[Closed] Any Mac Experts Here??

It largely depends on your use case.

But given the general longevity of Mac’s and that the memory is not upgradable I would if it was me.

I would say it is. As software evolves it only ever demands more from the hardware and assuming it’s not possible it easy to upgrade RAM later on then better to do it now. I’ve always noticed an improvement whenever I’ve upgraded RAM not just in boot up and shut down time but in the general smoothness and running of the machine and I don’t run any demanding software so if you did you’d notice it there too.

Slightly off topic but if Mac's have greater longevity than a PC then what is the expected lifespan of each?

Slightly off topic but if Mac’s have greater longevity than a PC then what is the expected lifespan of each?

They don't, that's a myth. Pay Mac money for a PC and it'll last as long or longer. I bought my laptop in 2008.

In the corporate world I'd expect a tech refresh maybe every 3-5 years?

Probably. Though my SO gets on fine with 8GB. Double the hard drive too if you can.

Agree with pretty green parrot, the M1 macs have amazing performance with 8gb, the money’s better spent on increasing the storage as that can fill pretty quickly and they only have two USB ports.

Our work has the same refresh cycle for both Mac and PC.

Macs often last longer than PCs because there is no such thing as a cheap Mac*, however there are loads of cheap PCs which do fail because they're cheap.

* You may or may not think this is a good thing.

I think the rapid requirements for extra memory are over (assuming general use rather than video editing etc.)

Not sure about Macs lasting longer than PCs - typing this from my 7 year old Lenovo Ideapad. I'll probably replace it with a MacBook when it dies though.

The Mac Lifespan seems to be around 10 years. This is usually the point at which the software can not be updated to the latest OS as the hardware is not up to the job of running it. At this point there's usually around 2 years of security updates to allow for banking to do its job. After that you're on your own and the security risks increase as the years pass.
My G5 PowerMac tower ran for 15 years before dodgy RAM socket soldering saw it recycled. The latest Mac mini is now 9 and may need to be refreshed to allow for secure banking at home to continue.
(Yes encrypted comms to the bank are still possible but the chances of slippery bank staff telling us that our lost money is due to a poorly secured OS and they're not going to refund is not worth the trouble).

They don’t, that’s a myth. Pay Mac money for a PC and it’ll last as long or longer. I bought my laptop in 2008.

This is certainly true for on paper hardware spec's, but I think there are differences in the operating systems, i.e. windows vs Mac OS, that matter over time. I think Mac OS just seems to be less demanding and far simpler than Windows, so on older machines, even if you've upgraded the hardware (usual SSD/RAM upgrades) Macs seem to do better.

A case in point (I know sample size of 1 etc.) I've just resurrected my dads mid 2011 iMac with a new SSD and more RAM and cloned my 2017 iMac HDD to get it running and it honestly runs as well as my 2017 iMac. Similarly tried to get a new lease of life out of my daughters 5 year old HP laptop by SSD upgrade and it didn't really works. Was a BOS before I upgraded the HDD and even with an SSD and fresh Windows install its still running crap. That has to be down to the software. Now it may be the case if I were a bit of a computer nerd then I could get into the guts of Windows and mess around with a bunch of settings and fanny about alot and get it running sweet. But the point is I have not needed to do that with the Mac. Just plug and play and you're away. Dad's 2011 iMac will go on to provide many years of useful work but daughters laptop is going to the tip.

Ram, I would upgrade it if possible.. the demands on the machine are only increasing and its a bit of a future proof thing. Dropbox etc can increase storage so I would do the ram in preference.

Pay Mac money for a PC and it’ll last as long or longer.

This is about the size of it. Macs are made with premium materials, for a premium price. There are premium priced PCs out there too, which are (often) also very good.

My 2015 Mac laptop is still going strong (hasn't been upgraded) and although the world of music tech software is starting to overtake it, I expect it to be fine for general internet /light work duties for a good few years yet.

