[Closed] Anti Cycling. Why is it a thing?

Because cycling still offers the sense of freedom, a cheap way to get from A to B in a time efficient manner over shortish distances, things that were were promised to the upwardly mobile when they bought a car for both household adults back in the 80s.

When your life is crap its nice to have something to hate.

Works for Cycling, politics, pretty much anything really. Right now lots of people are having a crap time, so its easy to vent anger at something else instead of sorting your problem or realising you cant sort your problem and moving on.

People are tribal, selfish and stupid.

# Natural tribalism fuelled by tabloid press,
# Poor infrastructure design resulting in higher probability of conflict and low levels of non enthusiast engagement.

Yep, tribalism + stupidity + British media.

They're not allowed to go after any other 'minorities' now and since cyclists are predominantly white male we're an acceptable target.

Worse yet, for the hard-of-thinking we're a legitimate target because road tax/red lights/not wearing hi-vis blah blah blah.

I also strongly believe the media over-represents any hostility, I'm mostly struck these days by how polite most motorists seem to be, almost un-necessarily at times. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Because enough people are intolerant of anything that is not them.

s/a Brexit.

as above my own experience of commute cycling is that the overwhelming majority of drivers are just fine with giving space and overtaking at sensible places etc.

However. This does contrast with my wife's experience of being pushed off the road several times over the last few years.

I cannot help wondering whether there is something in the fact that she is 8" shorter than me and half my weight.

Because car drivers think they rule the roads.
Because cars are seen as a status symbol
Because it's the right of car drivers to drive like dicks
Because car driving is seen as a competition
etc

Because drivers might reach their destination a full 5 seconds faster than if there were no cyclists, how dare we.

Incompetent politicians, their billionaire bankrollers and media buddies need scapegoat groups and subjects to distract from their disastrously inadequate and greedy policies, hence populist hate of cycling, immigrants, the EU, equality and environmental concerns etc...

Divide and rule.

It's generally fat folk IME.

I also strongly believe the media over-represents any hostility, I’m mostly struck these days by how polite most motorists seem to be, almost un-necessarily at times. Maybe it’s a regional thing.

That must be a regional thing as where I live they are still mostly a bunch of impatient and overly aggressive ****ers.

two points

one - Annoyingly I forget the term but there was a phycologist on the radio explaining how we remember the covidiots far more vividly than the law abiders and subconsciously magnify their prevalence. A very few becomes a significant proportion in our heads with us subconsciously exadurating. The phenomenon is much stronger if the behaviour is not one you are part of. Same for naughty cyclists - as a non cyclist you will magnify the poor behaviour of a tiny minority and feel justified in lambasting them all because of this effect.

two - you clicked on them didn't you? Most of us can't help reading negative things about a group we are part of. Cycling is a popular pastime and mode of transport now - imagine all the offended clicks they are getting. They are monetising your objection to someone else's objection.

Because a significant minority of cyclists ride like dicks which then helps form a negative judgment of all cyclists by some other road users.

It is sad, but I do see selfish cyclists myself and it makes my blood boil as the next time I am out on my bike that same other road user will assume I am the same as the dick cyclist and treat me in the same manner.

Because it is no longer considered societally acceptable to verbally abuse ethnic minorities, at least not directly to their faces. All that hatred has to go somewhere.

Because drivers might reach their destination a full 5 seconds faster than if there were no cyclists, how dare we.

This is the main reason I think.

Social media doesn’t help either. I’ve had to leave my local Facebook page because I got sick of the constant anti-cycling posts on it. People moaning about cyclists on the road. People moaning about cyclist riding off road. People complaining about road tax etc...... Social media has given these keyboard warriors a voice and through confirmation bias and herd mentality, it seems the cyclist is now seen by some as worthless scum, getting in everyone’s way and annoying everyone.

