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300m unregistered guns in circulation. What’s your plan to put that Genie back in the bottle?
Ban new sales without licence.
Ban sales of particular weapons e.g. automatic rifles and hand guns.
Sunset date for possession of weapons in banned category with high fines for possession after that date and a amnesty for hand ins. Pay owners market rate for guns being made illegal.
Stronger controls for storage of licensed weapons.
Simple, proven plan - run it over 5 years, job done.
how would arming teachers help?
And how long would it take for a teacher with a gun drawn, ready to defend his/her students, to be shot by a cop/another teacher/"CCW"er responding to reports of shots fired? Or the teacher shoots another 'good guy'?
passing a resolution declaring pornography a public health risk.
Good idea. Someone could **** themselves to a heart attack. Though I would have thought the solution in the US would be to allow everyone access to pornography and the freedom to flaunt it in public places.
as Gonefishing says
To clarify, you agree with me now? With my whole point, not just the section you chose to cherry pick?
We managed to massively reduce drink driving in the UK over a few years. Back in the 60's and 70's drink driving was normal. Now its not. Pubs still sell booze, all that changed was a tightening of the rules and a change in social attitudes.
So it could be possible to change social attitudes in the US. All it takes is a few well spoken people and less lobbying.
Arming teachers is a joke.
Mine couldn't hit me with a blackboard duster from 10 feet.
You weren't taught chemistry by Mr Clinch then - he was a a crack shot with a board rubber.
That the response of so many supposedly rational people is to 'arm the teachers', shows just how far american politics and large swathes of its society have an Alice in Wonderland inability to face reality.
As I understand it many of these shootings involve miltary spec semi-automatic assault rifles, so presumably the teachers would need to be armed with similar weapons rather than 'just' a handgun. Logically, if you are going to arm teachers, it would also make as much - or even more sense - to equip them with body armour as well, and they would also need some training in the sort of close quarter battle fire fighting where they would be expected to defend their pupils.
And what happens when the first such armed teacher goes postal and kills their class because of their own personal problems or because of frustration with some pupils' bad behaviour? Presumably the response of those currently suggesting that teachers be armed, would then be to suggest that the pupils should be armed so that they could defend themselves against a rampaging teacher.
These threads and discussions are pointless (I realise the irony of posting myself). Too many in America and too many of its politicians have jumped down a rabbit hole of insanity. There is no point wasting any more time in frustration and disappointment at their collective insanity and pig headed refusal to face reality.
Jesus wept indeed for the madness that infects them but even more so for the appalling loss of young innocent lives and wrecked families.
Some common sense being shown by most posters on these last couple of pages. As usual, ninfan isn't one of them. When it comes to guns and bloodlust I can never quite work out if he is a (not particularly brilliant) troll or whether he really is so delusional in his ideas.*
As far as I can see, no one is suggesting that there is an easy, immediate fix to the problem. The only certainty is that arming untrained CIVILIANS is not the answer. Start by tightening the gun laws. More stringent checks on the potential purchaser. Stop selling military class weaponry to civilians. Some sort of registration / identification on ammunition and limit the amount that can be sold, returning spent cartridges before new live rounds can be issued. There is no perfect solution and all options will take effort and money but isn't that effort and money well spent if it saves the lives of children? Probably not in Trump, the NRA and ninfans world but in the world of the rational human being, yes.
*I can work it out and I don't believe he is a troll.
From what my stepdaughter tells me about some pupils in her class of teenagers (school near Doncaster) It would be a great idea to arm our teachers as it would alleviate young offenders/prison overcrowding.
In the UK we limit the number of packs of paracetamol a person can buy to help prevent individuals killing themselves.
Yet suggesting [b]any[/b] form of limitation be placed on firearm purchases in the US, to help prevent individuals from massacring others, is deemed lefty-snowflake-short-sightedness.
<insert nathan fillion gif>
well at least it’s changing the underlying cause.
Thats the point
it isnt
It’s a sticking plaster
the underlying problems are issues like societal breakdown, social exclusion, drugs, poverty, and yes, healthcare.
same as with Columbine
Yet suggesting any form of limitation be placed on firearm purchases in the US, to prevent individuals from massacring others, is deemed lefty-snowflake-short-sightedness.
Actually, it isn’t, there’s huge support for it even amongst gun enthusiasts, but what people (IMO rightly) recognise is that it’s the start of a slippery slope towards the far greater, swinging restrictions on firearms that are the anti-gun lobbies explicit goals.
A bit like how cycling organisations stand up against banning bikes from the A63, or making cycle helmets compulsory.
The underlying problems certainly include those things and they need to be addressed now doubt, however the one single thing that is common to all mass shooting is guns and to deny that the apparent ease with which they are available isn't part of the problem is simply to deny reality.
Arming teachers against people with mental illness who come into schools with guns? Good job teachers absolutely cannot suffer from mental illness, eh?
they are suggesting that it’s better than the status quo
The difference is one option has a proven track record in reducing mass shootings., Just look at the number of mass shootings in the UK or Australia after firearms had further restrictions imposed.
The other, to put it politely, doesnt. It appeals to the macho dreamers who know that they could pull their trusty 9mm from their back pocket and shoot dead the bad guy before casually returning to teaching the difference between nouns and verbs.
You would need to find suitable teachers for the training (remember studies on soldiers would seem to indicate a surprising number cant actually shoot someone when it comes down to it) and then invest a lot of time into training them to be competent. Even then odds are you would have a higher casualty rate through NDs or a teacher deciding detentions just dont quite cut it than you would save.
attack somewhere in a no-gun zone.
