Is that it? FFS. That IS the same as being paid nothing.
I think they want people who like having their legs blown off by IEDs and then being abandoned, rather than people who are just in it for the money.....
It is even actively encouraged for employers to engage with the MoD:
I wonder how many actually do though....
This is exactly what's happening in fact. Should be interesting.
They need to [i]significantly[/i] increase the training budgets. It wasn't so long ago that the govt tried to crush the TA; severely limited MTDs (are they still limited?), and a whole month off wasn't it?
My memory was generally rushed (and resulting poor quality) training, and that was in a very well regarded unit.
At the end of the day, the TA are a lot better and experienced than they ever were before but most will freely admit that they're no substitute for full time professionals (which is how they're being shaped).
I wonder how many actually do though....
I have no idea at all, but this might be of use to you:
[url= http://www.sabre.mod.uk/Employers/Supportive-Employers/Employers-who-have-publicly-pledged-their-support#.UgkKzaz3Pb8 ]http://www.sabre.mod.uk/Employers/Supportive-Employers/Employers-who-have-publicly-pledged-their-support#.UgkKzaz3Pb8[/url]
most will freely admit that they're no substitute for full time professionals (which is how they're being shaped)
I'd counter that. Most with recent operational experience will say that there are good and bad in every Unit in the Armed Forces, and the good Reservists who have been on ops are as good as their oppos. Many seem to prefer having augmentees in the regular Unit than deploying reserve Formed Units. This seems to bring out the best in people and ensure that the integration of FT and PT starts erly in the work up training.
and the good Reservists who have been on ops are as good as their oppos.
That's a bold statement!
Not my experience, and "are" should be substituted for "were". Once not doing the job 7 days/week and going back part time, skillfade sets in very quickly. You also generally find that the TA bods don't do as many tours, and who can blame them with a 18 month turn around? They have their family and proper jobs to think about.
Many seem to prefer having augmentees in the regular Unit than deploying reserve Formed Units.
This is also done to bring them on a bit.
I stand by my comment; they're no substitute for full time professionals. They're just not.
Job protection, yes we've all heard about that in the TA.... Sabre are effing useless when it comes to support and dispute. I seem to remember coming off tour wit my middle management job turned into middle toilets cleaning to teach me a lesson, don't worry though I got the company back by slicing their maarket share at a competitor....
A friend of mine was recently selected for redundancy after 15 years, 3 days before his in service pension date... Then invited to join the reserves recently. You can imagine his response I'm sure
In that 15 years he'd pretty much done nothing other than fight in yer actual shooty foreign wars.
they're no substitute for full time professionals. They're just not.
That's a bold statement given the breadth of roles across the Armed Forces. In some areas they are worse, some are equal and some are better. You also have Sponsored Reservists in certain areas who do the same job, just pull a uniform on when needed.
Workup training has been very mission and theatre-specific for a long time now. It also starts very early to ensure everyone is at the same speed. Having attended several post-deployment conferences at Sandhurst over a few turns of the HERRICK handle, I found the regulars of all ranks mostly singing the praises of their augmentees.
That's a bold statement given the breadth of roles across the Armed Forces.
Actually, you're correct there. It's entirely possible that your RAF experiences are different to mine (army). I'd take what the sandhurst hossifers say with a pinch though 😀
I spent the last 3.5 years working for Land Equipment and talking to the Brown Jobs. It was an eye-opener. However, it did mean I worked on a daily basis with those suppporting the teeth arms.
The conferences were held at Sandhurst and those talking were troops just rotating back from AFG, every rank represented. We spent more time talking to those with 3 stripes and less because we knew where truths would come from.
Just to clear up the pay thing - when you are training or on annual camp etc you will get roughly the same pay as a regular soldier of the same rank. If you are mobilised for ops then the MOD will match your civilian pay (up to £250k a year) plus you get you tax free tour bonus of around £5k I think it is.
Not convinced on the pay still. If Rockhopper is right then:
Option (A) get paid the same as I do now for being shot at, bombed etc (oh, but with a 5k bonus) and with diminished career prospects when I come back from 'ops' because of the time spent away from work as against my 'colleagues' who stayed here and maintained their contacts etc.
OR
Option (B) get paid the same as I do now, don't get shot at/bombed and maintain career prospects. But no 5k bonus.
Now I put it like that, I'm sold 😕
Now I put it like that, I'm sold
It's OK. Your country needs you to stay in sales.
The Armed Forces, in whatever guise, are not for everyone.
Just not getting what the incentive to sign up is?
Well you do get to play with guns....
Just not getting what the incentive to sign up is?
Fair enough. Some probably wouldn't understand what you get from your job / lifestyle. Like I said, it isn't for everyone.
Yes you get to travel- Who are we invading next?
Free travel and guns, what's not too like.
Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....
Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....
Jest yee not, good sir.
Sadly the otherside also has guns!guns
Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....
At somepoint in the future the [s]Army[/s] a Politician will deem that if you are not on operations you should be classed as 'on standby' and paid half your basic wages.
Travelling to and from a conflict will be taken out of any annual leave you have due.
Bonuses will be paid for each kill and if you lose a leg you may be required to leave ASAP.
(Its only a few steps away from now).
Zero hours soldiering 😆
Hora - have you ever thought of a career in a Westminster Think Tank? Seriously, they'd love you with suggestions like that 😉
Binners, ever fire a gun?
Jesus they are thoroughly scary things 😯
The Armed Forces arent for everyone.
You either get it or you don't & never the twain shall meet.
Arguing over it is like a broken pencil.
