[Closed] An Atheist goes to Church

Why pick on the christians, many other sky faries are available
[img] [/img]
Some look way more fun

I quite like that pic, mikewsmith. I just don't think that Viking/Saxon/Celtic feasting halls are quite as accessible in London.

you just don't have an invite, you have easy access to mosques, synagogues and lots of other temples though. Perhaps is you want to experience something you should try them all

Indeed. I know that the mosque near Cardiff University is especially welcoming, and Sikh Gurdwaras pretty much everywhere will feed you should you ever find yourself in need.

TBF my experience was that a good chunk of the congregation is doing exactly what the writer does (even some that claim to be religious). Certainly it's what we ended up doing. Christmas and Easter...

It's a bit like the last religion thread. If all you do that's religious is go to church, you're not religious, you're a tourist.

I'm an atheist, and I went this morning.
The wife is Christian, but neither of us try to browbeat the other.
She lets me go out cycling most Sundays, but every 4 weeks there's an Allsorts service with lots of music, banging of things, games, etc. So we take the young uns along.
Tea, coffee and cake at the end, along with a nice bit of community spirit, and lots of coffin dodgers doting on the children.
It's quite pleasant really 🙂
And it earns me browny points!

You'd think that religious people would be happy enough in their belief to just get on with it. After all, they've discovered their one true path. Why aren't they busy walking it and not irritating the rest of us who've
said time and again that we don't accept any of the superstitious gibberish?

Well it's for the same reason that they are busy indoctrinating their helpless children into their dogma of choice.

They will never be happy UNTIL YOU BELIEVE IT AS WELL.

Alright, "sinners"?

It's knee-patch time again.

"Ooh god you are so big and just, well, so hugely enormouse. I can tell you we're all really impressed down here..." 🙄

I like old churches, they have a nice feel to them usually, and are testament to what people can do when inspired to work together for a communal good. And a lot of them a properly old!

On that article; what a lovely community feel that the author paints a picture of. What a pity that humans seem to need (or think that they need) a common belief in a deity in order to act like that. As an atheist, I feel the same way about community, morals and general rule number oneness as they do, but I feel excluded by them because I can't help but think the foundations of their belief system are daft.

You'd think that religious people would be happy enough in their belief to just get on with it.
Etc etc etc

Is this rantette in relation to anything that’s been posted here?
Or just standard cut and paste anti religion spiel.

Yeah.

It's Whack-a-mole time, sniffy.

How about posting this in the other thread.

Ok.

After discussing this with other mods I’ve reopened it. Keep the discussion reasonable or those who don’t will face a break.

Don't listen to the voices.

I posted a long reply to this and lost it when the thread closed. I'll say this for now though - Mr Woppit, dial it down a little please, there's a good chap. You're not helping anyone.

[url= https://www.google.es/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/atheist-pastor-canada-gretta-vosper-united-church-canada ]Being good without a god.[/url]

Because I thought it was time for [url= http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/17/im-an-atheist-who-goes-to-church-heres-why-you-should-too-6909729/ ]another religion thread[/url].

An atheist goes to a community gathering, that happens to be in a church.
As mentioned religions don't have a monopoly on this kind of thing.
Capitalist societies undermine community spirit; competitiveness is good for business. We have to find a way to bring community back, without religion.

This story isn't a million miles from what Ro5ey and Perchy have said in the past. I've often thought that the church as a local community centre is laudable, and in some places in the country that's exactly what it is.

I can't help but think though that the whole "god" bit is increasingly redundant; why can't communities come together without the need for framing it in some organised religion or other? Would attendance fall because being taking part in your community and being nice to each other isn't sufficient incentive in itself?

There actually was an Atheist church in London for a while; what happened to that, was it a success? (Yes, I know, Google.)

I did, of course, post this as a bit of fun, and also to be slightly mischievous.

That said, I am all in favour of the desire on your part, barkm and Cougar, for a renewed sense of community - however that is fostered. At the same time, I also think that you cannot overestimate the human need for 'liturgy' - that is, the ritual act of coming together and singing/dancing/engaging in some sort of shared behaviour. Such things, after all, have been a feature of human society since the beginning.

