[Closed] Anxiety and Depression

Fwiw.I've been self certified the last week & like the op I dont want to go to work ,but where I work you're supposed to be "hard" too. I've tried every day to get an appointment to see a doc. No chance . Had meds before ,which I hated. But the Black dog is back &quite bad at the moment. Desperate times,measures and all that....ffs.
I've typed this ,deleted it and rewrote it and it still sounds Pish, apologies to the grammar pedants in advance.

In addition to my early post

I never had any concerns about medication and it was a totally positive experience for me

I did have some preconceived notions and objections to therapy. Mainly male ego based nonsense. In reality, talking to a complete stranger and pouring my heart out every week was one of the best things ever

I cut negative people and experiences out of my life. Some of this involved some very big decisions but it was 100% necessary and i have no regrets

It's not a linear journey. You will have ups, downs and about turns along the way, but it's a worthwhile journey and the road keeps stretching ahead of you in reality. You just learn to accept that and adjust accordingly

For the record I was diagnosed with anxiety a couple of years ago and prescribed Propranolol.
last year I was diagnosed with reactive depression.
It's kind of cool when you can talk about it. Not everyone will understand that though.

dirksdiggler - Member 
Anyway:
1. Exercise
2. Counselling
3. Medication.

Very much this, in this order.

GPs in my experience jump straight to 3 in the form of anti-depressants (SSRIs etc). I rejected that and they went to 2. They never even suggested 1 and yet it's vastly better than 3 (2 works to complement it). 3 is useful if you really are struggling and just need something to get some balance, but there are other things to try first.

Anyway, I'm not a teacher but I come from a family of teachers and know how that affects them. Primarily the problem with teaching I see is the level of stress. You have to get on top of it as anxiety / depression is just one part of it. Can lead down the road to strokes or even heart attacks. Though anxiety itself is strange in that it can give you symptoms almost identical to stuff like angina and heart attacks and yet you aren't suffering from them, but you might be, so need a good check over.

Anyway, can't say to understand the situation as everyone is different, but I'd be looking for maybe a change in job, or at least a change in pace and attitude, combined with exercise. Years ago I switched from the job being all important to life being all important and the job is just the job. It'll get done, or not, stuff it, there are more important things. Then I discovered riding bikes. I make time for riding whenever possible, even in crap weather and at night (just buy some lights). Find groups of people to ride with and get out and ride. Amazing how you switch off and exercise de-stresses you.

captainsasquatch - Member 
For the record I was diagnosed with anxiety a couple of years ago and prescribed Propranolol.

That's not so bad. Just a beta blocker. It's not an SSRI. Not mind altering / happy pills. It just simply calms the heart down to get you out of fight and flight mode.

If on offer, worth getting a prescription and just use as you see fit. They're virtually side effect free and harmless, and non addictive.

^^ Beta blockers are not free of side effects!
Propranolol gave me asthma, and metoprolol made me very depressed and lacking in energy.

vickypea - Member 
^^ Beta blockers are not free of side effects!
Propranolol gave me asthma, and metoprolol made me very depressed and lacking in energy.

Didn't say they're free of them, just virtually free. Perhaps not the right word, more like "fairly" free of them. There are some people where they can have issues. Main affect on people seems to be can make them tired or affect sleeping, though my doctor said most people won't have issues and also they have no problem prescribing them or how much you want to take as they're relatively safe. There are various alternative beta blockers.

SSRIs on the other hand have a comparatively large amount of worrying side effects, including scary things like suicidal tendencies! They are a much bigger issue as you can't just come off them when you like.

Anyway...

They are a much bigger issue as you can't just come off them when you like.

I did

I think there is a question of separating anxiety from depression, Propranolol is one way of dealing with anxiety, but not depression. It might be the first hurdle when attacking deprsession, but unlikely to be the final solution. Ymmv.
Everyone's anxiety and depression are different.
Good luck to eveyone who's fighting it, and remember to get out of the bed on the right side tomorrow. 8)

As a teacher, if presented with this topic 3 years ago I would have been about 3 weeks behind where you seem to be. I changed from teaching in a mainstream school to teaching in a PRU and am currently on my third academic year. My wife has said on many occasions when asked that I am like a new man/ Dad/ Husband etc. The job is fantastic, I sincerely love most days at work and enjoy planning for it. Marking takes me about an hour per week, max. I work from 7 - 3pm Mon-Fri and spend around 2 hours per week during my evenings and weekends planning.

