It’s completely **** hatstand as an idea.
You missed the key third and fourth points.
3 By doing this instead of something more effective like some firearms regulation you wont impact the profits for the firearms companies.
4 Even better you will be selling more guns and might even be able to run the official training courses so even more quids in.
Or someone who received large donations and other support from the NRA.
"eg." probably hidden by the code rubbish, but that was just a single example. Not all posts are nra related
I heard the NRA guy's speech on the radio on the way home. And sadly - he's right. The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun currently, is to have a good guy with a gun nearby. And if schools aren't to be soft targets, that means more trained people with guns at schools. We accept it at airports, at public events, concerts.... why not at schools?
But the two aren't exclusive - clearly the elephant / room solution is that the 'bad*' guys shouldn't be able to get guns, and certainly shouldn't be able to get semi- or fully automatic weapons capable of wreaking devastation. But they can, and they have and until that's fixed then I can't see an alternative. It'd be great to wave a wand and do away with them overnight but even if America had the appetite, and let's face it they don't, it'd take years.
Honestly, and I almost don't want to say this - but I live in fear that ISIS or IS (or whoever they are this week) might not see this sort of attack and think it's a legitimate soft target in the UK; or are even they moral enough that a school is too far? If we protect other public venues where large groups gather, why not schools?
* and it's not even as simple as fix the gun availability issue and in the meantime protect schools; the socio-economic-political issues that create the kinds of sick individuals, whether true mental illness or twisted ideology, that does this sort of thing, has to be dealt with too.
There is no single answer, and sadly the NRA guy is actually right in part of it, even if it is just as a stopgap while the real issue is fixed.
The practical solutions are easy.
They are not happening because the politicians are owned by commerce.
Same reason wrong stuff happens in most countries.
You’re aware, presumably, that the USA have run a highly effective “troops to teachers” second career programme for many years now?
I always wondered where all the good guys had gone when the Fort Hood shoot-up happened.
The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun currently, is to have a good guy with a gun nearby
We have that already, it's the police firearms units.
We have exaclty the same scenario here with motor vehicles btw, its not a US thing or a Gun thing its a moneys more important than people thing.
You’re aware, presumably, that the USA have run a highly effective “troops to teachers” second career programme for many years now?
Maybe the ones who opened fire on protesters at Kent State University?
There’s no way I’d trust an ex-serviceman turned teacher with a handgun in a schoolroom, far too many possibilities of latent PTSD.
The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun currently, is to have a good guy with a gun nearby. And if schools aren’t to be soft targets, that means more trained people with guns at schools.
Philando Castile was a teacher with a gun, who was deliberately executed by someone else with a gun, just because they had a gun.
We have exaclty the same scenario here with motor vehicles btw
No, we don't, as explained in detail a few pages back.
Do you mean what Hugo said?
If so then I disagree, misuse of guns is a problem in the US, misuse of vehicles is a problem in the UK(and most other countries)
We could quite easily drive (no pun) down the harm caused by motor vehicles significantly by regulating there design and use with practically no loss of amenity.
We dont do it because manufacturers, financiers, insurers, fuellers and transport firms give money to our politicians.
Its exactly the same as Guns in the US.
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Its exactly the same as Guns in the US.
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er, no it isn't.
Everyday, motor vehicles bring enormous personal freedom, leverage huge financial growth and even save lives (ambulance, fire truck etc).
Guns, er, what do they do on a daily basis? If the US banned them tomorrow then some people would have to find some other hobbies but the world hasn't lost much, and yet it has gained a lot.
"We have that already, it’s the police firearms units."
Who are always near a school, justin case.
We have that already, it’s the police firearms units.
Yes but the laws of physics make it unlikely that they will be there in time
Surely the reason schools are a target is not that they are soft targets but its because the majority of shooters are a student or ex students with mental illness who blame the school and its pupils for something.
They're in the bushes . . . Obvs.
Surely the reason schools are a target is not that they are soft targets but its because the majority of shooters are a student or ex students with mental illness who blame the school and its pupils for something.
Exactly. This thought/fear that their schools and homes are being targeted by marauding gangs of armed criminals is just absurd. It's a fear the Republicans and the NRA have been perpetuating for decades, in order to maintain the status quo.
Edit: Yaaayyy! The formatting buttons have returned. And the preview button works. I see the hamsters have finally returned from holiday.
I would bring in gun licences . With a built in escalator so the more guns you have , the rate doubles each time. So 1 gun = $100 2 guns = $200 , 3 guns = $600 etc. Try to stop mini arsenals of weapons .
