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Here’s the answer: HUMANS TRUMP DOGS. That’s it, end of thread.
Indeed and some humans choose to have dogs and this doesn't excuse abuse of dogs or killing them if a dog approaches you. Nor does it excuse dog owners form not training their dogs or cleaning up after them. If you get unwanted attention from a dog then take it up with the owner. If they're not a dick they will be apologetic I'm sure, so long as you're not abusive then all bets are off. Not sure how I would act if I was profusely apologising to someone about my dogs behaviour and they hurled abuse at me...would probably result with a swift retraction of my apology and a tirade of verbal abuse back..and I'm half Glaswegian and well schooled in the art of verbal abuse, so not many people can trump me when it comes to verbal abuse. We can all be dicks when we want to be. It's an affliction all humans suffer.
Is it just me or is a good part of this problem is that there are just too many dogs?
Think this is a big part of the problem. Lockdown has not only seen an increase in dog ownership, probably from alot of inexperienced dog owner newbies (me included) as well as a restriction on where people take their dogs for walks. Also couple that with people who wouldn't normally take a walk around their local villag/town/estate suddenly peeling themselves away form whatever box set they're watcing, then you have a much higher rate of dog/human interactions. So no surprise there is an increase in complaints and problems..it is inevitable. Now that lockdown is easing it will be interesting if we see this reduce as more people take their dogs further afield for walks like alot of dog owners would normally do.
Well this thread has certainly been something of a rollercoaster that must be on at least it's third revolution now.
It all comes down one thing at the end of the day, people can and will be dicks who are incapable of seeing how dickish they are even when called out about it. OP had that issue, as have many others who have shared anecdotes on this thread.
Are there too many dogs. Yes, absolutely. And I say this as a dog owner. Dog rescues are full to bursting and having to turn perfectly healthy dogs away ( almost certainly to get euthanised ) because of lockdown puppies. Puppies that, if people who got them actually took an ounce of responsibility and properly trained & socialised them would not have turned into canine hooligans. Even at hooligan stage, if people took their responsibility seriously enough they could resolve it but no... easier to just give them away.
As the owner of a large canine athlete who was a complete hooligan when we got him I am not going to deny that the journey was hard - it is. It took time with a good trainer who spent more time training me than the hound.
Just like anything else, being a good dog owner is a skill that you have to learn. Some things you can just tick off - the easy ones are discussed in this thread. Pick up the crap, put your dog on a lead when asked, don't let it near other people or dogs unless you have appropriate permission. Very simple things that don't require any skill - just a bit of decency and common sense. The skill is training your dog like the Lab that @Cougar mentioned - I know I neither have that level of skill nor an animal that will respond in the same way - so my hound stays on the lead everywhere.
Sensible dog owners don’t need to modify their behaviour, because they’re sensible. If they’re being asked to modify their behaviour then they aren’t sensible dog owners. QED.
And who decides what is deemed sensible? Does sensible mean they do what you think they should?
Out on cross bike last night, riding through a forest and on an adjacent path about 30 to 40ft away I could hear a women shouting frantically to try and control her angry barking dog.
I Didn't think much of it until I looked behind and the same big angry barking dog started chasing after me. Probably only lasted for 10s, but it started closing at one point and I was getting very worried. I'm a dog owner, so use to dogs, must be even worse for someone who is scared of dogs.
Would hate to think what would have happened if it caught me, or worse still if it had chased a child that couldn't ride fast enough to get away from it. It really didn't look like it was friendly and chasing me for cuddles.
The woman really didn't have any control over her dog.
If you get unwanted attention from a dog then take it up with the owner. If they’re not a dick they will be apologetic I’m sure
Yes but by then it's too late. Some (most, I don't actually know) don't want an apology and didn't want the attention.
A dog passed me yesterday, off it’s lead a few feet in front of its owner, the dog was wagging its tail, the owner and I greeted each other good morning.
I’m a dog owner, so use to dogs, must be even worse for someone who is scared of dogs.