I'd advise you to at least look at other options within teaching as there are plentiful, there's a massive shortage of English teachers in all classrooms so u'd be hot property too. The Special Needs field is huge, go and investigate what may work for you as it doesn't appear that mainstream does.

Should you be in the West Yorkshire area I may be able to support, if so let me know.

Good Luck!

It is really important to have a plan, just drifting along accepting the status quo just feeds the down feelings.

If the OP is a long way down he may not have the necessary motivation to:
a. Make a plan
b. Exercise

At this point using AD's will allow for a & b.

I would hope the OP gets a couple of weeks signed off by the GP while any drugs get a chance to level things off.

Great news lunge, good to hear such a positive outcome.

I agree that work helped in the end. 3 months off and I was drifting and losing touch with normal life. Going back on a phased return helped me come to terms with things.

Interesting comments re propanol. I suffer anxiety and after a severe panic attack last week my doctor prescribed 1x40mg once a day for a week yet gave me 84. My memory of his instructions were that I can use them for my fear of flying, but does this basically mean propranolol can be taken as and when required?

Kryton57 - Member 
My memory of his instructions were that I can use them for my fear of flying, but does this basically mean propranolol can be taken as and when required?

That's what my doctor said and they prescribe them for stuff as you say like fear of flying and to students for exam nerves. I don't use them now but used to take a couple if symptoms were kicking in. Doctor said the number you need to take varies per person as to when they make any difference, but there's little risk if you take too many (don't though, I'm just repeating what was said and IANAD so that advice could be wrong).

Prescription I got had more than originally needed and on a later appointment though not really needing them they said I may as well have some more just in case. Got loads of the stuff now (probably out of date). The online system even had it down as a repeat prescription so I can just hit a button to get more.

Beta blockers are intended to treat angina, high blood pressure etc, but discovered to work well with anxiety. It's basically just reducing the panic fight and flight response because it slows the heart rate down.

p.s. Brief way of doing this without medication is to splash cold water on your face (or I've found similar with warm just covering face with a wet cloth). Triggers a reaction apparently to do with suddenly being submerged in water and the body will slow the heart rate down.

Effect works well for a short while. Beta blockers last a bit longer.

A few years ago I had a very down patch. Talking to my wife helped, and that led to seeing the GP and getting on an online CBT course which helped me to understand what I was feeling a bit more. Knowing that other people are having the same problems really helped me - [url= http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/throwback-thursday-vicious-cycle/ ]Tom Hill's article in Singletrack[/url] came out at just the right time for me.

Workwise, following [url= https://twitter.com/HarfordSean ]Sean Harford[/url] (Ofsted's National Director, Education) has really helped, as it lets me know what crap I can just ignore. Had I stayed in the subject I was teaching I don't think I'd still be teaching (spending all my weekends, evening and holidays marking ICT coursework) but I got the option of switching to a different subject (physics) and I now feel that I have more control over how much work I have to do outside of work. I've had a few anxiety wobbles since, mainly around lesson observations, and have found that telling the observer how I react in advance has really helped.

If the OP is a long way down he may not have the necessary motivation to:
a. Make a plan
b. Exercise

At this point using AD's will allow for a & b.

I, and indeed she, was very scared of them but they have really helped.

Brief way of doing this without medication is to splash cold water on your face (or I've found similar with warm just covering face with a wet cloth). Triggers a reaction apparently to do with suddenly being submerged in water and the body will slow the heart rate down.

I've found antihistamines work for my anxiety.

I suffer from Bipolar disorder that means that at times, I am extremely low. For many years I took all kinds of pills. They helped up to a point. Please remember they are not a cure. The analogy from my psychiatrist was " like the crutch you use when you break your leg - helps you get around but won't repair the broken bone".
So without other help, pills will just keep you in a less depressed and less anxiety but unless you fix the problem that caused the initial lowness, it will not get better.
I tried many talk therapies, some work better than others and if you don't feel a connection to a therapist (you just think they aren't helping), find another.
My fix when I'm really low is a Spotify playlist. It has songs from great times in my life. Fun times when life was great. I also dance around the house like a crazy fool. This really works for me. I am currently drug free and life is looking good again for me. Through talking, I have learnt which triggers cause me to become unstable, so have altered my life to avoid them. And by talking, the triggers becomes a lot less extreme.
The other thing I have learnt in life is, sometimes when I'm low, it's not that I'm sick at that time, but that everyone sometimes has low times in life and it does get better. Trust me on this. Mail in profile if you need to talk.

