[Closed] Another step up the middle-class ladder

you're not climbing the ladder without a pansonic...

to much time on your hands mate

I'm fairly certain you have to put seeds of some description into it otherwise it's not a middle class step up.

Just going for plain white.

Tbh, if you can't manage a plain white bloomer without tips then forget it.

Try not to overthink it mol.

Have you grown your own wheat ?

And of course milled it yourself.

TEPID water for the yeast.

And yes, making white bread is not middle class. White bread is the bread of the underclass. You need wholemeal. With sliced olives etc.

This is one of those things that everyone goes through at some point. Before you realise that all the kneading, mess, failed attempts and washing up is just not worth the ballache, and it's easier to just buy a loaf 🙂

That said, it's great fun, and your house will smell lovely.

Sometimes when wheat was being fed from the hopper to the millstones, if the feed was too fast, or if stones had got into the grain, the millstones would stop. This is where the phrase "grinding to a halt" comes from.

TEPID water for the yeast.

Nope, it can be cold. If it's cold, the prove takes longer and happens more slowly which gives a better loaf.

Use fresh yeast. You can get it from supermarket bakery counters, you have to ask for it though.

560g Strong White Flour
10g Fresh yeast
10g salt
20g rapeseed/olive oil
300ml tepid water.

Knead for 15mins by hand or 10mins in a mixer.

Leave to prove in a covered bowl for 30mins to an hour. Take out of bowl and shape/place in oiled loaf tin. Cover with oiled cling film and leave to prove for further 30mins. Turn oven to 230deg C with baking stone/tray in. When up to temperature put oven dish with water at top of oven, this will provide steam. Put loaf tin/loaf onto baking stone/tray, slash with sharp knife/lame. Bake for 22 mins.

Enjoy.

I think it elevates you slightly higher than the frightful middle orders Molls

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/david-cameron-i-dont-know-the-price-of-value-bread--i-have-a-breadmaker-8851444.html ]What would Dave use?[/url]

You can bake middle class bread with white flour - you just need to have some one polish build you a stone oven in the garden.

Can I do my middle class bread joke?

Woman walks into local organic everything shop.

Woman to shopkeeper: "I want to bake my own bread have you got any unusual flour?"
Shopkeeper: "Spelt?"
Woman "F-L-O-U-R!"

I thank you.

Ciabatta surely? Tiger bread at the very least?

Anyone that thinks this represents having too much time on their hands is an idiot! You don't have to stand and watch the bread rise you know…

10 minutes mixing and kneading - make in a big bowl to contain the mess
I don't use fresh yeast and the results are excellent
a further few mins shaping the loaf
You need to be nearby whilst it is in the oven, but it does not require any attention.

Total time spent prob 15 mins tops.

Tbh, if you can't manage a plain white bloomer without tips then forget it.

hear hear

🙂

I'm going to try and make my own bread today. Without a machine.
Any tips?

Google no-knead. Mix it up, wait 12h(ish), bung in the oven, job's a goodun. Using your own sourdough is a niche further...

Knead for 15mins...Leave to prove in a covered bowl for 30mins to an hour... Cover with oiled cling film and leave to prove for further 30mins...Bake for 22 mins.

What happens if you leave it to prove for a lot longer? eg do the kneading go away do sommat else, finish off a few hours later.

Tbh, if you can't manage a plain white bloomer without tips then forget it.

How do I know if I don't need tips if I don't ask?

I've never tried it before.. lots of recipes online, some variations, I just thought I'd see what STW people do.

Sugar or no?

What's the water in the oven actually do? Some online people do use it, some don't.

Tiger bread at the very least?

No way, they sell that at Asda.

Sometimes when wheat was being fed from the hopper to the millstones, if the feed was too fast, or if stones had got into the grain, the millstones would stop. This is where the phrase "grinding to a halt" comes from.

Jesus christ I could have walked to the shop bought some of warbies finest thick cut, toasted and eaten most of it before you put yours in the oven. And be halfway round a ride before you get to actually slice your loaf.