I agree with 13thmonk, I think it’s overblown, and because it’s us, we notice it. I’m always surprised when it happens to me (aggressive driving) as it happens pretty infrequently, and as my commute has plenty of lights I almost always get to have a “chat” with the driver at the next set, which is always fun times...

Because a significant minority of cyclists ride like dicks which then helps form a negative judgment of all cyclists by some other road users.

It is sad, but I do see selfish cyclists myself and it makes my blood boil as the next time I am out on my bike that same other road user will assume I am the same as the dick cyclist and treat me in the same manner.

FFS that is just falling for the propaganda hook line and sinker, I bet you see far far far far far more cases of drivers being dicks and it barely even registers.

To be fair there are a lot of cyclists/road riders that don’t help the cause. Do enough driving around and it can be a right pain to over take a large group on a country lane. If I am out on the road (linking up woods) I tend to try and wave on or hand block if I can see further around the road that the car behind. Most drivers do thank back. I can probably count on one hand the number of times this has been done back to me when driving.

I think its just that some drivers minds goes, bikes are slower than me get out of my way. For example this morning I was out cycling about a doors width from some parked cars but the driver behind decided to follow really close for about 30 seconds then speed past (punish pass) as soon as he could beeping and shouting at me.

Sadly so much education needs to be done for drivers on how and why people on bikes do stuff but its not going to happen. So much for Boris "golden age for cycling."

Because a significant minority of cyclists ride like dicks which then helps form a negative judgment of all cyclists by some other road users.

This is just sad. To try and understand why you feel like this what makes a cyclist "ride like a dick" or be "selfish."

To be fair there are a lot of cyclists/road riders that don’t help the cause. Do enough driving around and it can be a right pain to over take a large group on a country lane

again, to try and understand your point of view how do cyclists "not help the cause"

Because they are jealous.

Your average fat man in a bathtub looks at a cyclist and thinks to himself: "lucky bastard! Fit, pulls the birds, low strain on the NHS, will live to a ripe old age". Then leans out of the window and screams "pay your car tax!!"

Not that it didn't exist already but it does form part of the hard right agenda of being anti-science, climate change deniers etc - there are some very very wealthy people who it suits very nicely to stir this stuff up.

Combined with google/social media algorithms that make more money from controversy and it's a perfect subject for it.

Just because......... people are dicks
We generally fail to see beyond our personal world view.

Got a mate who thinks cycling is just for children and does not understand why adults cycle.

It doesn't help that 'cycling' is seen as a 'thing' in this country, rather than the utilitarian transport activity that it is on other countries. So 'cyclists' are a group apart, rather than just people who are going from A to B on a bike.

Short version... commuting. We do too much of it... and far too much of it by car... all those hours wasted on the roads and we don't want to blame ourselves for it, so we need someone to blame it on... blame cyclists.

FFS that is just falling for the propaganda hook line and sinker, I bet you see far far far far far more cases of drivers being dicks and it barely even registers.

Yes I do (see all the Audi/BMW driver tropes out there). I think you misunderstand what I am saying completely.

This is just sad. To try and understand why you feel like this what makes a cyclist “ride like a dick” or be “selfish.”

Again, you are completely missing the point I am making.

Again, you are completely missing the point I am making.

I didn't at all. You said "a significant minority of cyclists ride like dicks which then helps form a negative judgment of all cyclists" That's an opinion I was asking why in your opinion cyclists "ride like dicks" and are "selfish." If you can't / don't want to justify that, well that is up to you.

This is just sad. To try and understand why you feel like this what makes a cyclist “ride like a dick” or be “selfish.”

again, to try and understand your point of view how do cyclists “not help the cause”

Because they are?

If they were in a car I have little doubt they would act in a similar manner. They are not automatically good people by virtue of being cyclists. That said, in a lot of cases poor or inconsiderate behaviour is probably down to a lack of thought rather than malice. It's like the lone roadie who refuses to cycle in the massive layby and holds up a queue of traffic behind him, he's focusing on his ride and giving no thought to other road users.

again, to try and understand your point of view how do cyclists “not help the cause”

Example of this that I have come across a few time, country lane that’s narrow for two cars (would have slow up or pull in to pass another car). I know it’s perfectly legal to ride two abreast so the riders take up simular width to a small car but it also makes it impossible to over take safety and give room or even pass when coming the over way.