I have not read every post but there seems to be some good advice on it

Antidepressants are a treatment not a cure. What they do is chase the black dog away for a time. this then give you the breathing space to find a cure - which could well be in talking therapies of some sort - the key with talking therapies is to have a good relationship with a counsellor. I like the person centred approach of Carl Rodgers but other types of talking therapies have their promoters as well.

It may be that you need to quit teaching as if that is the cause then the only cure is to get out but equally talking therapies might give you the tools to carry on.

So
1) GP
2) antidepressants if advised
2) time off work to stabilise yourself 3 months maybe? ( only if needed)
3) talking therapy to sort out the causes and to give you the tools to cope. You will probably have to go private but check with your GP what is available but NHS provision is patchy and poor.

The bad sides to Anti depressants - can take a couple of weeks at least to start feeling any benefit from them. There can be side effects when starting with them, nausea, dizziness, worsening of feelings etc but your Dr will go through these with you but just be assured it will pass (took 6 weeks for my nausea to stop when started citalopram). It may take a couple of goes to find the right med for you (Which of course can take time)

However

Once you have found the right med/s for you, they'll help calm and slow your mind down from racing away 24/7. Some do make you drowsy but you'll sleep better. They offer some breathing space. You'll start noticing that you can be bothered to do some stuff you used to enjoy, even if it means just going for a walk

Talk, talk to your family and friends
Talk to the Dr
Accept that you are unwell, you're suffering from an illness, you can't help it, it's not your fault. Don't beat yourself up
Avoid booze (I had 3 pints on Friday and have had an awful weekend with my depression)

Propranolol can help with calming your heart rate/BP/adrenaline down. I take 2 x 40mg a day. The most concerning side effect I had with these was that they caused my hair to start falling out, luckily this seems to have stopped now

This forum is great to sound off on, there will always be someone here to talk to

CBT is worth exploring. You mentioned low confidence stemming from your upbringing, so you might also want to try a therapist with a Freudian background, as you might have some unresolved issues...It's something I'm now going through, and it seems that having distant, critical parents isn't the greatest thing for long-term success (although it can get you further as you start out, but you begin to run out of extrinsic motivation like fear and need to develop internal motivation, which requires self-esteem).

probably going to say the wring thing so apologies if its not appropriate to you... but for years i suffered with anxiety until i stopped drinking and literally its not been a prob since.

This has been my experience, and maybe it's not right for you, but here goes.

I have , and still do, suffer with the triangle of depression, anxiety and stress.

I thought that having retired my depression would go away.
I have stopped taking the anti depressants now, but the unhappiness and stress brought on by not being happy in my work / job still affects me two years after having retired.

People gave me all sorts of advice when I was working and suffering with depression, but in a large part it was brought on by the work and workplace.

Family pressures made me carry on in the job, mortgage, 3 kids, supporting them in uni etc. Didn't see that I could stop and change.

I do wish I had the courage to change and end the cycle. I was clearly not content / capable/ fitted in ( insert any adjective).

Try and make a long term change if the work is affecting you. I know it's not an easy thing to do, but your skills as a teacher are very valuable and are transferable into other areas.

Have a long think about it, there are many things you could probably do with your skill set, and in the long term you and your family would be better off (maybe not financially), but emotionally.

http://breathingspace.scot/

I sometimes wonder how our 'modern' way of life is detrimental to the mental health of people who commit to work for 40 or 50 years, often under quite intense scrutiny, in jobs that perhaps do not allow for adequate reflection, change of scenery and so on. Teaching must be relentless these days if done properly.

Perhaps we should all be allowed a sabbatical to ride our bikes every 10 years - to replenish and recharge?

When I suffered from clinical depression my life was already a bit of a mess but got much worse, not enough work, too many drugs etc... Fortunately by the time I was at my lowest point I had nothing but my bike and the clothes I was wearing left to lose and was eventually able to affect in one fell swoop a complete and total change in my environment, job, lifestyle, associates everything.

From my perspective, I feel for you because I see you can't throw it all out and start again. I had no dependents then and although I felt sorry for myself at the time in hindsight I was very lucky in that respect as I got a clean break.