Why didn't you just quickly train it as it was chasing you and get it to sit and stay. Apparently as a dog owner that should be easy enough 🙂
kerley 😂 it may be easy, but that was the last thing on my mind!
Drac well I had lots of similar situations to yours too. In fact the majority of my interactions with dogs and their dog owners are like that. When riding I am always considerate around dogs, I slow down and take my time when passing them, as I never want to scare/spook a dog in case I reacts badly. But last night was nearly a change of underwear moment. I was genuinely worried the dog was going to bite me if it had caught me.
A combined path/bridleway isn't a great place to let a dog off its lead, but then many owners seem infinitely entitled.
How wise is this bridleway, how busy is it, is through tress or open fields?
Seems like bad place for out of control cyclists to be riding, there could be you kids out with their parents.
I'm speaking about the TPT, for example. One section of the user code says don't block the path.
It's a designated cycle route.
A dog passed me yesterday, off it’s lead a few feet in front of its owner, the dog was wagging its tail, the owner and I greeted each other good morning.
Outrageous! That tail could have wagged a child’s face clean off or taken the eye out of someone doing squats/tying a shoelace. Bring back docking!
That should be good for another page.
Have we not finished putting everyone in their little boxes yet? Accept it, dog owners don't give a toss about your whining. Drac has it correct, just like car owners think cyclists are uncontrollable dickheads, you guys think most dog owners are idiots who cant control their mutts.
At the end of the day i hope you have managed to make yourself feel better but with maniacs driving about trying to kill you i would say you have bigger things to worry about.
Finally, my little schanuzer must have read this thread. He has been a model of behaviour recently, even managing to recall when other dogs are running about. Maybe i will qualify as a responsible dog owner one day but if i dont, well i will climb inside my box and live with it.
A combined path/bridleway isn’t a great place to let a dog off its lead, but then many owners seem infinitely entitled.
Go on then, why?
a lot to unpack here.
While i have total sympathy with the OP and MrsOP, i really do,
another-entitled-dog-owner
and many of the comments along those lines reads a lot like a Daily Heil Article about cyclists.
you want to be careful going on about kicking dogs and owners being thickos, cause plenty of people think that about us cyclists.
Getting physical with a dog is 50:50 going to get you punched by the owner, risky business.
The only tactic i think you can get away with (and it only applies when on the bike), is to play them at their own game:
if you're getting chased by a dog, adjust your speed so the dog cant catch you, but can definitely keep up and keep interested. Run them into the next county, then leave them there.
maybe the owner will keep the on the lead (if they ever get them back)
Go on then, why?
Because you are demanding that cyclists get out of the way of your dog on the cycle route, as if your dog had right of way.
Would you do the same on a road?
Seems like bad place for out of control cyclists to be riding, there could be you kids out with their parents.
Why are the kids not on leads or walking to heel?
if you’re getting chased by a dog, adjust your speed so the dog cant catch you, but can definitely keep up and keep interested. Run them into the next county, then leave them there.
We covered this scenario a few pages back. Apparently encouraging a dog to chase you risks them dying of exhaustion. So I'm afraid you've become what you were criticising earlier in your post. Sorry about that.
Another option would be to stop therefore no longer being the dog's prey. I won't be doing that though as it will play havoc on my segment times.
Another option would be to stop therefore no longer being the dog’s prey.
Someone should tell all those other prey species. They're missing a trick with all this 'keep running' malarkey. 🙂
Because you are demanding that cyclists get out of the way of your dog on the cycle route, as if your dog had right of way.
Would you do the same on a road?
Am I? I don't think I've demanded anything of the sort purely by walking my dog off the lead.
The fact that it's a cycle route doesn't give cyclists automatic right of way, it's shared use, a bit of courtesy to others goes a long way.
The fact that it’s a cycle route doesn’t give cyclists automatic right of way, it’s shared use, a bit of courtesy to others goes a long way.
The TPT user code says don't block the path? You don't think that's reasonable?