Think that's hard? Try being a cycling vegan teacher 😉

I didn’t at all.

So you don't agree that occasionally some cyclists can be arseholes just like any other road user and that their behaviour can cloud other road users' judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?

I don't think there's any point denying that some cyclists are inconsiderate/annoying and that this affects the wider public's view of cyclists.

The fact that more people regularly drive means it's easier to 'other' cyclists and generalise.

Example of this that I have come across a few time, country lane that’s narrow for two cars (would have slow up or pull in to pass another car). I know it’s perfectly legal to ride two abreast so the riders take up simular width to a small car but it also makes it impossible to over take safety and give room or even pass when coming the over way.

Narrow country lanes... don't overtake cyclists when traffic is coming the other way.

I think the argument can be summed up thusly:

I was on a charity ride on a weekend, riding through a Cambridgeshire village, I transit van pulling a caravan pulled out of a travellers site, frustrated there were a few cyclists on the road they went on the opposite side of the road and a width restriction to overtake while shouting at us to "pay some bloody road tax" while trying to side-swipe me with a caravan after the width restriction. All with no sense of irony.

It's not just cyclists vs non cyclists, i know a few who identify as mountainbikers (and drivers) who hate cyclists (roadies).

People just need someone to hate.

2 simple reasons

1) It's seen as something kids do, and any adult that cycles is viewed with contempt and suspicion

2) If you're on a bike then clearly you're too poor to afford a car, therefore you're an absolute pleb. Get a car, hippy!

IHN makes a good point, I find in France / Corsica / Italy cycling is viewed very differently.

As it was in India, but in India you still stood a good chance of being run over.

it can be a right pain to over take a large group on a country lane

So what. It is also a pain following a slow tractor, slowing down to very slow speed for horses etc,. Everyone has the same right to be on the road and just one of those things you need to accept or maybe just get angry about instead as that is always helpful.

I think its a number of things. One of the biggest is what i call the Clarkson effect. He basically made it acceptable that if you are a car nut you should hate cyclists. This has then been pushed through the media. I believe that by him being allowed to push the view that they should be run off the road its contributed to where we are.

Secondly its the complete inability for people to drive. The standard of driving is very poor around where i live.

Thirdly (coupled with the above) is cyclists having to take "defensive" positioning on the roads to stop cars squeezing by etc. Because the standard of driving is so poor car drivers dont understand this. they just think that its someone who is trying to block their way through. Hence beeps etc.

you clicked on them didn’t you?

This is the way social media works. If you click on something the platform assumes you want to see it more. So the people who hate cyclists see more and more hating cyclists posts, and the cyclists see even more people hating cyclists and the more sensational it is the more it is clicked on (does anyone want boring news?). This polarisation of social habits then gets worse and worse as people only see the far left and right of the arguments over and over again and enter into those arguments more and more. I think i am going to turn it off for a bit.

and that their behaviour can cloud other road users’ judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?

This is the bit that interests me. Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike? Doesn't happen to drivers. Doesn't happen to people pushing shopping trolleys in morrisons. Does happen to teenagers. What triggers society to identify these as 'groups' worth stereotyping and discriminating against?

There's a lot of truth in many of the things above. There's no one easy answer, it's a whole myriad of things. I think the 'out group' one holds a lot of water. It's no longer ok to be overtly racist, sexist, phobic etc so cyclists fit the bill nicely as an "acceptable" replacement target for hate.
We have all seen stereotypical Daily Mail et al articles that brainwashes their Gammon readership. Could it be some of their paymasters are Pro car motor industry types that benefit from this agenda?
I agree with Converts post - I see a LOT of stuff on Twitter about incidents that happen elsewhere - the road cc 'near miss' video's for example - and it makes me more wary/feel more victimised even though I don't experience them myself *that* often (although often enough).