To buy ammo for your 9mm Beretta you need to show a licence for a 9mm , and a box of 7.62 wont be tacked on to the sale if there is no licence for a 7.62 weapon.
All weapons to be made 1 pull = 1 shot , no semi auto's or full auto's.
All weapons to be modified to take 5 rounds only maximum. so your std revolver is fine , Everything else has to go to a gunsmiths for magazine modification. Only done with a licenced weapon.
Tax ammo as well as restrict it to licence holders only. I know it will drive thousands of weapons underground into the black market , but there already are thousands of weapons in the underground black market.
Make licences available to over 21's only. with caveats for military or llaw enforcemnt .
Bring in fines and harsher punishments for anyone found with a non - complying weapon. Make it a self funding exercise . Guns are no cheap so if you can afford thousands for a H&K then you can afford hundreds for licencing and ammo.
Tax ammo as well as restrict it to licence holders only. I know it will drive thousands of weapons underground into the black market , but there already are thousands of weapons in the underground black market.
As Chris Rock said: You make bullets cost $5000 each, there will no longer be any innocent bystanders.
Max torque, I said without loss of amenity, vehicles could be made much less harmful whilst still providing personal freedom.
Two tonne Porsches that can travel at 200mph don't provide any more freedom than a 1100kg hatchback.
The same as a AR15 provides no more protection anyone practically needs compared to a Revolver.
We have unnecessary Guns(US) and Cars(everywhere) because they make money and are fun.
So take the sports marketing (and subsequent idolatry) out of both products regulate there size and power, properly licence their use and save lives, no loss of anything except profit.
How many people go on killing sprees in schools using 4x4 cars?
The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun currently, is to have a good guy with a gun nearby
Nope.
The best way is to have several good guys who aint only "good" but are highly trained and are not only well armed but well armoured. Then make sure they can isolate the bad guy somewhere where the risk to innocents and the good guys is minimal so if necessary the good guys can take turns until the bad guy collapses.
However as with most things prevention is far better than cure. If the bad guy cant get a gun its a lot easier.
We accept it at airports, at public events, concerts…. why not at schools?
Ohhh. I know the answer to this one. We dont.
Its accepted at major airports, at some public events and some concerts but not all. To get sufficient people to cover all the schools who are trained to an acceptable level would be rather costly. We already dont have enough armed cops.
If you use inadequately trained people they will if anything increase the risk. Its like how statistics indicate the 911 attack carried on killing for months afterwards as people drove instead of flying and so more fatal car accidents occurred.
Thats not the argument Mikey, read back.
But actually you make another comparison quite nicely.
People have been sold guns and cars so effectivly that any suggestion of regulation generates vociferous and often illogical defence from people addicted to them.
People have been sold guns and cars so effectivly that any suggestion of regulation generates anger from people addicted to them.
Well apart from cars do have regulations. You have to pass a test to be allowed to drive on the road and cars are generally expected to be of a certain standard. Depending where you are various laws are used to try and increase safety.
Now personally I think they could be improved but comparing them to firearms is absolutely nuts. Without major changes in our infrastructure and investment in various areas it will be hard to move away from cars. Whereas ban AR-15s and similar military rifle derivatives and the impact will be minimal.
Jesus wept, we’re back on to cars again.
I have, and your argument is erroneous and irrelevant here. However, to respond to your point directly: 4x4s have not been found to be any more dangerous than other cars. In fact:
The Volvo XC90 and the Nissan X-Trail managed two stars, putting the Audi TT Roadster to shame - it scored no stars, along with the Skoda Superb and the Suzuki Grand Vitara
Taken from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/2730922/Is-it-better-to-be-hit-by-a-4x4.html
Assuming you are referring to me in your last sentence: I only use my car when I have to and cycle/walk/run the rest of the time. When I'm not going to site, my car doesn't move Monday-Friday.
Anyway, stop trying to derail the discussion about America's gun problem with your car nonsense.
Sorry anger was a poor choice of words so edited.
Its not really about cars, its saying we do the same..accept loss if life for commerce and fun.
impossible to argue this. you will not, i repeat will not ever get the gun mad yanks to ever give up their weapons. its basically meth to them.
You disagree, thats fine, try doing it without being abusive.
I didnt say 4x4 are more dangerous, I you are just too keen to defend your preference, same as those who like AR15’s which is also why its not a derailment.
Anyway I’ll let you carry in making noises about them crazy yanks, sure they're not just like you at all.