I see your point, but this is true of lots of food you make from first principles no? Where's the satisfaction? I'm not sure mol is planning to never buy a loaf again but the satisfaction in making bread yourself is great. Why make spag bol from mince, tomatoes, garlic, herbs and the rest when you can go to the shop and buy some Findus Horse version from the freezer section for £1.99 and fee the family?

Every day is a school day, thanks DD.

😳

I may have recorded an episode or two of Paul Hollywood's [i]Bread[/i]. 🙂

How do I know if I don't need tips if I don't ask?

Best tip I could give,just get on with it or you will miss your bread making window of opportunity 😆

[i] Tiger bread at the very least?

No way, they sell that at Asda. [/i]

It's a sign of the times. I saw a middle class lady queuing up in ASDA last week with fresh veg in her trolley. Obviously the cashier didn't know how to process it so she just passed it through as 3lbs of chocolate cake.

There's a worrying number of people on this thread who've seen the inside of an Asda supermarket.

s...nob 🙂

There's a worrying number of people on this thread who've seen the inside of an Asda supermarket.

It helps keep hoi polloi out of Waitrose, donchaknow.

Jesus christ I could have walked to the shop bought some of warbies finest thick cut, toasted and eaten most of it before you put yours in the oven. And be halfway round a ride before you get to actually slice your loaf.

What happens if you leave it to prove for a lot longer? eg do the kneading go away do sommat else, finish off a few hours later.

Its finished when kneaded to prove just means let it rise at least once before baking.

Molly ignore all this "advice" its a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it - just enjoy and know they will get better

its easier to cook rolls than a loaf as you will cook them all the way through

I see your point, but this is true of lots of food you make from first principles no?

I will give it a go at some point i guess, the fresh stuff [b]is[/b] nice and all but I struggle to get very excited about bread* so CBA making my own unlike other food stuffs.

*altho I am incredibly OCD about making sure my worthless mass produced bread doesn't get squashed - humans, weird or what?

On a related issue...

Why did the baker have brown hands?

I like Asda, I prefer their green colourscheme to the blue and red of Tesco and the orange Sainsbury's. Morrison's yellow is okay, but their employees are a bit scary. Asda is upfront, no hiding behind any pretensions. And the tiger bread is addictive.

Why I choose supermarkets on the basis of their brand colours really don't know.

[i]only something to wrap around ham and salad or dip in soup[/i]

Only? ONLY?!

Bread is the finest food stuff known to humankind, dontchaknow.

I've eaten bread pretty much everyday for 47 years and I still look forward to my morning toast and lunchtime sandwiches. Not for the filling or spreads but for the lovely bread that accompanies them.

If all you do is dip it in soup or wrap it around ham for a sandwich, then yeah, off to the supermarket with you! 🙂

Tips:
* choose a recipe and stick with it for a few goes, so you get to see what difference small changes make.
* I like the [url= http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bertinet+kneading ]Bertinet kneading[/url] method
* I mix the easy-yeast in with the warmish water and leave it for five or ten minutes before adding to the flour
* sourdough is better than using yeast - making bread from just some gloop from the fridge, flour, water and salt is ace - but if you miss a few weeks the starter get too sour
* shower caps make great covers for when proving
* putting the dough in the fridge retards to proving so you can control when you have to do the baking a bit more

Follow @evilgordon or @planbreadbakery on Twitter for bread inspiration and tips

It helps keep hoi polloi out of Waitrose, donchaknow.

Not in Andover it doesn't. Or at least not me. I'll use which ever has what I need, which inevitably means Asda, Waitrose and Lidl

A bread machine is far more middle class anyway - outsourcing the manual effort of kneading and moving items to and from the oven.

[url= http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/making-a-crusty-white-loaf/ ]This is a winner every time[/url]

[url= http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/our-version-of-a-pain-rustique/ ]As is this for when you fancy a go at a sourdough[/url]

Cooked in a domestic, electric oven?

Wood fired is the way forward if you want to climb the ladder...

Not in Andover it doesn't.

Well, as any fule kno, that's because Andover is entirely hoi polloi! 😉

Should be in Thyme & Tide buying something nicely organic instead! 😉 (Incidentally, have just had a rather lovely picture of Little Miss CFH having her lunch in that very spot a little while ago!)