Well apart from when they dont.
Las vegas for example.
A bit like how cycling organisations stand up against banning bikes from the A63, or making cycle helmets compulsory.
WTF!!! How do those possibly equate to removing weapons of mass destruction from the general public?
Worked in the uk. So how did the armed guard employed at Florida do then, how did that gun on the campus hep?
weapons of mass destruction
Lolz, no hyperbole there or anything
Banning assault rifles is like a compulsory helmet law.
er, right...........
Lolz, no hyperbole there or anything
Auto / semi-auto weapons facilitate the killing of very many people in a very short time frame, so yes mass destruction.
Ninfans bestest mate Greg Steube (florida senator he posted about above) is an NRA shill
Just listening to an American bloke explaining the 'logic' of arming all teachers, as if he was asking them to carry some spare pencils.
Absolutely, totally, completely and utterly insane!
Auto / semi-auto weapons facilitate the killing of very many people in a very short time frame, so yes mass destruction.
It's not even a case of 'facilitate', they are designed specifically to do that. It's not a by-product of some other primary function, or an alternative use that it just so happens they can be put to, they are specifically designed to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest time frame and easiest way.
My mind always boggles when it comes to America and guns. I understand the reasons behind it, the history, the many faceted nature of it both socially, politically and emotionally, but I still find it incomprehensible that as a nation they cant decide to sort it out.
It's not impossible task, it's not an easy task, it will be very very difficult and take a lot of time, but they* haven't even yet decided that they should try and fix it, that's what boggles my brain.
*obviously some people are trying...
As long as the NRA are buying power at the highest level and gun fetishists like ninfan are supporting at a grass roots level, nothing will change. The innocents in the middle will continue to be slaughtered and the great and good will send their thoughts and prayers.
There was a bloke talking on the radio this morning who has apparently studied mass shootings and he thinks the simplest answer to keeping fatalities to a minimum is for each classroom to have at least 2 doors. His stats say that most fatalities happen when people are trapped somewhere.
He also didn't think that having armed teachers or security in the school, hallway or classroom would make much difference to a nutter with an assault rifle.
I can see his logic.
I’m not sure I’d be alive had some of my teachers had guns. 😀
I'm still amazed the prayers haven't worked.
A couple of hours ago, Trump Tweeted that he didn't say "give teachers guns". His explanation clarifies that he, erm, wants to give teachers guns instead.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966650397002813440
Trump is beyond words now.....
His supporters equally tragic..
my solution to the problem
I’m not sure I’d be alive had some of my teachers had guns
Nor me if the amount of times I was hit by a board rubber are anything to go by
Apart from this one
What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers
You see, we forgot about that SAS branch of the teachers union........they can teach you at 1000 yards and you'll never see them coming
His explanation clarifies that he, erm, wants to give teachers guns instead.
concealed guns though. It makes all the difference.
I do like his idea of best 20%. Which leaving aside that seems a rather high number of people who could be trusted to be competent in shooting in a school also runs into the problem that its either 20% of all teachers, in which case schools may either have all teachers armed or none, or the best 20% in each school which has the problem in some schools the passing grade might be rather low.
has anyone asked the other 80% of teachers who are unarmed what their opinion is on being the first target on the nutters radar ?
I know I'm generalising here but from memory, and from my daughters parents evening last week, teachers generally fall into two categories. I doubt America will be much different
The vast majority are Guardian-reading, liberal, cardigan-wearing, organic-quinoa-munching peaceful types who would leave their jobs rather than carry a gun, then there's the odd terrifying psychopath thrown in, who should never ever be given a loaded firearm EVER
Hasn't Donald Trump just tweeted the plot of Kindergarten Cop?
We've seen the movie RoboCop, right?
We've seen Boston Dynamics robots?
Wikipedia exists
Google Scholar exists
RoboTeach
What could possibly go wrong?
Click [url= https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsingletrackworld.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Famericans-and-their-gun-laws%2F ]Here[/url]
The deluded ramblings of an utter maniac.
eg.
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<div title="More">What many people don’t understand, or don’t want to understand, is that Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!</div>
</div>
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<p lang="en" data-aria-label-part="0">what the actual..?</p>
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300m unregistered guns in circulation. What’s your plan to put that Genie back in the bottle?
Ban the sale of bullets and wait. Might take a while but finite resources eventually run out.
It’s a sticking plaster
Maybe it is. So what? What's wrong with sticking plasters? Sure, they're got going to do much for major trauma but they're not going to do any harm either are they.
what people (IMO rightly) recognise is that it’s the start of a slippery slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
You see, we forgot about that SAS branch of the teachers union……..they can teach you at 1000 yards and you’ll never see them coming
You’re aware, presumably, that the USA have run a highly effective “troops to teachers” second career programme for many years now?
The deluded ramblings of an utter maniac.
Or someone who received large donations and other support from the NRA.
Bit surprising actually. Generally his loyalty seems nonexistant. Guess there is a difference between those who might give him more money vs those employees whose usefulness is compromised.
Drain the swamp and build a firing range.
So the best way to go forward is to arm 20% of teachers, leave 80% unprotected and hope that you can get the ones from the army who could actually shoot well (it's not that many) into the right place at the right time?
This guy have you covered, he can make a mean sandwich and take down bad guys
Just when you think the NRA couldn't stoop any lower.....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/22/nra-wayne-lapierre-gun-control-cpac-speech-2018
IMHO guns in the classroom are an utterly shite idea for 2 reasons:
1. We'd end up with more dead teachers
2. We'd end up with more dead students
It's completely ****ing hatstand as an idea.