What I'm trying to say in a rambling sort of way is that the misery is not worth it. There are many different people who need teaching, not just kids in schools. If you want to stick with teaching you do have options, please take one before you really can't get out of bed in the morning. The darkness will suck you down quicker than shit so please stick a finger up to it, kick it in the head and put yourself in a better position, one you deserve to be in.

I'm not being flippant, a f==k you attitude is all that gets me through much of the modern day bureaucracy that's forced upon us all. I see depression as the enemy, it's always watching and waiting, I take the fight to it.

As always on these threads, some really brilliant advice. I don't really have a lot to add except that in my personal experience the use of anti-depressants (Citalopram in my case), gave me the breathing space and released me from some of the anxiety. This meant I could use the counselling (Integrative) more meaningfully as I had more energy in reserve. Exercise does definitely help, but for me it's part of a balanced approach with counselling, medication and support from family and very supportive friends.

Just back from the doc's with Sertraline (50mg/day) and a leaflet for a CBT self-referral.

The doctor says that Sertraline might make my A&D worse for a couple of weeks, but I want to start taking it so I can get through the stabilising period and onto feeling better.

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

I've not suffered myself, but my wife has. The things that helped her were

avoid stimulants - coffee, alcohol, sugar.
Avoid social media
Exercise
Talk (but constructively, not going over old ground all the time)
Headspace
Don't discount medication, but be patient with it, it does take a while.

The website that really helped her was [url= http://www.anxietycentre.com ]www.anxietycentre.com[/url] it's worth paying for a months membership (£5ish) just to read their advice.

Hope you feel better soon.

Good work OP. Hold on tight for the next few weeks, you will likely be yo-yoing for a bit and will feel pretty weird at times, but it will settle down and then things will start to look noticeably less horrible. Good luck.

You will be on a bit of a rollercoaster until the meds start to work - I delayed starting mine as the family were away the week I was prescribed them and I didn't fancy dealing with the potential consequences of going further down before I came back up all by myself.

Avoiding stimulants is a good point - I was getting a serious caffeine habit to keep me going when times got hard and I wanted to just curl up and quit, and reducing the coffee/switching to decaff did help ease things. I also cut down the little drinking I did to just a pint at a time, couldn't be doing with feeling hungover and depressed and anxious.

For me talking therapies, CBT or otherwise have been the most helpful, but you need to be in the right place for them to have the best effect, so AD's can help. (See threads on posting history.). Only you, and those closet to you will know what's most important to you all. Making changes, as hard and scary as it may seem to be in the present, I've found to be a useful way to highlighting what I really care about...

For us, this meant making some major moves to Spain. My wife's a teacher and she managed to secure a position in one of the many international schools, aside from the direct benefits of more sunshine etc, the quality of life is much improved, and albeit that she is still working full time, the class sizes, beurocracy etc are much less. Sorry if this is a bit jumbled, but my email is in profile if you want to talk...

For us, this meant making some major moves to Spain

Good one - brave move. My dream is to run a backpackers' and touring cyclists' hostel in Iceland.

Unfortunately, the kids' mother might object to me taking the kids to rural Iceland 🙂 My current partner isn't keen either!

My 'breakdown' occurred when working in Commissioing for Children's Services with a local authority. I loved my work, I was good at it too, but the demands were ever growing, unrealistic and under resourced. On top of this I suffered some work placed harassment/bullying. So much of my life had become about pursuing an unobtainable reality, of which fact I endeavoured to distract myself with obsessions over many meaningless material objects, hearsay I know, but bikes included. Since moving, we've had to adapt to a reduction in income, but what we do have is time, and more than this, this spent together, talking, playing whatever...

I've since stopped my meds, and have previously written much on here about anxiety, depression etc... Whilst none of this was easy, ultimately the motivation was to get to what's right for me and those who I love... When I was first prescribed anti-d's back in 2013' I thought that I was 'stronger' I could do it on my own, I'm a 'bloke' after all!!! That weekend ended up with me putting a belt around my neck... My journey has moved on, and the drugs helped me get to a place where I could talk, first and most importantly to my wife, and then to my family and friends, who I'd attempted to hide my situation from for many years.

Since all of this, I now have a group of people who I consider 'safe' to talk to, they have similar conditions, and it's mutually beneficial, but most importantly, they listen without prejustice, don't pretend to know exactly how I'm feeling, and realise that it's both ok to have a bad day and that this in itself does not make you a bad person...