The TPT user code says don’t block the path? You don’t think that’s reasonable?
Who said I was blocking the path?
At some point everyone blocks the route if it's narrow enough, or are you saying it's only dog walkers? horses don't block the path? cyclists don't block the path? walkers don't block the path? at some point you'll block the path to someone travelling in the other direction on that occasion one or the other gives way, sometimes I do sometimes the other party does, it's not hard.
At some point everyone blocks the route if it’s narrow enough
That's not a good reason to block the path where it's wide enough for more than a single file though.
The implication is that you shouldn't be making cyclists stop or slow down for your dog to move out of their way on the vast majority of the trail (i.e., where it's wider than a single file).
As I have suggested before, these designated cycle routes (like the TPT) are not parks so don't treat them as such.
So you consider others to be 'blocking' your path purely by being there? That you should have uninterrupted use no matter what? That's not blocking the path, that's using it and they have every right to do so.
The only one coming across as 'entitled' is you.
Why are the kids not on leads or walking to heel?
Good point a farmer could shoot them.
As I have suggested before, these designated cycle routes (like the TPT) are not parks so don’t treat them as such.
To be fair you declared all bridleways.
Where the Trail is a designated bridleway, cyclists should give way to other users.
The user code simply says:
If you are in a group, please do not walk or ride across the whole width of the path, leave space for others to pass you easily.
That seems pretty clear to me, and yes, one does 'block' by 'blocking'.
What you seem to want is free use accross the whole width of the path. I don't want that. Who is entitled?
Jesus H Christ. Can someone please kill this thread?
Many seem to misinterpret the pedestrian right of way as meaning that pedestrians have some kind of sovereignty - when in a group - to straddle the trail across the whole width, for example. It merely means that in the case of junctions or chokepoints other users should step to the side or wait.
The TPT rules are quite clear about cyclists and the right of way.
That seems pretty clear to me, and yes, one does ‘block’ by ‘blocking’.
What you seem to want is free use accross the whole width of the path. I don’t want that. Who is entitled?
Can you show me where I've demanded the use of the whole path? and who is this group I'm with? I don't like the sound of them already.
If I'm 'blocking' the path then it's only a single persons width, I'm not walking and elephant.
If your dog is off the lead (or on a long lead) then you could be blocking the whole path.
Using....
Can you show me where I’ve demanded the use of the whole path?
It was my understanding that you wanted to have your dog off the lead, and potentially in someone's way, until such point as they asked you to move/recall it?
Then you understand incorrectly, of the lead yes, this doesn't automatically translate to being in the way or leaving him there until someone points out the issue. Some of us, infact most of us do look after our dogs, train them properly and ensure they aren't a nuisance to others, trouble is no one remembers the positive interactions but dwell on the negative, and amplify them in echo chambers like this thread.
What do you mean by that @Drac?
This.
Where the Trail is a designated bridleway, cyclists should give way to other users.
Where the Trail is a designated bridleway, cyclists should give way to other users.
Yield to me and my elephant!
The poo bags are a bit of a bugger to hang from the trees though 🙁
What's the tpt* anyway, I might start walking the elephant there....
*Tibetan people traffickers?
What’s the tpt* anyway, I might start walking the elephant there….
Tran Pennine Trail.
Right @Drac, but what does that right of way actually mean?
It clearly doesn't give pedestrians the right to block the entire width of the path for example, so 'right of way' doesn't mean 'get out of my way'.
It clearly doesn’t give pedestrians the right to block the entire width of the path for example, so ‘right of way’ doesn’t mean ‘get out of my way’.
I haven’t seen anyone claim that.
Where the Trail is a designated bridleway, cyclists should give way to other users
That says you're bottom of the food chain, even my dog outranks you.
I think I'll go for an especially wide walk tonight....😙
Jesus H Christ. Can someone please kill this thread?
Yep. If STW want a thread to put off new and existing users, this is perfect.
That's not what right of way means.