So why reference a "two tonne Porsche"?
you are just too keen to defend your preference
Eh? I drive a Ford Focus, and probably do less than 6000 miles/year.
Anyway I’ll let you carry in making noises about them crazy yanks, sure they’re not just like you at all.
This thread is all about Americans [I'll refrain from using casual racism] you loon.
To understand the real scale of the problem, guns are promoted as "Fun for all the family"
I'm not disagreeing with any of the suggestions for gun control, but it ain't gonna happen and even if it was to, it still wouldn't happen overnight.
What do we do now - this minute?
What do we do now – this minute?
Send thoughts and prayers.
Wait for the next time.
And the next.
And the next.
Etc.
Nuke the NRA from space
Two tonne Porsches that can travel at 200mph don’t provide any more freedom than a 1100kg hatchback.
The same as a AR15 provides no more protection anyone practically needs compared to a Revolver.
Your solution to the problem of cars that are too fast is slower cars. I can get behind that.
Your solution to guns that are too automatic is handguns. You're a stone bonker, sorry.
These two things are not remotely comparable. Most gun deaths in the US are instant suicides. Whilst it's possible to gas yourself with a car in an enclosed space that takes time, and it's kinda tricky (but not impossible) to run yourself over. I don't know what the stats are for intentional behind-the-wheel suicides but I'd expect it to be statistically insignificant.
STOP THE PRESSES They've fixed the problem!
The Florida House — the same lawmakers who rejected a ban on assault weapons while declaring porn a health risk — has finally figured out a way to prevent more gun violence.
They’re going to put the words “In God We Trust” in every classroom.
The bill (HB 839) would require all public schools to post the state motto, “In God We Trust,” in a “conspicuous place.”
Blah blah blah..... and the ridiculous false comparison, blind-alley, tangential discussions go on.....
Bottom line is: do people agree that access to firearms, or to particular subcategories of firearms, should be restricted - or should it be a free-for-all?
Most sane people believe that yes, there should be some restrictions on firearms ownership. Even most NRA members believe this. And of course there ARE gun controls in the US - the issue is that they are not tight enough to stop the bad guys getting guns.
So the debate actually needs to be around: "how do we make gun controls more effective" - rather than whether teachers should be armed, whether anyone needs a 200mph Porsche, or if cyclists need to wear a helmet. Engaging people/trolls at that level re-baselines the debate, and effectively takes us/them backwards.
Given the issue of circulating firearm volume - I would be inclined to agree that restricting the sale of ammunition in some way would be a good start. You can still buy armor-piercing ammunition in some states ffs.
Well after all this blatant horseshit about getting more guns into schools, about how "mass shootings happen in gun free zones", about how shooters are all cowards and won't go somewhere there are armed guards, about how the best place to keep you safe from bad guys is to have good guys with guns...
There was an armed deputy there at the time. It achieved **** all. It put off no one. The shooting didn't happen in a gun free zone. Putting guns into schools doesn't stop shootings. And the people peddling this tired, fatuous bullshit didn't even bother to check first to see if there was an armed officer there.
Of course, none of this will matter because they're effortlessly pivoting to blaming the deputy.
Of course, none of this will matter because they’re effortlessly pivoting to blaming the deputy.
Over on rightbart they've pivoted from yeah give guns to teachers as gun free zones are nutter magnets to see you can't rely on the police and fbi to protect you so everyone should be armed.
22 years next month since Dunblane and no mass or school shootings since. The gun laws introduced afterwards seem so simple but across the pond we are sadly dealing with idiots.
The school armed and trained officer didn’t intervene.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634
No details why, no idea how I’d react in such a situation or if indeed there was time but shows that armimg people to fend of such attacks is pretty futile.
22 years next month since Dunblane and no mass or school shootings since.
You're forgetting Derrick Bird who killed 12 in Cumbria in 2010.
True yes I did forget about the Cumbria shootings.
we need Gazza stationed in every school, with a bucket of fried chicken.
Sad news about the guard, I don't know what i'd do (but then again probably I wouldn't volunteer for the job anyway). Again i'd reiterate, appropriate people - whatever that means - might be AN answer while the underlying causes are fixed, but appropriate people doesn't mean forcing school teachers to volunteer, or Mittys from the NRA who think they'd be good but in reality would be a liability.
In God We Trust,” in a “conspicuous place.”
would inside toilet stalls count?
You’re forgetting Derrick Bird who killed 12 in Cumbria in 2010.
True but stil a very far way off Americas record.