Update if anyone is interested.

Hold on tight for the next few weeks, you will likely be yo-yoing for a bit and will feel pretty weird at times

This has turned out to be excellent advice from Mintimperial. I feel pretty dissociated and "fuzzy", tired all the time, and butterflies in my stomach pretty constantly. If I wasn't ill before, I sure as hell am now 🙂

So yes, I'm holding on tight 🙂

Hi all. My names Steve, asnd I suffer from Anxiety 🙂

In relation to this thread I used my work employee program to get some suggested councilling after having the second Panic attack related to flying that reduced me to my knees and living the last 17 years at least with recognisable anxiety issues.

So after my just first session the councillor told me so much about myself she couldnt have possibly known I was astounded to tears. Not only have we perhaps discovered the root of my anxiety, but the reasoning behind the behaviour it manifests and next time we start on a path to what it is i can do to "unlock" the cause and change my behaviour.

Like thaneofcawdor above yet without the medication, I've felt very strange today as my brain tries to adjust, sometimes sick, sometimes emotional and sometimes devil-may-care. It feel difficult but revolutionary. All in all though, I feel as though a weight has been slighty lifted. Time will tell how this manifest itself, but imagine you've discovered whats its like to be everyone else, when you didn't realise you were different.

Kryton57, you've just started a difficult journey, so it's natural you feel weird, but in my opinion (having been through stuff myself, you are taking the best route in addressing the underlying causes of your illness. It will be challenging but ultimately rewarding, just remember to keep taking the next step and eventually you will get there. Good luck

I didn't notice a massive difference when I went on Citalopram, it must've been very gradual but i think it made a difference as I wasn't as arsed about work which was (as I knew) the cause of my anxiety.
& now that I'm part time I really couldn't care less about the stuffing job! 🙂

Coming to this late-ish, but isn't:

Just back from the doc's with Sertraline (50mg/day)

A high starting dose?

Yes, it is very normal to feel that way. Holding on for the ride was certainly good advice. It should settle down within a couple of weeks. If it doesn't I would recommend a return to the docs. Keep us posted.

thaneofcawdor - Member
Just back from the doc's with Sertraline (50mg/day) and a leaflet for a CBT self-referral.

The doctor says that Sertraline might make my A&D worse for a couple of weeks, but I want to start taking it so I can get through the stabilising period and onto feeling better.

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

I had the sweats and a numb face with these, but it's different for everyone, so don't hesitate to speak to your doctor if you feel that something's not right.

Hello

Reading the initial post (haven't read the rest) is honestly like reading another version of how i feel. I find myself up in the same predicament.

I used to go to a therapist. She was against AD's and heavily backed meditation. I tried for a bit but, like an idiot, stopped practising. It helped. Eventually i stopped going due to the cost and i started challenging her more than allowing her to help me, mainly through the same reason that cause all my relationships to suffer - mistrust.

I then went on AD's. My advice is don't. They're ****ed up. Hard to come off. I got the brain zaps for a week. They're not good for you unless there's a neuro transmitter function issue and youre prepared to take them your whole life. They also damage the serotonin receptors over prolonged periods.

Meditation classes would be my 'advice'. It helps flush the shit out your head. Everyone in the world should do it, me included. I do intend on picking it up again.

Changing lifestyle is the ultimate ideal but i find the difficulty there is that i feel the way i do which in turn makes it hard to make the change. Catch 22.

Good work OP and Kryton.

🙂

Sertraline (50mg/day)

A high starting dose?

50mg is standard initial dose for depression and is the smallest dose tablet you can get it in without snapping pills in half.

Esselgruntfuttock seems to have been living a parallel life with mine!

Quite enjoying the "not giving a ****" attitude the Citalopram has given me, but find I'm a little fuzzy headed even in a low dose, so in March I'm hoping to start coming off it. If I can't keep up the new attitude without it, then I'll have to rethink.

Great news on your progress too kryton

chakaping - Member
Good work OP and Kryton.

This is the ops thread not mine, lets focus on him. I posted my content as it may help others as i just happened to be going through an issue and treatment at the same time. Regardless of the duration of the anxiety its hard to get out of the habit, so whether the meds, counselling or alternative treatment helps people its good to highlight.

And as ive learned keep at it - it takes time to come out of the habitual behaviours this can cause or be caused by but the simplest things can help. Its also good for everybody to know they are not alone.