So what. It is also a pain following a slow tractor, slowing down to very slow speed for horses etc,. Everyone has the same right to be on the road and just one of those things you need to accept or maybe just get angry about instead as that is always helpful.

Being held up by a cyclist is different though?

A half decent cyclist in an urban environment could quite easily keep up with a bus. Motorists will sit behind a bus, probably not exactly enjoying the delay but accepting it. Now imagine a bus sized group of cyclist moving through a town or city at a similar speed. The majority of motorists would be absolutely apoplectic after a couple of minutes.

There isn't really a logical explanation for this difference in behaviour, but it exists and it has actual consequences.

Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike?

It absolutely SHOULDN'T happen but in my experience it absolutely does.

Narrow country lanes… don’t overtake cyclists when traffic is coming the other way.

I didn’t mean trying to overtake with traffic coming the other way - I meant meant tight as if a car is just trying to pass two riders abreast when coming the other way. The rides went behind each other for 30 second there would be a bigger gap between them

Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike?

Because science. See my earlier post.

Why should their occasional view of one person acting like a dick whilst on a bike be transferred to everyone who is on a bike? Doesn’t happen to drivers.

EDIT: convert said mostly the same thing already.

I saw an interesting Australian video on this, and apparently is a standard psychological behaviour to attribute the actions of an individual to the whole group if you don't consider yourself part of that group, whereas you attribute them to the individual for a group that you are part of.

Drivers typically consider themselves to be "drivers", so a driver being a dick is a driver being a dick, but cyclists are an "out group" and so a cyclist being a dick is considered representative of all cyclists.

It is of course the same thing that fuels prejudices against other minorities.

You also have confirmation bias. Cyclists don't stop at red lights, so when you see a cyclist not stopping that confirms your bias, and you ignore the majority that do stop.

It's interesting that despite popular perception, all studies I've seen show that cyclists are far more law abiding than motorists. If you encounter a motorist struggling with this idea, you may need to remind them that speeding is against the law.

In referance to the title; It's not a thing outside of the media or FB.

Top gear.

But then you have people using racist terms on this thread to describe others so it's hardly surprising that folk hate for hatings sake.

Pecking order. If you have a car then because you spend so much on it then you have the most right to use the road, everyone else is just there getting in the way and not paying enough for the right,

It’s not just cyclists vs non cyclists, i know a few who identify as mountainbikers (and drivers) who hate cyclists (roadies).

There's quite a few on here like that
🙄

Racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism etc are now all taboo, so the people who have these views but aren't able to express them openly move on to the next convenient and visible minority group to satisfy their infantile need to feel superior to someone. It's quite sad really.

Because we are British and everybody has a problem with something instead of just letting people enjoy what they enjoy and getting on with their own lives.

Its a hobbie for a lot of people to moan about another group of people.

In referance to the title; It’s not a thing outside of the media or FB.

So punishment passes aren't a thing then?

Or away from the roads, trail sabotage never happens? Or less malign but still pretty obvious, the torn face attitude of some other people you share the countryside with simply because you are on two wheels.

So you don’t agree that occasionally some cyclists can be arseholes just like any other road user and that their behaviour can cloud other road users’ judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?

It’s not equivalent.

And it’s also a British thing (and US, Aus to similar degrees, look at the cultural attitudes to cycling in those countries for some answers, compared to those of Switzerland, or The Netherlands, Italy etc))

What I mean is, there are no ‘normal’ cyclists as there are ‘normal’ drivers. There are those drivers who drive considerately and there are drivers who don’t. There are drivers who drive illegally and/or dangerously and there are those who don’t.