How old is your sourdough starter?

You don't have a sourdough starter?

pleb.

ignore all this "advice" its a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it - just enjoy and know [s]they[/s] that it will get better

Junkyard could post this on 95.6% of all STW threads 😀

Everyone knows that the only test of the quality or otherwise of bread is its suitability for fish finger butties. Thus anything other than this.....

[img] ?identifier=305c66634c155cab2b5cc3ce00351eb1[/img]

... is entirely superfluous, and quite frankly... a bit gay

I have a much neglected sourdough starter in a tupperware box in the back of the fridge - no matter how long I leave it sleeping it still seems to work just fine when I wake it up.

I always find that after I have been tinkering around with a gearbox and my hands are ingrained with that thick black grease there is nothing better than kneading dough to get them really clean again.

I liked the Bertinet video.

I always find that after I have been tinkering around with a gearbox and my hands are ingrained with that thick black grease there is nothing better than kneading dough to get them really clean again.

My Nan used to tell me - making pastry is an excellent way to get really clean fingernails (i.e. clean your fingernails first!)

Well, the flour we bought was actually wholemeal, which is fine cos I like wholemeal bread, but the consistency of the dough seemed a bit.. well, heavy.. I had to add more water than the recipe and it still seemed hard going. Also the yeast was dried active yeast so it was in granules in a tin rather than in a sachet. It had to be mixed with water, so I mixed it with the water that went in the bread.

We'll see how it goes.

[img] [/img]

[s]Bread[/s] cake is the finest food stuff known to humankind, dontchaknow.

dd I do make more exciting butties than ham 🙂
Go on then, has anyone got an easy recipe for ciabatta? or does that need special oven?

Go molgrips!

I'm gradually working my way through Paul Hollywood bread recipies.
Ciabatta was fun and very messy.
Fresh pittas were amazing.
Seem to have bypassed the basic recipies.

Plan to build a wood fired oven in the garden, hopefully next year. I'm on a mission to make pizza as good as we ate on the Amalfi coast.

i used to make my own bread, then this place opened down the road from me.

[url= http://whitleybaybakery.co.uk/Home/About ]bready[/url]

my god, I have never tasted bread as good as this.

Make sure the finished article looks [s]a mess[/s] 'artisan.'

Plan to build a wood fired oven in the garden, hopefully next year. I'm on a mission to make pizza as good as we ate on the Amalfi coast.

Having just had a two week holiday in Italy this summer (inc Amalfi Coast), I still think Pizza Express makes nicer Pizzas than most Italian restaurants...

Just going for plain white.

that will be "artisan post industrial" then

Any tips? Just going for plain white.

then...

Well, the flour we bought was actually wholemeal

😆 😆 😆

footflaps.
Luckily we were stopping in a village (Maiori) where the tourists were generally Italian. Restaurants were excellent and even takeaway pizza was awesome. The MacDonalds in the village shut down due to lack of custom.
This was a few years ago, so things may have changed.

Yeah I thought the flour was white, then I checked in the cupboard. In my defence, the BAG is white 🙂

Molly ignore all this "advice" its a bit of trial and error till you get the hang of it - just enjoy and know they will get better

Ta.. but what I'm not sure about is what to change if it doesn't come out right. For example, last time my wife tried the bread tasted fine and was even textured just really dense, like concentrated bread. Underproved, I guess...?

Yeah I thought the flour was white, then I checked in the cupboard. In my defence, the BAG is white

[img] [/img]

he dough seemed a bit.. well, heavy

You should feel the texture change though whilst kneading- did you?
IME it never rises as much as white and wont taste like shop bought bread which tends to use the Chorleywood method.
as for water no idea i never measure for i am a true [s]artisan[/s] king of trial and error

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/ciabatta_85453
DONK dead easy no kneading and plenty of ride time with a 3-12 hour rise time- not tried it myself

That was 40 mins. It's bigger but it's still pretty hard, not feeling particularly aereated like they say. Maybe wholemeal takes longer to rise?

[img] [/img]

I did knead it into elasticity, but that was maybe 4-5 mins, some folk are suggesting 15 mins of kneading for wholemeal. They are also suggesting adding gluten, which I donm't really want to do.

temperature affects how long it takes to rise [ colder = longer but there is no rush. Many recommend slow rise for flavour - i used to do it in the fridge over night!] so just be patient- looks like it is working fine base don your first picture

I thought the 15 mins was way OTT I reckon about 5 minutes for mine - you can feel it in the flour when it has stretched tbh
Wholemeal will never rise as much as white IME so doubling may not happen - dont worry it will sink it you wait too long in which case just knead and either proof a second time or shape and rise before baking

I never did full wholemeal just did a mix of white and wholemeal, as wholemeal always ends up very dense.

I did knead it into elasticity, but that was maybe 4-5 mins, some folk are suggesting 15 mins of kneading for wholemeal.

You almost always need to knead for longer than you think. You can always knead it and then leave it for a bit before kneading again.

Fresh Yeast

I reckon if that's all wholemeal, what you're in the process of making there mol is a doorstop.

I was thinking some kind of building material.

Anyway - it seemed to prove ok, this took about 30 mins

[img] [/img]

And this is it after I waited for the oven to heat up:

[img] [/img]

It's in now - fingers crossed 🙂

Those cuts need to be at a more acute angle. You've wrecked it.

I tried two loaves at this week 50/50 White/Rye flour which was like a brick and my kids didn't hestitate to tell me so!
Then made 75/25 white/rye flour and let it prove for 45mins, knocked it back and then 2nd proving for aboout 3-4hrs. Was very nice indeed.

Sometimes when wheat was being fed from the hopper to the millstones, if the feed was too fast, or if stones had got into the grain, the millstones would stop. This is where the phrase "grinding to a halt" comes from.

DD, you are Jack Hargreaves from "How" and "Out of Town" and I claim my five pounds! 😉

Looks lovely Molly well done you

Knead for at least 10mins for white and at least 15 for wholemeal. Time it, kneading is probably the single thing that will make a difference to the loaf, most people don't knead for long enough. Sugar will make it prove faster and the bread will be sweeter (duh). Salt will slow it down, oil will make the bread last longer.

[i]... is entirely superfluous, and quite frankly... a bit gay[/i]

Oh binners 😥

Knead for AR least 10mins for white and at least 15 for wholemeal. Time it, kneading is probably the single thing that will make a difference to the loaf

/baking equivalent of a wheel size debate

[img] [/img]

I was pretty pleased with this until I realised it's the same weight (800g) as the supermarket bloomers, and a lot smaller. Building material it is then.

Might be a "learner" mol. 🙂

If it's too dense, let it go stale and make breadcrumbs from it.

It's a learner of ocurs,e it's my first effort 🙂

I'll make compact sandwiches out of it - same amount of food, takes up less space. And saves on cheese.

No Moly you need more cheese 😉

IMO it will make better toast if its dense.

I'll make compact sandwiches out of it - same amount of food, takes up less space. And saves on cheese.

Love it, I will steal that as my excuse too if you don't mind. 🙂

Time it, kneading is probably the single thing that will make a difference to the loaf,

Mollly - something to be proud of - no one can make supermarket style bread as its pish- you could take their bread and roll it up into a ball - you can only do that with fast proof chorleywood type breads not proper breads so dont think yours is wrong

Looks fine to me for a first attempte

Well I had a slice, it was quite good actually. Dense, but still soft and quite mouth-melting so very easy to eat. Tasted lovely too. My wife reckoned it was ideal soup bread. It had the consistency of soda bread.

I was going for supermarket fresh baked wholemeal style, not the packet stuff, and I rekcon this tastes better but isn't quite as fluffy.

Next time I'll try one of the things I read about for improving wholemeal bread making:

Adding vitamin C (but this is an additive so maybe cheating)
Kneading longer
Adding some white flour, although I want to make wholemeal bread not just brown.

I'd love to try granary bread but I can't get granary flour in the local supermarket. Malt would be nice too.

this tastes better but isn't quite as fluffy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process