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This kind of thing has been tried, and it doesn’t work out as cost effective. You’ve still got to equip staff and fuel the vehicle, the only saving is the (slightly; we’re hardly expensive) lower cost of wages for non clinicians. You then have to keep them utilised for the whole shift. The very specific jobs that they would be useful for come in all over the region, at any time, sometimes four or more at once, sometimes none for hours, sometimes hours of travelling time between them. You would have clinical staff waiting far ages for the humperdumpers to arrive. A double crewed paramedic ambulance is the most versatile resource; it can go to any job, convey anything, and if one can’t do it, two almost certainly can. And there’s lots of them. Better to equip them to manage (pretty much) anything.I was thinking more about when one crew attends and they can't lift or move a patient like the lady with hoist or the guy a couple of weeks back with the dislocated knee and the narrow staircase.
They then summon another fully equipped ambulance with two more trained medics when what they really need are a pair of burly porters.
A secondary support crew who assist with the logistical problems rather than the clinical problems.
You’re joking right?
It's almost half the cost for an ECA to a Paramedic, only takes 12 weeks to train an ECA add to that using your current Paramedic staffing being able to cover twice as many vehicles. It's a huge cost reduction.
It certainly can, and trust me, there is work ongoing. However, I certainly don’t want to be the one up in front of a clever barrister answering the question; <cynical hat> “So, Mr V8ninety, just why DID you refuse to help my black, disabled, socially isolated and so obviously at risk client when he was self evidently crying out for help?” </cynical hat>It can be done.
I’m not arguing against skill mix, I’m pointing out that non clinical lifting crews don’t work. (The ECA thing is a separate issue)You’re joking right?
WMAS don't routinely put out lots of double paramedics. Y’know, telly n’stuff.
Or just call out the fire service because if you believe the spin we're sat about doing nothing, we'll roll up with no training in handling patients and get stuck in.
The powers that be now want us to go out and prop up old buddies that have fallen over without any medical training or medical equipment should it be required. They view that they have just fallen over and can't get back on their own two feet, no medical condition has caused this.......
Not in my patch thanks, Bruneep, you keep your hose pipes and we’ll keep our bandages. 😉 We’re managing just fine. Plus there’s only a few of you compared to us; you’d barely make a scratch on our work load! 😛
I’m not arguing against skill mix, I’m pointing out that non clinical lifting crews don’t work. (The ECA thing is a separate issue)
Ah right I got confused when you were talking abut double paramedic crews being beneficial but they do for similar reason the cost are far less and not every patient requires a Paramedic to transport them to hospital.
Falls aren’t dealt with by your buddies in our area Bruneep as that goes against the care bundles for falls.
Ah, I see. By 'double crewed paramedic ambulance', I meant a DCA with a para on, not two paras. Double para crews are an expensive luxury, but good for morale (and telly, apparently). We Don't have ECAs in WMAS any more. Just student Paras/techs.Ah right I got confused when you were talking abut double paramedic crews being beneficial
Oh! I did wonder about the TV thing.
Interesting about the ECAs.
that goes against the care bundles for falls
What is this? Looking for sticks to hit the management with.
Last one tonight.
Watching now, massive respect as always.
That was some episode. Poor Jo was seriously effected by that job.
Yep, truly moving stuff. Utmost respect.
Well last night’s was was brilliant but hugely emopitnal, I found it extremely tough to watch as it reminded me of a recent event that happened to me. Fantastic TV though simply showing just how tough it is mentally for staff to the job they do.
I also found it a very tough watch (it felt overly voyeuristic, I hope/assume that permission to broadcast was sought/given after the events, and not just before).
Heros you lot, heros.
I hope/assume that permission to broadcast was sought/given after the events, and not just before
It’s both I’ve had to give permission a few times.
Drac, are you in this series then?
No, it’s a different service I may pop up on another TV programme though.
No, it’s a different service I may pop up on another TV programme though
Funspongebob Squarepants? 😉
Well, TV or not, a big thanks to all of you, you do an amazing thing.
Funspongebob Squarepants? 😉
😂👍🏼
Cheers Houndlegs.
I do hope those dogs were ok in the end.
I’ve got to admit, the show makes me cringe slightly. I’m always amazed that they manage to obtain consent from the patients involved; feels like a huge invasion of privacy.
