many of them in the last two pages of replies.
New.. etc..?
So, under what circumstances would you not be allowed to undertake?
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Traffic/Congestion is when all lanes are moving about the same speed and the natural flow makes you need to pass on the wrong side.
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
As above, trafffic congestion [ie, average speed cameras, lanes travelling within the similar average speed]
If it was as the OP suggests then an offence[driving w/out due care] occurs.
You would then have the [dis]pleasure of 10 minutes in a fart filled police vehicle. :} :}
Marin - Member
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
For undertaking, overtaking or arguing?
On a quiet motorway surely you were able to see this guy from a considerable distance away and were able to move out to lane 3 in plenty of time to pass him safely on the right without wildly swinging across all 3 lanes or undertaking?
In the Op's situation this is all you need to know. It's what good drivers do automatically. I've never got this angst about middle lane hoggers, yes their a minor irritation but just use the outside lane and overtake them.
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Very much this. I thought it was a very simple rule to interpret. In the OP's first scenario undertaking would be illegal.
I'm surprised this is confusing so many people.
Interested to know - those who (truthfully) say that they've seen people pulled over for this undertaking (non)manoeuvre - have you ever seen anyone pulled over for middle lane hogging? Cos I haven't. Not never ever.
All three for you Mike.
just pull out.
my logic is that if someone is a numptying along like that, they're probably also a bad enough driver to pull over to the left without looking or indicating. I don't much fancy that gamble.
That said, I will undertake if I have a clear lane in between us, as happened at the weekend. Bloke in the fast lane doing 65, nothing in middle lane at all 😆
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
Cunning, their quota is down so they get a friend to give bad advice on the internet. Problem solved.
Marin - Member
All three for you Mike.
So what does your friend say is wrong with overtaking?
Interested to know - those who (truthfully) say that they've seen people pulled over for this undertaking (non)manoeuvre - have you ever seen anyone pulled over for middle lane hogging? Cos I haven't. Not never ever
Yes, a few times for both. Always on the M74 between Gretna and Abington. I drive this stretch of motorway a lot and rarely make the journey without seeing a traffic car and / or a camera van.
Few years ago, I undertook on a fairly busy motorway, where middle lane traffic was very heavy, but no-one using the slow lane.
I had overtaken about twenty cars,doing about 10mph faster when a middle lane hog saw me coming & deliberately chopped across me (and braked) without indicating.
Suddenly the blue lights ( of an unmarked police car ) come on behind.
Ohhhh Shiiiiip.
I pulled over onto hard shoulder, but the police driver just drove past and pulled over the other driver and last thing I saw in rear view mirror was the other driver getting a proper bollocking.
So yep, under passing ok as long as in streams of traffic and speed differences not to great.
**makes a note of all of you lot for future reference **
I thought it was a very simple rule to interpret. In the OP's first scenario undertaking would be illegal.
No. In and of itself, undertaking is not illegal.
If you get pulled for it then you might get accused of "driving without due care" or some such, but there is no specific law which prevents passing on the left.
[i]Yes, a few times for both. Always on the M74[/i]
Yeah, I think the A27 is a law unto itself. Bit like the M25. You fellas should pop down and have a go on it. It'd be an eye-opener I'm sure. 😉
driving without due care
Ive always wanted to get pulled and for "driving without due care" and to respond saying "Rubbish, it takes lots of care to keep this thing on the racing line!". I reckon it would get me off.
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Traffic/Congestion is when all lanes are moving about the same speed and the natural flow makes you need to pass on the wrong side.
Does it define congestion?
OED: congested: adj. [i](of a road or place) so crowded with traffic or people as to hinder or prevent freedom of movement.[/i]
Congestion could be someone in the middle lane doing 60 preventing anyone else doing 70 in the first lane.
In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds,
It gives parameters
And there was me thinking I’d get a quick, straight answer on here.....
I’d certainly agree that in the first scenario the best and least contentious practice would be to pull over to the outside lane, overtake and then return to the lady lane.
In the other scenario though you would have to pull into the middle lane, slow to the middle lane drivers speed, wait for a gap in the outside lane, move into it, overtake and then move back into the last lane. This is more ‘dangerous’.
And for a final scenario, what about if the outside lane is also only doing 65mph, due to volume of traffic forced out there by the middle lane driver, but the inside lane is clear for hundreds of yards. Can you then legally keep doing 70mph and undertake both lanes of traffic, do you slow to 65mph and not undertake, or do you trg and join the outside lane of traffic adding to the problem?
This final situation seems very common, even on busy motorways.
"Rubbish, it takes lots of care to keep this thing on the racing line!". I reckon it would get me off.
That's the same reason why I always drive really quickly down the middle of the road, straddling both lanes.
It clearly says on the paper bit of my old driving licence "Tear along dotted line"
I'm less concerned about getting a ticket than not being hit.
We're taught to check our mirrors before pulling out, but I don't think many people check them before pulling in. I think many people who've stayed out after an overtake would suddenly realise they should've pulled back in and then do so. They probably won't look in their mirrors to do so. No-one expects to be undertaken do they? That's why it's not allowed because it's dangerous.
I usually come up behind and flash my lights. 8 times out of 10 they realise what they're doing and pull back in.
"Tear along dotted line"
The oldies are...uh...old.
And for a final scenario, what about if the outside lane is also only doing 65mph, due to volume of traffic forced out there by the middle lane driver, but the inside lane is clear for hundreds of yards. Can you then legally keep doing 70mph and undertake both lanes of traffic, do you slow to 65mph and not undertake, or do you trg and join the outside lane of traffic adding to the problem?This final situation seems very common, even on busy motorways.
Oh yes. Best course of action is probably to whizz up lane 2 and ram the offending vehicle.
The oldies are...uh...old.
Keepin' the classics alive.
And there was me thinking I’d get a quick, straight answer on here.....
That's adorable in it's naivety.
I am going for 11 pages, 2 flounces, a divorce, one offer of a fight down the swings and a new species of gastropod being discovered.
No. In and of itself, undertaking is not illegal.If you get pulled for it then you might get accused of "driving without due care" or some such, but there is no specific law which prevents passing on the left.
Splitting hairs here methinks - if the act of undertaking was deemed to be driving without due and attention, and hence illegal, then it should not have been done.
But I see your point.