Agreed!. I used to do a lot of target shooting
You've got to have plums like water melons to be at the wrong end of the ones in the hands of beardy, shouty, explodey, Allah-obsessed nut-jobs 😯
We used to take turns revolving/changing the targets in a deep trench at the end of a range where we were firing .303's. I remember then thinking 'oo this is a bit hairy' and they weren't shooting at [i]us[/i].
The Armed Forces arent for everyone.You either get it or you don't & never the twain shall meet.
Arguing over it is like a broken pencil.
I've suffered from severe Migraines since the age of 15. If my son wants to join do you think in any shape or form I'd stop him? No. It is going to be one box that I wanted to tick that I never will have.
Am I too late to say I really REALLY hate Tony ****ing Blair.
It's never too late to hate Tony Blair!
No you will never be too late.
Don't diss Saint Tony. He's continuing on his life's work. Just like God told him too. Bringing peace to the Middle East.
And after a slightly bumpy start, with the whole 'invading everywhere because George said so' thing, I think we can all agree its all now going really well. The whole region is like a sea of tranquility
and hes not rich at all, hes living a saintly existence.
Bringing peace to the Middle East.
I assume 'bringing peace' is a euphemism for continuing the Good fight / Crusade to rid the world of the Arabs....
S'OK - Davey C worships the hallowed ground he walks on.
We're in safe hands. 🙂
I've put all my money into a savings account, my son can have it when he's 25 IF he doesn't have anything to do with any armed forces. I'm hoping that greed will keep him on my side.
Chap at work has been in Helmand this year trying to help build water infrastructure as part of the reservists. Everytime they build something that will bring any benefit to the locals it gets blown up and they get shot at, it's a spectacular waste of life, effort and money.
I've put all my money into a savings account, my son can have it when he's 25 IF he doesn't have anything to do with any armed forces.
If he's that easily persuaded, he's probably not made of the right stuff anyway.
I quite like pictonroad's ruse!
You based in South Liverpool by any chance, PR?
If he's that easily persuaded, he's probably not made of the right stuff anyway.
Why though? I know you are reacting to a rise but it can turn out to be a trudge/a plod for most or a brilliant and varied career.
How many really are combat troops?
How many end up digging ditches, 'guarding', driving and cooking food?
Imagine sat on the Falklands bored out of your tree for a stint being told when to go out, when to get up, when to go to sleep when to wash and when to talk (at times).
Yes you get to travel but with the government putting more and more squeezes on the services is it what it used to be?
I'm firmly a 'patriot' BTW. 🙂
I know you are reacting to a rise but it can turn out to be a trudge/a plod for most or a brilliant and varied career.
I'm not biting, I'm making an observation. People don't join the army to get rich. If young pictonroad fancies some fast cash rather than an active life of soldiering, then he's the wrong sort for military service.
How many end up digging ditches, 'guarding', driving and cooking food?
At some point, pretty much all soldiers will dig trenches, guard and drive. You seem to present these as mundane risk free tasks; if you're digging a battle trench or guarding, there's a reason/something to guard. The front line does not consist of pure infanteers you know. RAF regt aside, most will go out of the wire at Bastion during a Afg tour.
most will go out of the wire at Bastion during a Afg tour.
Can't be good for the nerves. Chapeau.
How many really are combat troops?
From my (poor) memory, about 20-25% will be teeth, the rest are supporting them. I think the HERRICK that 3 PARA were out (2006?) 3k troops provided about 650 fighting men.
It takes a lot to put people on the front line and a lot of those roles (logistics, signals, medical, etc, etc) can and are filled with reservists.
Non-teeth does not mean non-fighting. Engineers, Gunners, RLC, Sigs all patrol and contribute in contact as well as perform their normal duties (bomb disposal, explosives, driving, search, comms etc etc).
So, whilst only 25 odd % may be infantry capbadged, they are by no means the only ones on the front lines using their weapons.
I was a combat medic in the TA, I'm a Paramedic on civvy street. I did it because I'm good at my job and wanted to test my skills in a hard environment and actually use some of my training rather than focussing on nan down's and minor injuries. I learnt some new skills that apply to my current job, some new skills that I'd never have thought about before (I'm pretty handy at plumbing now) and met some interesting people. Crap knees stopped me getting deployed and I regret that. I'd sign up again but I've a wife and family now and I'm not sure they'd appreciate me going off for a 12 month deployment.
If I go office based in my current role I may sign up again and look into a training role rather than deployment.
If its not for you, then fair enough. I always wanted to be a soldier as a kid and as an adult was always looking for new, interesting experiences. Statistically more cyclists die on UK roads than Combat medics getting killed in Afg... so its probably safer out there as well!
I guess much depends on the trade. There's a lot of TA medics and nurses where I work & many of them have rotated thru Bastion - it seems to me (as a civilian) that they bring much the same attitude to everything they do.
I know I'd want 'em looking after me, that's for sure.
(Not that this necessarily justifies MOD policy...).
RAF regt aside, most will go out of the wire at Bastion during a Afg tour.
😆
From my (poor) memory, about 20-25% will be teeth, the rest are supporting them. I think the HERRICK that 3 PARA were out (2006?) 3k troops provided about 650 fighting men.
IIRC during WW2 the average frontline American had 11 people supporting him though the supply chain.
Non-teeth does not mean non-fighting. Engineers, Gunners, RLC, Sigs all patrol and contribute in contact
Wrecker, absolutely. I know a lot of people in the Signals that have done just that, including some from my own group. My point was just to try and relate the rough ratio of infantry soldiers to support troops.