I’m a little uncomfortable with the degree to which the staff allow their souls to be bared too; I know some regret their portrayal in the last series. Their choice I suppose.
Well, TV or not, a big thanks to all of you, you do an amazing thing.
Same from me. I've only needed you guys once so far, but the guys who came out (also the Police chap who stayed with whilst I lay in a puddle for an hour) were blinkin' brilliant.
As an aside, when I see ambulance crews around and about (I work on a hospital site), I tend to give them a smile that I hope conveys "I think you rock". Hopefully they don't think I'm a weirdo, I just imagine that it would seem weirder if I went up to them as a random and just said "BTW, you guys are great."
I watched it last night. Amazing people doing a very difficult job with good humour. The 101yr old woman was fab!
It got a bit dusty in our house when the paramedic's daughter was rushed in.
Chapeau to each and every one of them!!
I tend to give them a smile that I hope conveys “I think you rock”
It’s very kind of you to say so, but ambo peeps are just normal peeps, with ambulances and a bit of training and (mostly) a bit of common sense. Sense of humour is optional 😉.
Hopefully they don’t think I’m a weirdo,
Trust me, ambos meet a lot of really weird weirdos. You won’t even register on their scale...
It’s very kind of you to say so, but ambo peeps are just normal peeps, with ambulances and a bit of training and (mostly) a bit of common sense. Sense of humour is optional
.
Indeed. I have met great ones, and absolute bulbs. Just like all industries/services.
Just a heads up; tonight’s episode is going to be especially humdingerous. I don’t normally watch, but I’ll be tuning in tonight.
Cheers V8 I do watch as I’m sad **** there’s some cracking staff working for your trust some really are shining through.
****..... just tuned in.
This one is grim! Respect to anyone wading into that.
I will never apologise for repeating but you folks that do this sort of work, that keep the bad guys off our streets, and that run into buildings on fire when all common sense says run out.... there is nothing I can say that can adequately express my gratitude for the work you do.
This is some program- I’m in awe of what these guys do. A hard watch, but so important. Hats off to everyone involved...
Brutal - every boy racer should be made to watch that. And those who are no longer boys but like to make progress...
couldn't help but google it. Not sure how I feel about it.
Currently filming series four in Manchester.
I think the coroners enquiry is in the courts at the moment, the audi was doing 100mph or something daft. I just wanted to hug the medics watching that, don't think I could keep my head cool like that blonde lass did in that situation.
Nothing but utter admiration for all our emergency services.
That 21 year old lass..... just wanted to give her a massive hug.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/what-caused-belgrave-middleway-horror-14719690
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/full-story-what-happened-belgrave-14724670
Details here on the inquest. Hard watch last night - nothing but respect for those involved
Haven’t watched it yet as had a tough week at work so avoided it thanks to V8’s tip off, might put it on while I have my breakfast.
Thinking back the bit I found most upsetting was how damaged the young crew were when they arrived at the base for the post incident debrief. I would hope that they were offered more support than was shown in the admittedly limited shots from the debriefing.
That was a fantastic episode. Brilliant for showing just how tough it is on crews, was great to see so many staff saying “No, I’m not alright”. An ‘advantage’ the younger ones have as they haven’t been told for years that it’s a weakness. That was a very tough episode to watch so glad I waited but utterly brilliant. Thanks to knows above for praising what we do it’s nice to hear. Kilo yes they would be more to it than appeared on there.
I know... higher incidence of PTSD in the emergency services than in the armed forces, was a statement on the program. And yet, with old ladies with fractured hips lying on the floor for hours on end waiting for ambulances to come free, there was clearly also a 'reasonable' amount of pressure that needed to be applied to have a quick debrief and get out there again.
Actually thinking back on it, and reading the links above, I'm actually welling up right now. My daughter's school friend's dad is an Trauma Care doctor, who came over on secondment from overseas and stayed. He's one of the guys who when this happens puts on a jumpsuit and goes out to provide specialist care, as well as being an A&E doctor when the shit hasn't totally hit the fan. He must see this every week...... and just keeps on keeping on, while I claim to be stressed as hell because someone doesn't quite have as much sunscreen raw material on their delivery as they think they need.
No words for the gratitude.
V8ninety - how did you know what was coming this week, and you also in the trade (I know Drac is).... if so, thanks for all you do.