Interesting thoughts, I have a 2008 MacBook that had the constant beach ball of death and trackpad issues well before 10 years of light use. I was wondering whether it was worth trying to fix as I rarely use a computer outside of work so it's not worth me buying something.

Is it worth paying the extra £200 to upgrade from 8gb ram to 16gb?

Definitely yes, I've got the base model 8gb, I'll be selling it at some point and probably going pro and 16gb. (though might just go air with 16 and larger HD, do like the fanless and I don't really touch max on the processor)

8gb, is the obvious bottleneck in the system if you use multiple apps.

Depends what you are doing with it obviously, but if you are going to be using indesign/illy/photoshop/lightroom/premier. defo get 16gb and the pro if you can afford it.

The 8gb air is well usable, but it's always in the orange/red on the memory pressure for me the way I work computers. (ie everything open and constantly switching between.)

Other than that it's a really nice machine. battery I get about 9-12 hours on it unplugged with solid usage, with no degradation in performance. I think the pro will get you about 20 hours if that's important to you.

Same here; 8gb MBP, M1. The add'l 8Gb is definitely worth it, I would have bought the 16Gb model if I could have found one in stock. Go 16.

Max out the RAM if you can, as others note it's not really upgradeable.

My iMac is now 12yrs old and I'm a couple of OS iterations off the curve. This is now having knock-on effects with more recent software updates not being usable (or indeed installable).

Macs and PCs all use pretty much the same components, it's just that Apple tend to use a small selection that they know will work together and also have high MTBF. Buy a PC to the same spec and it's likely to last as long and cost similar to a Mac. I've not used later versions of Windows but I used to do an annual reformat and reinstall to make sure things kept running smoothly (I partitioned the disk into OS, personal and installed software partitions) so the reformat of drive C just blatted the OS.

Did I dream it or is there some chat that the M1 machines run well with relatively low memory because of some special voodoo on the motherboard? Or is that just an iPhone vs Android thing?

If you want futureproofing then the pc wins hand down.

APPLE deliberately remove older features in macos on a regular basis.

I bought an imac I think about 18 months ago. When I bought it macs could run 32 bit software.

AN OS update just 2 weeks later removed all support for 32bit software and it now only runs 64 bit apps.

Fine if you only run the latest apps. A big problem if you run older software which is never likely to be updated. - very common in my industry.

I was also annoyed find that apple had deliberately removed the feature that let you use imacs as a monitor for a pc or games console.

Im looking at a similar decision only Im interested in the Mac mini as I dont need portability. From what I have read its worth getting the extra RAM but not the extra SSD because you can thunderbolt extra SSD on later if needed. I dont know if thats an option with the air

Pay Mac money for a PC and it’ll last as long or longer

what is the expected lifespan of each?

Typing this on my mid-2012 MBP. 256 SSD and 16GB quad i7. Bought used two years ago. I've just updated it to Catalina and that's where it will stay. Looking now, I'g get the same 2015 modelwithouga DVD ROM. About £750 for a mint one. The new ones have been slated for keyboard (now fixed), lack of ports (coming) and the funny volume smart slider ( I like dedicated keys - also coming allegedly).

The M1's look very fast, but I want to run a virtual LINUX machine and I don't think that VMWare have updated yet.

@TiRed the latest Linux Kernel is supposed to be M1 compatible.

Can you imagine being able to afford a Mac, but buying a PC instead

I have a choice at work. I prefer Windows - Mac OS looks dated and crude now. I ordered a Mac for my replacement machine, but only because the Lenovo X1 wasn't available with 16Gb from my company. If it had been, it'd have been a no brainer. A much better device for me since I want portability. If I didn't, I'd have got a Lenovo P51 with much more RAM and CPU power than the best MacBook on offer.

I think Mac OS just seems to be less demanding and far simpler than Windows, so on older machines, even if you’ve upgraded the hardware (usual SSD/RAM upgrades) Macs seem to do better.

This might've been the case 15 years ago but it's not now. I just put an SSD in my original Lenovo W520 that I had in 2011 from work, so I could use it as a Zwift machine. It flies with W10 on it and it boots up a lot faster than either of my Macs (also work).