We can be as cynical as we want about things like the opening of parliament, the coronation of a monarch, the rituals of the courts (wigs, standing for the judge, etc.), and even the religious rituals of churches, synagogues, or mosques (or whatever), but if not for all such things, we either have nothing at all, and so no shared touchstones, or we replace them with more atomistic things like rock festivals.

I love this video as an analogy for a religious gathering:

😉

I like old churches, they have a nice feel to them usually, and are testament to what people can do when inspired to work together for a communal good. And a lot of them a properly old!

+1.

Don't forget that the 'Lord of the Manor' played a huge role in the community in days gone by, employing villagers and taking the responsibility seriously. Once you've lost that family connection then villages can lose that sense of community.

Edit: I'm an atheist and have been a volunteer in a church for years.

I also think that you cannot overestimate the human need for 'liturgy' - that is, the ritual act of coming together and singing/dancing/engaging in some sort of shared behaviour.

Ack, I actually wrote that in the lost draft of that post. I posited whether it was essential that any 'club' (for want of a better term) had to be [i]about[/i] something. Be that a group going to the library (book club), the pub (beer club) or the church (god club). Perhaps being about the community alone is only of merit / appeal if you actually have a community to start with?

<mod>
I've just deleted a few comments which were off-topic and I assumed posted purely to provoke a reaction.

We reopened this on the proviso that an adult conversation takes place for once. We'll only have to close the file if another bloody squabble breaks out.
</mod>

I’m a non believer. My wife is Roman Catholic. We recently married and I had to do all the going to church stuff as it’s where her mother is buried. It was like a cult, with a leader at the front saying things and the people in the audience replying with what they had been told. Made me very very uncomfortable, it’s basically brain washing on a massive scale and has no part in modern day life.

People come together for all sorts of reasons.
We all get scared, we all need human contact.
Doing things together for the benefit of all makes the world better, starting with us as individuals.

We all believe irrational things at some point in our lives.
It would appear to be hardwired.

The problem with irrational beliefs is that people tend to get all killy about them when other people point out the irrationality.

That's why they are so powerful and dangerous.
I don't think belief in the irrational should be encouraged.

I still love old churches though.
🙂
Latest find is St David's Cathedral.
Could spend a week just wandering round the place.

That article really resonates with me - we go to church every now and then but, whilst I have a lot of respect for what christianity teaches, I don't have faith myself. I like going because I enjoy the sense of community, because I like the singing, because our local church is 15th century and beautiful, and because the vicar (who married us) delivers the most fantastic sermons and is always welcoming and interested in us. D'you know, rightly wrongly, I go and get a blessing, and it always gives me an enormous sense of peace. I used to be very cynical about religion, in an uninformed way - I had some frank and interesting conversations with a christian after my mum passed that totally removed that cynicism. Fair play to devout folk of any religion, I'm pretty envious! 🙂

Hello another atheist here :-). love of buildings I totally understand .the people that go to them are completely great (ok there's usually one insufferable but you experience that at work, a bus queue..) but having been to churches in my time I am, respectfully, surprised that anyone enjoys the sermons and lectures unless they are a committed Christian; it's the thing that puts me off religion (I find them overbearing and a bit smug and it's not just one vicar this is the same for all of them ) so if I'm missing something please enlighten me

You know you have to eat your sprouts before you get any pudding?
It's like that.

I stopped going at 10 but can still recite the whole mass.
They were half right, those Jesuits.
🙂

I find them overbearing and a bit smug and it's not just one vicar this is the same for all of them

Man. Harsh. 😯

Come to ours and hear our chap, he's brilliant! It'll generally be 15 or 20 minutes of engagingly delivered thoughtful discourse weaving a bible story into why it's good to be nice, or thoughtful, or generous to those in need, etc. He retires next month, sad to know he's going and his replacement will have a lot to live up to.

I went to church last Christmas day. The leader of said church had organised cooked food and donation for the homeless, of which a few turned up and as we servwd them we listed to thier stories and was humbleed to serve them food.

Would it metter what the denomination was?

Would it matter what the denomination was?

As long as they don't practice coercion and/or manipulation, then nope, I wouldn't think so.