While that is true also of people riding bicycles, the overwhelming number of UK drivers do not ride bikes for transport. The culture of the UK for whatever reasons (a whole other topic) is car-culture. So car drivers see someone else diving like a dick, and while they may mutter/shout ‘white van ****er’ or ‘flippin Fiat driver’ or whatever handy ‘othering’ they feel they can rely upon to ‘other’ the dick without implicating drivers in general. They’re hardly going to shout ‘bloody motorist’ or ‘flipping driver!!!’ are they? Because driving is ‘normal’.

Whereas, if same driver witnesses someone on a bicycle behaving like a dick, the driver will be muttering/shouting ‘bloody cyclists!!!’. Not ‘Wilier ****er’, or ‘flipping F W Evans rider!!!’ There are no ‘normal’ cyclists in his/her mind. Just annoying dicks called ‘cyclists’.

The entire action of riding a bicycle on the road (in the UK) became ‘othered’.

Add to that, the majority of UK drivers have very poor to no knowledge of the legality, codes and reasons of and for cycling on public highways by which to judge whether said cyclist is being ‘dickish’ vs ‘safe and legal’.

Drivers don’t see each other taking the primary. They are the primary.

Culture + othering + entitlement/projection + ignorance + wound up by tabloidism covers most of it.

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race" - H.G. Wells

When I was a kid, if you saw an adult on a bicycle they either (A) had stolen it, (B) were drunk, or (C) had lost their driving license, or (D) A, B and C.

If you think about it, cyclists are just another group that have an identity thrust upon them by society. In the same way that “golfers” are or “BMW drivers” are. Society lends them a group identity, golfers are all regarded as social climbing middle aged businessmen etc etc... cyclists are perceived by a lot of folk as either do-gooder environmentalists or Lycra clad roadie types.

Think that’s hard? Try being a cycling vegan teacher 😉

Yeah, try being vegan, cyclist and eu imigrant. 🙂

So you don’t agree that occasionally some cyclists can be arseholes just like any other road user and that their behaviour can cloud other road users’ judgement of the majority of normal cyclists?

Im going to take this response as you can't or don't want to justify why you said cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.”

If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.

Why should they like cyclists?

Telling that in this thread there is an 'othering' stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it's not cyclists.

The thing is, if you have to ask this question it means you are incapable of seeing the world from other peoples point of view and are therefore part of the problem. It is like a member of the aristocracy saying "anti hunting. Why is it a thing?" Well it is a thing because despite what happens in your own world, others see things from a different perspective and as the result of different experiences.

The better question to ask might be "Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?

One of the biggest is what i call the Clarkson effect

I'd agree with this.
I've seen a couple of episodes of a certain ITV quiz show, where when a contestant says they are a cyclist, the chicken-in-a-basket-comedian host pulls faces and says things like I hope you don't ride on the roads where I live. Gets a laugh from the audience every time. **** lockdown, or I never would've watched his moronic shite.

Im going to take this response as you can’t or don’t want to justify why you said cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.”

I said 'a significant minority'. Don't try to twist my words.

If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.

I presume this is a piss take?

Telling that in this thread there is an ‘othering’ stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it’s not cyclists.

Agree, what also amazes me is how a forum for cyclists some people to still fail to see it from a cyclists point of view. We are one, you made choose to ride trail, road, gravel, track but we are still cyclists.

The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?

You're absolutely spot on welshfarmer but if you don't understand why a certain prejudice exists it's hard to change perceptions.

Try being a cycling vegan teacher 😉

Virtue-signalling hat trick. I bet you talk about riding your little bike, and cooking your little lentils, and brainwashing the tikes into lauding the lycra-wearing lefty lebensraum, don’t you?

Not as if you're talking about normal stuff such as cars and bacon butties and IT, but as if you’re some kind of super-special virtuous little leftie liberal sparkly unicorn. </Clarkson>

Advertising must also take some of the blame. Car adverts offer a freedom that doesn't exist in reality. Consumers spend tens of thousands on posh cars that do 100+mph, then get stuck in urban jams of their own making. That must be frustrating and it certainly isn't the dream they were sold. Jealously watching 'bloody cyclists' sail past, having paid a paltry sum for their mode of transport simply builds resentment. They'll never question their own life choices as that's 'normal' to them, far easier to adopt a little media stoked 'othering'.

its telling that even on a cycling forum, a significant amount hold the opinion that cyclists on the road are an inconvenience and should always yield to the motorist.

