Mid life crisis looming and i have always had a soft spot for them.
Talk me down, or talk them up!!
I haven't got one - very expensive for good ones. They are not built to last so there are not many good ones around. Be a shame to use it as a daily driver. Just keep it as a second car that would need to be garaged really. I remember seeing them at the 30k mark.
Not yet, however Slack jr is well aware that when he attains the where-with-all a yellow one in HF flavour, will be perfectly acceptable as a token of his appreciation for being brought up so well 😉
If you have the opportunity, I’d say do it and can I have a go please mister?!
One of my favourite cars, I always wanted one of the LHD Evo models and remember looking at them back in the early 2000's when they were about 8 grand but I'd only just started a new job and couldn't quite afford it so bought a Sunny Gti-r instead.
Had a quick look again recently and some of them were up at 50-60k 😱 If you get a bad one it'll probably be a huge money pit!
Worked on one.... and I had a theme ie
They rot like nothing you have ever seen. They are sods to work on.
They're not hugely fast by modern standards
Would I have one he'll yeah
Think they're going for about 30k for a decent one now, then the sky is the limit depending what you want to spend.
If you can afford to run one, can you live with one? Years of nicer and nicer cars have made us soft and some modern hatchbacks are trampling all over the old rally cars in terms of performance.
Having said that, I'd happily take an r34 skyline of evo 6 mitsubishi over most cars I see out there
They’re not hugely fast by modern standards
Not sure about that.
I had a ride in one years ago that belonged to a lad who was a mechanic & he'd tweeked it a bit more than standard & since then the only thing Iv'e been in that I can compare it to was my stepsons Aston Martin Vantage.
I remember the Lancia being a proper firm ride, as you'd expect & I wouldn't like to drive on the pothole infested roads we have today in one.
Fantastic track day car though!
My mate has one. Barely been out of a heated garage for probably over 20 years other than for servicing. As new with only a few thousand miles on it. One of the the last HF models. No idea what it is worth but I am guessing a fair bit now.
I nearly bought one of these about 20 years ago until the guy revved it up and one of the spark plugs popped out of the head lol.
I remember being in a test drive with an ex rally driver from up in Yorkshire, and even though he took it easy it handled so well and felt bloody quick. I'm sure by modern standards it's not, and my cupra would feel much more comfortable at speed.
BUT, if I could afford to buy and run a decent one now I'd buy one at the drop of a hat. They look amazing and (by modern standards) you would actually feel that you are driving the car, not all the electrical gubbins that cars have now.
A mate of mine had one back in the day, christened ‘The Moneypit’. There was always something wrong with it. Never ran right. The cost of owning and running it was truly eye-watering
You’d be better off just blowing it all on coke and hookers
Don’t own one. The OP just brought back memories of me being in northern Italy back in the late 90s and Integrales were everywhere...every street. I commented at the time that they were as common a sight as a Sierra would be in the UK
Can you find one that isn't a rust bucket, hadsn't been trashed and is mechanically and electrically sound? There must be one out there somewhere.
Is the petrol tank still under the drivers seat?
One of my friends (who I’m sure lurks here) had one for a few years. I drove it once. I was driving a 16v Golf GTI at the time and I thought that was peaky! If you out your foot down in gear it was nothing.... nothing... nothing.... BOOOOOOOOOOST.
As I recall it didn’t break down much, as is, not running, but parts broke often and it was a sod to replacements for, it was really hard to work on.
They’re al silly money now aren’t they?
Don’t own one. The OP just brought back memories of me being in northern Italy back in the late 90s and Integrales were everywhere…every street.
The Car Model was ‘Delta’ - millions of them, only the fast ones were Integrales, they sold about 40k of them globally so pretty rare, even in Italy.
only the fast ones were Integrales,
& all LHD I believe?
Those jokes we make about Alfa Romeo reliability? Alfa owners make them about Integrale owners.
Walkers Garage are the UK specialists http://www.walkersgarage.co.uk/
I'd love one, but too fragile for me. It would have to be a cosseted weekend car and I haven't got the money or space for that.
only the fast ones were Integrales,
& all LHD I believe?
Yup.
Yes, I had an 8 valve.
Always loved the look, so when I was young and single I sold my Golf GTI (just as the prices collapsed) and went for it. I knew I wouldn't be able to keep it for long as if something went wrong I would struggle to pay for it, but what the hell!
Something did go wrong (engine miss fire at high revs) but managed to sell it, even with that.
(I was out giving it a wash when two blokes walked past. Apparently they were from New Zealand and had come over to buy an Integrale, and were staying a few houses away.)
I haven't looked at the prices now, but I don't think they'll go down in the future.
https://richmars.smugmug.com/Other/Lancia/i-vBccM5m/A
I haven’t looked at the prices now
The cheapest one on pistonheads is £20k and its been messed with. The rest go from £40k up.
Not surprised with those prices.
When I win the lottery (unlikely unless I start playing) it will be high on the list of cars to buy.
One thing I remember from mine was the electrics. Obviously it hadn't been designed to have all the added bits that were present in the Integrale, so under the bonnet was a load of extra fuse boxes, wherever they could find space for them. But having said that, the only electrical problem I had was a fault drivers window switch.
all LHD I believe?
Always fun to have to ask your passenger if it’s safe to pass!
20 ish posts .... lots of opinions.... only one an owner 😀😀
ex owner!
The Car Model was ‘Delta’ – millions of them, only the fast ones were Integrales, they sold about 40k of them globally so pretty rare, even in Italy.
Trust me, I know my cars and can tell the difference between an Integrale and a bog standard Delta (I was competing myself at the time in Group A8 Rally Cars at the time, Escort Cosworth and an ex-works Sapphire and an ex-works Legacy). A pukka performance car is not an alien thing to me.
There were dozens of Integrales dotted around every other street in the various towns around Venice, Verona and St Marino.
Ah, they’re so rare in these parts I assumed you meant Deltas.
There were also lots of fakes around, based on the standard Delta turbo which are not at all the same as the Integrale. If the OP does buy one he should fully check the history to make sure it is real.
Try the Alfa 155 Q4 for the full house of Italian car stereo types.
You need to go along to one of the historic rallys in Italy if you want to see proper Lancias and similar. Here is a small selection from Elba in 2017...
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Oh my god... That Stratos ^
A good friend of mine had one about 20 years ago. It was brutally quick, turn in and mid corner grip was amazing. The ride though was rock hard.
By modern standards very agricultural, but if you have the cash and don't bin it then it will probably pay for itself if you keep it a few years.
The Stratos. Wow. I remember pushing Bjorn Waldegard out of Radnor Forest in his Stratos. Even with two of them in it weighed nothing. And that engine! Even in the middle of the night you could hear it for two miles before it reached you. Beautiful. Just about perfect and in the Alitalia livery almost a work of art. Motoring news had a picture of 3 of them lined up that was on my garage wall for years.
That was in the days of the RAC Rally. Not the commercialised abomination we have nowadays.
Fuel tank under the driver's seat was the group B lancia S4. Used to keep the weight central and low. One of the reasons Henri toivenan lost his life in a crash .
Yes, Henri flew into a tree. No chance.
Then they changed the regs.
Overboost switch under the throttle pedal iirc, When mashed to the floor the wastegate as diddled to allow 1bar boost through the rev range for a little bit more power . Think the std boost was 10psi.
I learnt to drive in Delta HF 4x4 which was the forerunner to the 8v Integrale as was exactly the same apart from the box arches. This had been converted to RHD from new by a local Lancia dealer. Whilst it was quick, it felt very cheaply put together with plenty of rattles and creaks. This was 25 years ago and they certainly wouldn’t be that quick by modern standards, a £5k Seat Leon Cupra would give it a run for its money.
I was looking to buy an Evo Integrale in around 2002 and a decent one could be had for around £7-8k so it’s frighting that they’re now £40k. I ended up with an E30 M3 as it was half the price and although not as quick it was nicer to drive, with a much more modern interior and more reliable. I don’t look at prices now as I’d cry after selling mine for £6k.
It’s crazy the way all these 80s and 90s cars with motorsport heritage (Sierra and Escort Cosworth, E30 M3, Integrale, Mercedes Cosworth) have appreciated in value and the condition of them probably isn’t getting better as every car I looked at 17 years ago had rust somewhere so if you are thinking of buying it needs to be inspected with an inch of its like on ramps as plenty of cars that look good on the surface can be rotten underneath.
Try the Alfa 155 Q4 for the full house of Italian car stereo types.
Afaik they were just a ‘grale cludged into the 155 bodywork. Following the wind up of the Lancia/ abarth rally team, the crew all decamped to Alfa and started work on the touring car project, which they went out and won.
A mate used to import deltas in the late 90s - fly out to Turin, buy whatever he could and drive them home. They were very, very fragile things with one infamously losing a rear stub axle on the m42.
As a blinkered Italian car nut, if I could store and look after it properly, I’d have one in a flash. I’ve looked at a few over the years, but I’d really need a treble garage, with a lift and iso container full of ricambi originalli.
Nice video by Davide:
A mate who was also a mechanic/car dealer had one for a few months. He got rid because he genuinely thought it would kill him. Yes I know he could have slowed down etc but he reckoned it's cornering ability was just ridiculous and if and when it did let go you'd be going along at some ridiculous speeds.
I've got about 50% of a Grale!
I've wanted an one since I was a kid, the closest I've come so far is building a Fiat Coupe using Lancia engine and 4x4 running gear from a written off Integrale. Not that fast in a straight line by modern standards (250-300bhp) but the handling and grip is crazy, not much will touch it in the wet.
If you can afford one, have nice dry heated space to store it and have a specialist fairly locally (Walkers, Tanc Barrett, Delta Works) then go for it, I'd have a proper one in a heart beat.
My Italian father in law has wanted one for YEARS, he's ex-motor trade and finally managed to get his hands on one in Italy and brought it back, it was in incredibly good condition. after having it about two years he's sold it because there was always maintenance needed (dodgy valve that needed a big job to do apparently amongst other things) and he made a tidy profit. it was ace but not a forever car that he thought it was.
Apologies if this has already been done (and not strictly on-topic), but there's a Petrolicious vid on that white Stratos. Its owned/driven by Erik Comas, the ex-F1 driver.
https://petrolicious.com/films/1974-lancia-stratos-group-4-sliding-the-rally-queen
This video is a bit more fun... and is on topic as there is also an integrale in there.... enjoy
There is genuinely a fair amount of rubbish talked about 'grale's 😉
I owned a Winner red '92 Evo 1 for 6.5 years between 1997 and 2003.
Best bits:
1) Looks the muts, instantly renders anything less than an F40 as "invisible" in my experience
2) Rare. Even rarer now
3) Practical. 5 doors, decent boot, small foot print. reasonably reliable if used regularly.
4) Good ABS brakes even by modern standards, exceptional for the age of the car
5) Very good traction (4wd obviously) so quick from a standing start, however....
The Bad bits:
1) The clutch is the weak link in the drive train.. Drive it properly, and you'll wear it out or explode it in 20k miles (mine exploded at 19k)
2) Not actually very fast. At the time sure, low 200's of horses was reasonably fast, today, forget it, it wouldn't see which way a modern warm hatch went, let alone a proper hot one, and something like a Golf Tdi , with its massive low end torque would be a real challange to keep up with.
3) Average handling. Yes, the rally versions, with trick suspension and critically massively stiff body shells thanks to massive roll cages and forest plating kits handled ok in a front heavy kind of way. But std road 'grales simply do not have a stiff enough body shell to overcome that front heavy layout. Forget those dreams of 4wheel drifting around every turn. Not going to happen (yes, you can make it oversteer, but it takes a huge 'bung' and a lot of road to catch, and it's momentum drift not a power drift
4) Not much grip by modern standards (215 section 16" tyre was biggest factory tire, as today worn by a typical 'cooking' level fiesta or clio!!) Wheels and tyres can be fitted, but ruin the handling and result in the body shell flexing even more
I sold mine pretty much when they were worth bottom book, for iirc 14k. Today, my actual car just sold again for just over £50k.