The last time I booted my Mac up was when I installed a new battery in it last summer, other than when it does it's own restarts on updates. Personally, I would never go back to Windows, but each to their own. I despise my works PC laptop with a passion.

As they say, ‘When you go Mac, you don’t go back’. I switched 2 years ago and find Mac OS a far nicer place to spend time compared with the uninspiring world of Windows.

But back on topic, I bought an M1 MBA 16Gb in Nov. I hammer it a lot for work - including Final Cut Pro - and it’s an incredibly capable machine. Seriously rapid, super smooth, perfectly quiet and cool. It’s a game changer IMO. The 8Gb machines are not far behind in terms of speed as lots of people, including professionals, sing their praises. I only opted for 16Gb as it guaranteed me max performance at the time of purchase and a bit more future proofing. If you can justify the £200 then go for it. Re storage, I went with 512Gb and use an external 1Tb Samsung T7 SSD for FCP files - more than rapid enough and far cheaper than upping the SSD at POS.

atest Linux Kernel is supposed to be M1 compatible.

Sadly it’s SAS running on that virtual machine Unix machine. But I may go full fat SAS MacOS anyway.

To be honest, the only real difference is how poor Outlook is on MacOS. I use both MBP and my work HP laptop. Current the HP has a borked battery circuit so use both for team and document bashing. I like the MPB but it’s the quality of the old machine, hewn from solid aluminium. The Mercedes 340 of the laptop works.

APPLE deliberately remove older features in macos on a regular basis.

I bought an imac I think about 18 months ago. When I bought it macs could run 32 bit software.

AN OS update just 2 weeks later removed all support for 32bit software and it now only runs 64 bit apps

https://winaero.com/windows-11-hardware-requirements-32-bit-windows-is-not-longer-a-thing/

Yes. I've got a 2012 Mac Air which would be absolutely fine still if it weren't for the fact that it's 4GB and not upgradeable.

Is that the going rate for memory these days, or is there more to the "better" one than just 8gb extra ?

To be honest, the only real difference is how poor Outlook is on MacOS.

TBF standard mail on our work Macs is currently a shambles with Office365. IMAP is not syncing around the network for us and I've not tracked down a way to cure it yet. Throw in older machines that are running High Sierra and it's a bundle of laughs.

I think there are differences in the operating systems, i.e. windows vs Mac OS, that matter over time.

This is true.

I think Mac OS just seems to be less demanding and far simpler than Windows, so on older machines, even if you’ve upgraded the hardware (usual SSD/RAM upgrades) Macs seem to do better.

But this is bollocks.

I’ve just resurrected my dads mid 2011 iMac

Is it running the latest version of MacOS?

My 2008 PC laptop is running the bleeding edge version of Windows. Your dad's Mac shit out years ago.

tried to get a new lease of life out of my daughters 5 year old HP laptop
...
That has to be down to the software

Seems legit. Did you pay north of a grand for the HP also?

the only reason for running Windows is that the hardware is cheaper. Can you imagine being able to afford a Mac, but buying a PC instead

"The only reason for running MacOS is that the hardware is more expensive. Can you imagine being able to buy a PC that will do everything you need, yet spending half as much again for no other reason than to be able to lord it over the plebs?"

lol, etc.

Can you imagine a Mac thread left to its own without the windows zealots?

@easily

Read the link that you have posted and you will see that whilst windows itself is going 64 bit only and will need a 64 bit processor it will retain compatibility with old 32 bit software.

That is not true of apples approach which deliberately removes compatability with old software. in apples case at the release of Catalina it broke a lot of commercially available programs which contained older code.

Regardless of the arguments from the Windows/OS X fanbois- the bottom line is that in 5 years time your Mac will be worth a good chunk of what you paid for it, whereas the Windows machine will have depreciated far quicker.

These days both OS’s are solid, and more similar than ever.

Once you’ve paid the initial Apple tax, there’s not much difference when replacing as you’ll recoup much more for your old MacBook.

Some interesting comments there guys, thanks.

My current Surface wasn’t far off the price of a MacBook Air when I bought it, from memory it was only about £100 cheaper. By comparison, my other half’s MacBook Air is about eight years old and still works a treat, my Surface at half the age not so much!

Having looked around I can get the 8gb model for under £900 and the cheapest I can find the 16gb is £1200 so I think I’ll keep the £300 difference and go for the lower spec model.

bar having to run niche software, the only reason for running Windows is that the hardware is cheaper.

Backwards compatibility is far superior to Macs. I have some expensive niche software and scanners that I need for my work (and, to be fair, they are Windows only). Most of that stuff was bought for Win 7 or XP, but still runs fine under Win10. Try running a printer or scanner or software from 2006 on a brand new Mac, pretty much guaranteed to not work.

Can you imagine a Mac thread left to its own without the windows zealots?

No chance. There's 2 types of people in this world; those who buy Macs, and those who regret not buying a Mac,and therefore need to spend their time telling everyone how much better Windows/PCs are in a futile attempt to justify their own existence and pretend their lives are not a complete failure. 😉

Back to the original topic...

A friend has the M1 MBA with 8GB RAM,and says it's absolutely fine for most things, perhaps a little slower for gaming. He's not doing stuff like hi res video etc, although he does use Fusion360 and says it runs fine.

My 2008 PC laptop is running the bleeding edge version of Windows.

How are you getting on with Premiere Pro and After Effects?

Ah...

Sadly it’s SAS running on that virtual machine Unix machine. But I may go full fat SAS MacOS anyway.

Docker no use for this?

I have an M1 Macbook Pro with 8Gb. It's well fast enough for my workflows which include some complex GIS processing in FME/QGIS and software development. I'd argue that as a Surface replacement you'd be happy with 8Gb. If you can afford the extra then do it. There will always be workflows where you're swapping to/from disk and this will make a difference. No amount of processor magic can ever compensate for the grunt of moving data in/out of memory.

Try running a printer or scanner or software from 2006 on a brand new Mac, pretty much guaranteed to not work.

I could use a VM for that but I'd rather not rely on software that isn't being developed for the current IT environment with all its flaws and holes.

No chance. There’s 2 types of people in this world; those who buy Macs, and those who regret not buying a Mac,and therefore need to spend their time telling everyone how much better Windows/PCs are in a futile attempt to justify their own existence and pretend their lives are not a complete failure. 😉

Not really there are people who buy what does the particular task they need it to do best.

I have a macbook pro I use to make music, pretty much the only thing I use it for. I used linux for work and pretty much any general tasks that need doing. I use windows when I can't do what I want on the other two. I am not anti windows, just not as familiar with it as I used to be. It does seem like MS have really worked hard to make it a viable option for more techy people now. Hyper V and WSL are quite exciting developments.

As they say, ‘When you go Mac, you don’t go back’.

I went back. Mainly due to defective battery, defective replacement battery and defective replacement replacement battery, and forced obsolecence at 4 years.

I refused to ever go back to Apple, but M1 is piquing my interest, but only if I can dual boot Linux on it.

At least with M1 you know it's so new that it's going to be a fair while before Apple decide you are not allowed to "experience" your laptop.

Either way, I'd get 16meg. Pretty much all laptops now are either non-upgradeable with soldered RAM, or you have to crack them apart with a spudger and something will never go back quite right. Even my Macbook never went back together as neatly as from the factory, when I unscrewed the bracket to install an new HDD and double the RAM.

Docker no use for this?

Don't think so - SAS supply the University Edition as a compiled virtual machine disk image - about to be decommissioned in August. Their online system is also very good. But I run locally under VMware at the moment. I bought the Mac for my son to run unix and Matlab for a Masters. It sat unloved for a year, so I though I'd recommission it. It's just an operating system really. And 2.5 kilos of aluminium! My eyesight doesn't justify the Retina screen.