The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?

If you don’t know (or even agree) ‘how’ it happened you’ll never even get to know (or even agree) how to change it.

The better question to ask might be “Anti cycling sentiment. What can be done to reduce it and bring about better acceptance among the wider population?

Is this basically victim blaming? - Drivers are the most dangerous users of the road so they must adjust their behaviour to fit in.

I said ‘a significant minority’. Don’t try to twist my words.

I have asked you like 3 or 4 times now to explain why you think this but you seem incapable. Have a good day im off to cook lunch.

Some people just love a moan.
Became very apparent in lockdown1 - whatever your choice of daily excersise:
bike,
run,
walk,
walk so stupidly slowly there is no way it could be considered exercise,
then you moaned about everyone going faster and/or slower than you, because obviously only your choice was the correct one.

Every bike forum thread about this toic will bring out similar sentiments, car drivers are bad, BMW/white vans are bad, drivers speed, why cant they leave 5 mins earlier; and they get a nice nod and murmur of agreement from other cyclists and feel good about themselves, not seeing that they are doing the exact same thing that we are moaning about on here.

I have asked you like 3 or 4 times now to explain why you think this but you seem incapable.

Not at all incapable, it is simply such a straight-forward statement that I don't see how trying to reframe the wording of why I believe that the actions of a minority of one group of road users help cloud the judgement of a minority of other road users.

Because people are basically utter ****s and love to have something or someone to hate.

Telling that in this thread there is an ‘othering’ stereotype about people who are perceived to not pay their share of taxes, but it’s not cyclists.

It was subtle but there 🙂

I hated them because they tried to kill me, literally I had to brake to avoid being side-swiped with a caravan. I don't really care if they paid their taxes (I have no firm evidence of whether they did or didn't, same as you) - but that wasn't the relevant point really, more that I was worth removing from the road by force because I didn't, although I did at the time own a car that cost £300+ in ved.

I presume this is a piss take?

Do you disagree?

If there were no cyclists on the roads, driving a car would be less stressful for the majority of drivers who are anxious to drive safely in all situations. They would also reach their destinations marginally quicker for some journeys.

Do you disagree?

But you could make the exact same observation about pretty much anything on the road that wasn't a car. Tractors, horses, busses, HGVs etc. But special ire seems to be reserved for cyclists.

Not at all incapable, it is simply such a straight-forward statement that I don’t see how trying to reframe the wording of why I believe that the actions of a minority of one group of road users help cloud the judgement of a minority of other road users.

I disagree, you made a statement but have't been able to provide any examples or further clarification as to why cyclists “ride like dicks” and are “selfish.” Its simply your opinion, and you're entitled to that. I however decided to push you on it because you are basically blaming cyclists for the issue.

For for example, if I say drivers drive like dicks ands are selfish its because

1. A driver to tried to push me into some parked cars last week at close to 20mph (i was in a 20mph zone) which could have results in a serious injury, all because I had "taken up too much space on the road" and am "not allowed to cycle in the middle of the road"

or,

2. A driver this morning punish passed me because I stopped him passing me when there was an island in the middle of the road. I as the vulnerable road user took the primary position and decided there wasn't enough space for us to both pass through in a safe way.

and as a bonus.

3. A few years ago a driver basically t-boned me because he thought he could get across a junction quicker than me.

Feel free to rip those apart and try and blame me as "selfish" or "riding like a dick" but every single one of those incidents was the drivers fault. I would go as far as saying in the majority of incidents involving a bike and a vehicle the vehicle is to blame.

Because 2 abreast mainly. Thats what boils my piss anyway.