So, in summary:
Buy to pootle around, looking good and it's probably a very safe place to put your money. I can't see them depreciating ever. In unloved one will be a massively expensive PITA and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. A decent one, whilst not being brilliant to actually drive is a very good long term usable classic to own, just make sure you can stomach the inevitable large bills to keep it mint if you do use it (i did 60kmiles in mine, and other than the clutch all it needed was a (pre-emptive) turbo rebuild, but it was used a lot, pretty much a daily for at least 3 of those years. Garage queens look nice, but tend to be really un-reliable ime)
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Never owned one, but worked at Walkers Garage for about 7 years. That was over 10 years ago, even then they where an expensive hobby.
I spent the day with Top Gear Magazine once, they did an article about the cost of ownership etc. The used a Verde York Ltd edition, for some reason I ended up doing most of the driving while the photographer stood in a ditch taking photos.
I remember being amazed at how the bills could add up. Most cars we sold where kept for for about 12 months, then ended back with us for sale after several large bills and breakdowns. I don’t think I can remember a time when the workshop didn’t have multiple engine repair jobs in.
One day I would like to own one, but it’s unlikey that I will ever be rich enough. Even if it was affordable, the bills would make me feel sick.
I’m obviously going to be a bit out of touch, but if you’ve got any questions PM me.
Neil
Late 80's my mate had a Delta HF (I think), it was brilliant, fast, OMG the grip and beautiful (we all had minis and chevettes at the time).
Bad points; it rusted so badly he had a sign in the boot window. 0-60 in two body panels. The electrics were erratic at best, and it would spontaneously shed trim on a whim and it was hideously revvy on the motorway. ohh and it had an appetite for rubber that Catwoman would be proud of.
I once raced an Integrale along the A361 in my Manta GTE, it had me on the bendy bits but I'd reel it in on the straights (probably because the engine revs were making the owners ears bleed)
OP - just get a modern hot hatch like a civic type r, a fiesta rs, or the sporty megan on last weeks top gear. You could then use it as a daily driver and have fun. In order to own a classic like the Lancia you have to be dedicated and use it as a Sunday car, living in a garage the rest of the time. IMO of course. A non perfect Lancia for daily use would be a money pit to keep it running all the time. You would not to get a perfect condition one and use it every day and expect to raise in value.
Sure get one, but have it as a garaged second car to keep it in nice condition. Do not listen to people that say it isn't fast. It is. There will be turbo lag, but they are quick and you will still enjoy it even if it not as quick as modern hot hatches as it will be noisy and probably rattle and have a harsh ride. Will still feel quick though due to age and be an load of fun to drive, which is half the fun. A modern car will be quicker, but may not feel as fast though as they will be much more refined.
I thought the default mid life crisis car was a Spec B Legacy estate with a set of roof bars and bike rack. If I was going group B it would be a 6R4 or 20V UR Quattro, lottery win pending.
My mid life crisis car is obviously the Stratos in Alitalia livery or secondly the mad fire breathing Renault Turbo 2.
6R4 would be fine but can't help thinking it would be like being strapped to a very large bomb. Insane car.
From the early wheeler dealers days
A friend had the EVO2 and I love them but they aren't an easy car to live with. Compared to a modern 4wd hot hatch they are just not in the same league. My love of the 4wd hot hatch got me my Golf R which is now Stage 2+ and will trounce most cars going, it is very rapid indeed. Love the EVO's for what they are and I'd buy one in a heart beat if I had the money spare but it would be a true "weekend car"
If anyone knows a Delta owner anywhere near Sheffield I would very, very gratefully accept a passenger ride.
Personally I can't be bothered to spend all weekend on my back with rust flakes dropping into my eyes while I scrape my knuckles and lose my 10mm socket. Been there done that.
If I had the best part of 30 grand to spend on a fun car, Focus RS all day long.
LOL at "‘grales".
My mid life crisis car is obviously the Stratos in Alitalia livery
Go halves with you on one?
Now if you fancy a Integrale but want something a little more special/exclusive/faster/hand built then you need a Delta Futurista, a snap at 276000-Euros plus doner car.
Can't offer any constructive advice, only that I love those cars. 🙂
Loved the Wheeler Dealers and Car SOS ones.
Good luck!