<mod>
I've just deleted a few comments which were off-topic and I assumed posted purely to provoke a reaction.

Sorry, I've been next door for vodkas and orange and a bit of the old how'syerfather...

Look, I do my best but I need a break now and then.

So anyway, religion, eh? What a bunch of....

Oh wait. Somebody said something about a dial?

11, 10, 9, 8, 7, ........

Sorry, I've been next door for vodkas and orange and a bit of the old how'syerfather...

Not that you need it, but you have my full approval. 8)

I love old churches. There was a compound near where I was born and raised called The House of the Resurrection. Absolutely beautiful building and grounds. I think it was some kind of theological college. I volunteered to do some gardening there, just so I could hang out in the grounds and take it all in.

Serious question Saxon (and please tell me to bugger off if it's too personal). I know from previous threads that you have seven kids. Are any of them not religious or have a different faith to you?

What did you have to agree to do openly when you were made a god parent- see i told you they were subtle

Of course, I'm more thoughtful than that. I try to think carefully about what I say. I initially said no because I didn't think I would be able to do what was compatible with my beliefs. But then I read up on what you had to commit to and realised it wasn't really incompatible. It's just about offering to help with spiritual and moral upbringing, which I can do.

As soon as we were offered it was made clear that the parents would understand if we said no; and they and the vicar offered to let us change the vows. The only bit I changed was "with God's help I will" to simply "I will".

TBH the fact they were so accomodating of my beliefs made me even happier about it.

The problem with irrational beliefs is that people tend to get all killy about them when other people point out the irrationality.

Maybe want to have another read of what you wrote there. You're saying that religious people "tend to" kill people who point out their irrationality. That suggests a common trait.

Well, the overwhelming majority of religious people do not want to kill anyone, in fact they spend their lives telling people not to along with a wide range of other bad things. But there are some bad religious people just as there are bad atheists.

Think about next time someone says that bloody cyclists all break the rules. We know that there are aresholes on bikes and aresholes in cars. The same is true of religions.

you have seven kids

Seven? What, you think I'm some kind of amateur? I have eight. 😉

And how do you know I have any religion?

Actually, I do, but it's also a serious question. Across all the religion threads on here, I have generally tried to correct misconceptions where I have perceived them, and to represent a reasonable voice with respect to certain historical/theological/biblical questions, but I do have an academic interest in these things quite apart from a personal interest.

I try to convert SaxonRider all the time though. He needs SPDs and a dropper on his MTB. Not to mention his refusal to accept the good news... tubeless.

And how do you know I have any religion?

From all the religion threads 🙂

And I can't believe you haven't gone tubeless 😯

I have generally tried to correct misconceptions

And I can't believe you haven't gone tubeless

If you have eight kids I'd suggest that you've failed at correcting misconceptions and can well believe that you've gone tubeless for some time now.

(-:

molgrips - Member
Maybe want to have another read of what you wrote there. You're saying that religious people "tend to" kill people who point out their irrationality. That suggests a common trait.

I believe that a conflict of rational beliefs is less likely to end in violence than a conflict which involves irrational belief, on whatever scale.

From all the religion threads

😀

Alright, the answer to your question is: I don't think so. We have always taken the kids to church, but we have also encouraged rigorous questioning.

So, for example, I will even point the older ones to some of the threads on here. But (and no offense whatsoever intended to our resident sceptics and atheists) in my normal work I will often face substantial questions of a more academic sort, and they get to see me working some of those through.

But my field is historical in nature, and consequently I find there is little new under the sun. So I can generally point to a time when similar questions/challenges have been put forward before, and equally point to how they have been dealt with.

The thing is, I believe that we should all be free to criticise and question. But I believe this precisely because if what I believe is true at all, then I don't need to worry about questions and criticisms. The intellectual probing and sparring - if undertaken with respect - is just part of the process for uncovering further truth.

And if what I believe is wrong, and one of my kids discovers that for himself, then so be it.

The intellectual probing and sparring - if undertaken with respect - is just part of the process for uncovering further truth.

Why would a lack of respect affect the intrinsic truth?

No one enjoys someone else being horrible to them, but that doesn't make any odds to the validity of their argument.

Philip Larkin very good on church going: