[Closed] Another multi-fuel stove query

My current favourite  https://www.stovesareus.co.uk/parkray-aspect-4-wood-burning-stove.html

Apart from the ash retainer, which is rubbish.  I normally just screw a piece of solid steel plate over it to cover the holes.

Otherwise, you can't go wrong with a Clearview Pioneer.  Bit pricier though.

We have 2x Clearview Pioneers at each end of the house - but only an X-reg Toyota on the drive 😉

Thanks, forgot to say £1k is Max budget for the stove

1. How big is the room, 5w will be too hot for many lounges

2. You do know log burners are very very bad for your health (possibly) but certainly more so than diesel cars

https://www.****/sciencetech/article-6402031/Wood-burning-stoves-emit-six-times-pollution-diesel-truck.html

Dik Geurtz Ivar 5 here. First log burner so not much to compare it against, but very happy with it so far

The room needs ~3.5kw so anything less than 5 should be okay

A small stove run hard is much cleaner than a big stove ticking over if that’s a concern to you.

+1 for the clearview stove.... We have two and they're very good.

I think for a modern house I'd be looking for something a little less trad though.

Morning bump

Yeoman CL3

We've got a charnwood c4, not too modern or too traditional.

We have a Morso S11 stove and are very happy with it, so much so its the second one we've had having the same one fitted in the previous house a few years before moving. particularly like the way its made and that it uses recycled materials as well as the heat output.

How big is the room, 5w will be too hot for many lounges

However the really small ones (3.5kw) are often too small to fit standard logs in so can become an almighty pain.

We got a Parkray Aspect 4 - still a very compact stove but able to accommodate full size logs and has a great big glass front so lots of viewing space to watch the logs burning. It is also incredibly easy to light and control. And the glass stays wonderfully clear - I think I have only cleaned it about half a dozen times in the three winters it has been fitted (and used every night during the winter).

And - *DON'T* get a multi-fuel if you are only going to burn wood as they are more expensive and have less room to actually fit logs in.

Definitely err on the smaller side so that you are burning hotter and hence cleaner. It's idling stoves that pollute.

We have a Dovre 250, which makes our largish lounge extremely hot. You need to pay as much attention to the wood and the wood store as you do the stove and flue. A breezy south-facing spot is ideal for the store.

I have a 4.5kw Westfire 35 multifuel which is a perfect size for the room (approx 5m x 5m), never had an issue with log size, but only really takes one at a time of a decent sized chunk. I went for modern box style, but actually on hindsight the likes of that Parkray Aspect 4 ^ might have suited my room better.

We’ve got a Heta 45 which so far has been awesome. We paid less than £1k from our local stove shop. Gets up to temp and kicks out heat quickly and also has a good depth on the firebox so you can get reasonable amount of wood in rather thank having to keep loading it.

if you live anywhere near Macclesfield the stove shop down near screwfix has lots on display and also working models

thanks all

I've re-measured the room and we need 3.78 kw so my thinking is up to 5kw.

I'd prefer multi-fuel as a bit of coal will generate the heat then chuck some wood on to make it pretty. I never realised that there was so much choice...crikey.

then chuck some wood on to make it pretty

if thats all you want, put the central heating on and get one of those fake ones...

You'll find that unless you have enough space to store a years worth of wood you won't be able to buy seasoned wood half way through winter so its handy to have multifuel in my experience.

I’d prefer multi-fuel as a bit of coal

Make sure the flue is up to the job then - the extra heat can kill steel liners quite quickly.

Yes, you will have to start with kiln-dried wood while your log store seasons. Do NOT burn coal in your stove, burn smokeless nuggets. Given enough oxygen, coal burns white hot and will melt the inside of the stove and crack the fire bricks.

I've just found this, which I wrote to somebody a few years ago when they were considering getting a stove:

The first thing you need to do is find a local chimney sweep and get him to come and assess your flue. The quality of the flue is vital for the creation of a rising column of hot gases, which creates a low pressure and sucks the air through your stove. He might recommend that you get your flue lined with an expensive stainless steel liner; you will need to question him about this because the liner, at over £60 a metre, can be half your stove cost, which is a nice earner for him. If you're lucky enough to live in a modern house, which has a chimney, the flue might be made from a stack of concentric clay rings and in good condition. Older houses will have a square section flue built out of brick and it's likely that the mortar might be in poor condition allowing gases to escape and necessitating a liner. A liner is good in any case because it's smooth inside and will be packed in insulating material, meaning it will warm up fast (cold brick takes longer) and encourage the gases to rise in a nice thin column. A warmer flue means less condensation, which produces tar and creosote and less nasty acidic liquid attacking the brickwork or the liner. Get him to quote you for a chimney cowl (must be stainless) and check the flaunching around your pot.

Once you've sorted the flue, start thinking about the stove. Here is my view on the pros and cons:

Wood burner: You are limited to wood only but wood burners usually have spacious grates and big windows giving a lovely effect. However it takes a bit of practice and plenty of small pieces of fuel to create the all-important bed of embers on which to burn your logs. Logs alone in an empty grate don't burn very well.

Multi-fuel: more choice of fuels and easier to create the bed of embers with some smokeless nuggets, which will glow all evening and on which you can burn logs if you wish. Will easily stay in all night. Usually a smaller grate. We have two Dovre 250s, which we think are about perfect.

The best advice I was ever given was to err on the side of a smaller stove, which you will be burning harder and therefore hotter and cleaner - nothing looks worse than an oversize stove, shut down and smoking up the glass.

Once you've decided on the stove the next thing is to think about your log store. You need somewhere well ventilated where you can stack the logs and air will pass through them to dry them. Most wood merchants or tree surgeons will deliver big builders' bags of logs, which will have been heaped in a barn and so will be semi dry and not really ready for burning. A full summer is sometimes enough to get those logs dry enough - you can tell they're ready by the radial shrinkage splits in the ends and the ringing sound when you bang two together. Buy a moisture meter as well from Machine Mart. Don't allow anybody to sell you larch; there's a glut of it at the moment. It produces a nasty wet smelly tar, which will dribble down the flue if you haven't got it thoroughly hot.

Get the stove installed by the chimney sweep; this will make you a good customer who he'll be happy to come back and sweep for at shortish notice or attend to any problems. He will fit a sweeping port in the flue for future convenience.

Next go and buy your coal scuttle, log basket, tools, some spare door seal rope and glue, some glass cleaner gel, a tipper box for the ashes and your multi-fuel nuggets and kindling and a huge box of fire lighters.

Then fit a TRV to the radiator in the lounge to prevent you from overheating when 'er indoors has got everything on full whack and is still sitting moaning about feeling cold. Finally, start to enjoy your stove. You will find that it sucks so much air out of the room that the atmosphere will always be comfortably dry, not steamy as it can be with gas fires.

However it takes a bit of practice and plenty of small pieces of fuel to create the all-important bed of embers on which to burn your logs. Logs alone in an empty grate don’t burn very well.

Pardon my rudeness but cobblers. Modern wood stoves light very, very easily. We use a single waxed paper style firelighter with whatever smallish bits of wood we have to hand (currently starting our fires with smaller branches cut from a sycamore we felled last autumn then adding larger logs from the same tree). I very rarely fail to light it first time.

On the other hand, our much older Morso we had in our last place was painful to light - so much so we only bothered about once a week. if that.

I’ve re-measured the room and we need 3.78 kw so my thinking is up to 5kw.

I'd be a bit careful when looking at "claimed" 5kw stoves. When I was looking there seemed to be some quite big differences in firebox size at 5kw. It made me wonder if companies somehow conveniently make their stoves fit in the most popular 5kw band to get within building regs thresholds and therefore in the most popular band, when in fact it was capable of a fair bit more heat output at it's most efficient burn. So, any stove claimed as 4.5kw or less is presumably definitely a less than 5kw stove otherwise they'd be claiming 5kw, it being the most popular threshold. I might be talking cobblers, but my Sister's big Contura 51L 5kw belts out a load more heat than my 4.5kw stove.

B.A.Nana - that is precisely what our stove installer said happens (any more than 5kw and you need to have fixed ventilation in place). Apparently the test is based on an the output of a fixed amount of fuel rather than being based on filling the firebox to optimum amount for maximum output.

And I just checked and the Parkray Aspect 4 that we have has a nominal output of 4.9kw. The Bigger Parkray Aspect 5 (and even the 6 and 7) have a nominal output of 4.9kw too, despite being much bigger.

@globalti - newish house with no chimney so we'll need a 6-7m flue on the gable end.

Update: we went to look at some stoves today and the choice is bewildering.

What are the main differences between cast iron and steel stoves?

A cold morning bump

Steel ones are cheaper generally. They also heat up more quickly (great for evenings in) but cast ones stay warm longer.

And supposedly cast iron is a softer heat.  That's a huge over generalisation though. I wouldn't select a stove based on steel Vs cast iron as a criteria.

Thanks

Anyone got an Aga Ellesmere? It's probably one of the few stoves we both like

On the advice of a few salespeople i got a 12kw freestanding woodburner, the room is c 25m2 footprint and double height, secondary heating source so they used a formula to get 10kw.  Anyway, the 5kw jobbies would look tiny in a big room.

All fitted, I had a big back plate made and sprayed up in anthracite colour to match the stove.  Whole setup looks really good even when not burning.

Logs i bought 3 years ago and are nicely seasoned, even the big ones burn nicely.  Gets going really quickly.  Bit smoky on start up but that's only 20 mins and its going well.

Deffo put another one in next house.

I bet that's warm!  10kW in 25m2  eek.

BTW, if you are planning on smokelss coal/nuggets AND wood get a very very good liner.  smokeless nuggets are a petroleum product and have a high sulphur content, particularly the cheap imports.  sulphur plus the steam from burning wood = sulphuric acid.  Personally I'd choose one or the other, never both, but if you do then pay for a very good 904 grade liner.

smokeless ...bit of giggle really.  I've been outside swapping car tyres over this afternoon and could smell coal smoke, looked up to the shared chimney with my neighbour and yep, could see the wisps of smoke from his flue..i know he burns smokeless coal/nuggets.  my own 2 live pots...just a clear heat haze as the 2 stoves chug away on 2 year seasoned wood, heating the house for free.

Q for the Parkray Aspect owners... It only has a 2 year warranty which makes me a little nervous despite it's obvious loveliness.

Anyone had any issues with theirs?

What are the main differences between cast iron and steel stoves?

Steel stoves have welded seams and generally will remain sealed as long as the door seal is OK - this may make them more controllable as there shouldn't be any stray air leaking in.
Steel doesn't crack.

Cast iron heats up slower but cools down slower also - this does not seem to be an advantage to me as I want heat as quickly as possible after lighting the stove, but I don't really care what happens after I've gone to bed.

Cast stoves can, and do, crack which leads to air leaks and less control.

Thanks

over fire a steel stove and it can crack welds, they aren't 'better' per se.  As for which heats up faster, it has more to do with thickness of steel or weight, and design.  I've a steel and a cast iron stove, the cast iron one throws the more 'brutal' heat ime.... Different designs.

Don't worry too much about over fire with a 5kw and wood... It'll probably burn through the fuel before doing damage.  More a problem if you use smokeless, and don't use house coal, that will cause trouble I suspect.  Burnt baffles, burnt grates and ultimately damage to the case.

I’d go small as you can. We have a 6kw stove in a 36sqm room and it can get pretty toasty. Easy to raise the the room 5 degrees or more in an hour or so.

Johndoh So much cobblers in his post it's hard to tell where the good information is....there is some good stuff in-between the codswallop mis-information .

Update: stove ordered, fitter booked.

Logs. My plan was to buy a big bulk bag of kiln dried from a local supplier to get us going and store it in the garage until we get a log store. So now I'll need to build/buy a log store in garden. I've seen a few threads on here over the years about building your own to a higher quality for about the same price as buying one but can't seem to find them now. Does anyone have a good design they can share?

Alternatively, can anyone recommend a decent quality one from a good company to deal with?

Edit: Thanks for all of the help

A bit late now to answer:

Q for the Parkray Aspect owners… It only has a 2 year warranty which makes me a little nervous despite it’s obvious loveliness.

Anyone had any issues with theirs?

But ours is (just) two years old and has been entirely problem free so far. And we have just ordered our first bag of seasoned logs having just got through pretty much the entire of a 35ft sycamore this winter so far LOL!

re logstore. I bought a load of cheap 2nd hand ikea Ivar shelving off gumtree/ebay and used it as a frame to put on sides and a lid

any more log store ideas?

scaffold pipe, wooden top with some slates on it.

Depending upon the volume of logs (and space) you've got, empty IBC cages are excellent for keeping logs in.
I've got 12 cages full right now and will be buying another 10. They each hold 1m3 and cost about £15 each - I also bought a pump truck for £50 off eBay so I can now move 'big' volumes of logs around in minutes.

If you need a cover just cut the IBC tank (if it came with one) in half diagonally and you've got two roofs for cages.

Mine earlier this year:
[IMG] [/IMG]