I think it's the quality of debate that keeps bringing me back here.
No it isn't. 😉
That you shouldn't be going fast enough to catch up with the guy who's doing 65 mph?
True, Sorry I mean't if they were going slower than 60. I assume you just sit and wait for them to move over
It's behind you.
It's behind you.
...approaching fast on your left.
On the M1 there's frequently people sat in Lane 3 (of 4) doing 65mph whilst 1 & 2 are completely empty. I know technically I should be moving out of lane 1, all the way across to 4 to go past but I just carry on in lane 1.
Yes there is: You. You are the traffic, and if you're moving faster than the traffic in lane 2 you can therefore move past (in your lane).
So, under what circumstances would you not be allowed to undertake?
I also note that the OP asked for advice from traffic cops, and there doesn't seem to be many of them in the last two pages of replies.
[i]I think it's the quality of debate that keeps bringing me back here[/i]
Takes years of practice 😀
I also note that the OP asked for advice from traffic cops, and there doesn't seem to be many of them in the last two pages of replies.
New.. etc..?
So, under what circumstances would you not be allowed to undertake?
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Traffic/Congestion is when all lanes are moving about the same speed and the natural flow makes you need to pass on the wrong side.
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
As above, trafffic congestion [ie, average speed cameras, lanes travelling within the similar average speed]
If it was as the OP suggests then an offence[driving w/out due care] occurs.
You would then have the [dis]pleasure of 10 minutes in a fart filled police vehicle. :} :}
Marin - Member
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
For undertaking, overtaking or arguing?
On a quiet motorway surely you were able to see this guy from a considerable distance away and were able to move out to lane 3 in plenty of time to pass him safely on the right without wildly swinging across all 3 lanes or undertaking?
In the Op's situation this is all you need to know. It's what good drivers do automatically. I've never got this angst about middle lane hoggers, yes their a minor irritation but just use the outside lane and overtake them.
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Very much this. I thought it was a very simple rule to interpret. In the OP's first scenario undertaking would be illegal.
I'm surprised this is confusing so many people.
Interested to know - those who (truthfully) say that they've seen people pulled over for this undertaking (non)manoeuvre - have you ever seen anyone pulled over for middle lane hogging? Cos I haven't. Not never ever.
All three for you Mike.
just pull out.
my logic is that if someone is a numptying along like that, they're probably also a bad enough driver to pull over to the left without looking or indicating. I don't much fancy that gamble.
That said, I will undertake if I have a clear lane in between us, as happened at the weekend. Bloke in the fast lane doing 65, nothing in middle lane at all 😆
My advice comes straight from a traffic cop. Most people on here would get a ticket.
Cunning, their quota is down so they get a friend to give bad advice on the internet. Problem solved.
Marin - Member
All three for you Mike.
So what does your friend say is wrong with overtaking?
Interested to know - those who (truthfully) say that they've seen people pulled over for this undertaking (non)manoeuvre - have you ever seen anyone pulled over for middle lane hogging? Cos I haven't. Not never ever
Yes, a few times for both. Always on the M74 between Gretna and Abington. I drive this stretch of motorway a lot and rarely make the journey without seeing a traffic car and / or a camera van.
Few years ago, I undertook on a fairly busy motorway, where middle lane traffic was very heavy, but no-one using the slow lane.
I had overtaken about twenty cars,doing about 10mph faster when a middle lane hog saw me coming & deliberately chopped across me (and braked) without indicating.
Suddenly the blue lights ( of an unmarked police car ) come on behind.
Ohhhh Shiiiiip.
I pulled over onto hard shoulder, but the police driver just drove past and pulled over the other driver and last thing I saw in rear view mirror was the other driver getting a proper bollocking.
So yep, under passing ok as long as in streams of traffic and speed differences not to great.
**makes a note of all of you lot for future reference **
I thought it was a very simple rule to interpret. In the OP's first scenario undertaking would be illegal.
No. In and of itself, undertaking is not illegal.
If you get pulled for it then you might get accused of "driving without due care" or some such, but there is no specific law which prevents passing on the left.
[i]Yes, a few times for both. Always on the M74[/i]
Yeah, I think the A27 is a law unto itself. Bit like the M25. You fellas should pop down and have a go on it. It'd be an eye-opener I'm sure. 😉
driving without due care
Ive always wanted to get pulled and for "driving without due care" and to respond saying "Rubbish, it takes lots of care to keep this thing on the racing line!". I reckon it would get me off.
The HC rule is fairly clear (unless you want to read it in a way that makes it not...
Traffic/Congestion is when all lanes are moving about the same speed and the natural flow makes you need to pass on the wrong side.
Does it define congestion?
OED: congested: adj. [i](of a road or place) so crowded with traffic or people as to hinder or prevent freedom of movement.[/i]
Congestion could be someone in the middle lane doing 60 preventing anyone else doing 70 in the first lane.
In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds,
It gives parameters
And there was me thinking I’d get a quick, straight answer on here.....
I’d certainly agree that in the first scenario the best and least contentious practice would be to pull over to the outside lane, overtake and then return to the lady lane.
In the other scenario though you would have to pull into the middle lane, slow to the middle lane drivers speed, wait for a gap in the outside lane, move into it, overtake and then move back into the last lane. This is more ‘dangerous’.
And for a final scenario, what about if the outside lane is also only doing 65mph, due to volume of traffic forced out there by the middle lane driver, but the inside lane is clear for hundreds of yards. Can you then legally keep doing 70mph and undertake both lanes of traffic, do you slow to 65mph and not undertake, or do you trg and join the outside lane of traffic adding to the problem?
This final situation seems very common, even on busy motorways.
"Rubbish, it takes lots of care to keep this thing on the racing line!". I reckon it would get me off.
That's the same reason why I always drive really quickly down the middle of the road, straddling both lanes.
It clearly says on the paper bit of my old driving licence "Tear along dotted line"
I'm less concerned about getting a ticket than not being hit.
We're taught to check our mirrors before pulling out, but I don't think many people check them before pulling in. I think many people who've stayed out after an overtake would suddenly realise they should've pulled back in and then do so. They probably won't look in their mirrors to do so. No-one expects to be undertaken do they? That's why it's not allowed because it's dangerous.
I usually come up behind and flash my lights. 8 times out of 10 they realise what they're doing and pull back in.
"Tear along dotted line"
The oldies are...uh...old.
And for a final scenario, what about if the outside lane is also only doing 65mph, due to volume of traffic forced out there by the middle lane driver, but the inside lane is clear for hundreds of yards. Can you then legally keep doing 70mph and undertake both lanes of traffic, do you slow to 65mph and not undertake, or do you trg and join the outside lane of traffic adding to the problem?This final situation seems very common, even on busy motorways.
Oh yes. Best course of action is probably to whizz up lane 2 and ram the offending vehicle.
The oldies are...uh...old.
Keepin' the classics alive.
And there was me thinking I’d get a quick, straight answer on here.....
That's adorable in it's naivety.
I am going for 11 pages, 2 flounces, a divorce, one offer of a fight down the swings and a new species of gastropod being discovered.
No. In and of itself, undertaking is not illegal.If you get pulled for it then you might get accused of "driving without due care" or some such, but there is no specific law which prevents passing on the left.
Splitting hairs here methinks - if the act of undertaking was deemed to be driving without due and attention, and hence illegal, then it should not have been done.
But I see your point.
a new species of gastropod being discovered.
Three points and a hundred squid find?
Interested to know - those who (truthfully) say that they've seen people pulled over for this undertaking (non)manoeuvre - have you ever seen anyone pulled over for middle lane hogging? Cos I haven't. Not never ever
Thats terribly difficult to give a true answer for.. Plenty of times we've all seen folks that have been pulled over on the hard shoulder, difficult to know exactly what for unless you stop your self and go ask them..
So not really any kind of evidence seeking.
I'll also dive in with any Motorway that has 4 lanes, for now it seems lanes 1&2 are distinctly left for HGV's playing kiss chase with each other and 3&4 left for cars to use.. This brings other conflicts and usage issues into focus.
If Lanes 3&4 are going slower than 1&2 is common for Trucks to simply rattle on through at their designated speed and undertake all 3&4 slow moving vehicles, fine the Law says thats ok.. so thats what I do.. I hunker down on lanes 1&2 and pass all the 3&4 lane joggers... However, most 4 lane motorways are controlled by "smart" cameras dn are monitored by CCTV that controls and records the movements.. my question is whilst undertaking in sparcely populated motorways you surely can be "caught" and prosecuted for "undertaking" vehicles.. yet we hear nothing to this effect, no one has yet fess'ed up and said "I've been caught undertaking" therefore I think this issue the OP has brought up is an acceptable way of dealing with middle lane hoggers..
Provided you have room and the conditions dictate then its acceptable to undertake.
He said gastropod. More likely to be found driving sluggishly at a snails pace in the outside lane.
Three points and a hundred squid find?
He said gastropod. More likely to be found driving sluggishly at a snails pace in the outside lane
[img] 
[/img]
He said gastropod.
I know but it was close enough for the gag. 's all a load of molluscs innit.
jeez some of us need to find some work to do.... 😀
[i] because it's dangerous[/i]
Can't agree with that.. All the dozy idiots I've gone past on the left have had no intention of changing lanes, even after they've been passed by me and any number of other cars they don't move over. It's as safe as if there's a brick wall between the 2 lanes.
Can't agree with that.. All the dozy idiots I've gone past on the left have had no intention of changing
[img]
[/img]There is always the first
I usually come up behind and flash my lights. 8 times out of 10 they realise what they're doing and pull back in.
... and then as soon as you've passed, pull straight back out into the middle lane again.
if the act of undertaking was deemed to be driving without due and attention,
[b]If.[/b]
no one has yet fess'ed up and said "I've been caught undertaking"
There's a good reason for that.
All the dozy idiots I've gone past on the left have had no intention of changing
Quite. I figure, by the time they've seen me I'll be half a mile in front of them anyway.
