This is very odd and I think ive read about a similar scam on here ages ago. What do you all think is going on?
I'm selling a rare record on ebay and have listed it as a buy it now. Buyer A from Germany has contacted me outside of ebay (i know, i know) and made a generous offer. He then paid me £200 directly into paypal. I can see it in my PP account. At exactly the same time Buyer B, also from Germany, buys the record at full price on ebay. Doesn't make any offer. So the item is now listed in ebay as Paid and is for me to now post out.
Assuming everything is on the level I have been paid twice and I should simply refund Buyer A via paypal and then honour the ebay transaction and post it to Buyer B. But i feel something very off is going on.
Buyer A and B are the same person.
Buyer A and B are the same person.
Yes or two people working in tandem. But whats the scam? Ive been paid by both
Both were drunk
You refund buyer A. Buyer B claims "not as described" and also claims a refund. You're £200 out of pocket and have no record. The PayPal account(s) will be using phished log-in details.
If it looks like a scam, walks like a scam, quacks like a scam etc...
Refund buyer A. Use ebay delivery service, insured to max to send to buyer B. Surely that shoud be enough to make it secure. Probably take photos of the item before packaging then before posting.
Or just refind both and relist it.
Seems a bit suss to me. stick with the ebay process, refund the unsolicited £200.
stick to the "proper" process and you should maintain any protection PP or ebay offer.
Is the scam that if you go outside ebays process you forfeit any protection they offer, so they can call back both amount of money and theres nothing you can do about it?
They'll both try to claim the money back of course. I'd cancel and let them claim their money back. Easier than posting it (to who?) and hoping that you don't get scammed.
Thanks for help so far. If i send to either buyer - Once ebay put the money in my current account (apparently in two days time), how are they able to extract it back? Also if i extract the money from Paypal how does paypal get the money back?
Refund both. Throw item in bin. Have an easy life.
Update - I've just had an email from ebay saying my money has been sent to my current account. This would be from Buyer B.
Update – I’ve just had an email from ebay saying my money has been sent to my current account. This would be from Buyer B.
1. eBay can get the money back from your account.
2. Is the money actually there (ie, can you see it on online banking), or is it just an email that looks like it's from eBay?
3. If it is, maybe consider posting the item with tracking but DO NOT refund the first "buyer" under any circumstances. It's their fault they've paid twice.
Checked my current account, the money is there. Buyer B (via ebay) seems to have a lot of positive feedback inc various metal music stores (its a metal record i'm selling).
So I am thinking that i could honour the ebay sale and send with full protection (£200)?
Why would i not refund Buyer A via paypal? If this is a genuine coincidence i don't want to rip someone off.
You refund buyer A. Buyer B claims “not as described” and also claims a refund. You’re £200 out of pocket and have no record.
If that's the scam, what's the role of buyer A? I'm not arguing, I just don't understand. Buyer B could claim that after a normal eBay winning bid.
Do not send the record out to either. Not worth the risk. PayPal nearly always sides with the buyer in a dispute so this is how they'd get their money back. The behaviour and way of going about buying it is too generous and too weird.
Refund and walk away.
In fact I'd do nothing for the time being. Let them sweat on it.
It screams scam, so **** em. Let them wait, see what happens, as at the moment you are in total control. They are relying on honest decent folk 'doing the right thing' and honouring the sale.
Buyer B could claim that after a normal eBay winning bid.
So you refund Buyer A because they paid early and separately from eBay, then post out the record. Buyer B claims it's not delivered / broken / defective and eBay refunds them £200. So they now have the record and are £200 up.
Buyer B claims it’s not delivered / broken / defective and eBay refunds them £200. So they now have the record and are £200 up.
But as Greybeard says, thats always the risk of any ebay sale. If i pay for the £200 insurance (its £10) and take photos etc then I should be OK shouldnt I?
Imagine if this situation without Buyer A in it? You’d post it out without hesitation.
Just do that and refund Buyer A.
But this isn't an imaginary situation, and buyer A is in it. Which is where your advice falls flat. Its too much of a coincidence. You'd have to be mad to take a risk on this given the warning signs.
I'm not convinced this is a scam
The idea that buyer A and B are the same person is still speculation, right?
If true, the only possible role of buyer A that I can think of, is to give paypal/ebay a record that you sold the same item to two different buyers, putting you on the back foot in any dispute. That makes some sense, but if you refund buyer A before sending to buyer B, it kind of makes that point mute
For that reason I would certainly not do what jhinwxm suggests, and not refund either to let them sweat -- that could either help the scammer if they were trying what I suggest above, just land you with negative feeback from buyer B if not
Personally, if buyer B has good feedback, and the paypal recieved from them is linked to their ebay account with a confirmed postal address and everything, I'd just post it -- recorded and tracked
EDIT: I'd probably google 'common scams' or something first to see is this comes up
Right - I'm sort of with legometerology on this. Buyer A now refunded via paypal. Will post to buyer B tomorrow through the ebay postage scheme and insure the full £200.
Absolute madness. Are you that desperate to sell?
How has buyer A got your paypal address?
It's not normally in your ebay profile or on an item for sale.
I'd walk away from both in this situation and limit to only UK sales.
Damaged item claim incoming.
Anything at all that sets any alarm bell off on eBay walk away. It was enough of an alarm bell for you to post about it on here.
As tomlevell said - how did buyer get your paypal address?
Damaged item claim incoming.
Anything at all that sets any alarm bell off on eBay walk away. It was enough of an alarm bell for you to post about it on here.
Exactly. But he's decided to take some bad advice. legometeorology for some reason is saying take the risk. WTF? I would bet that if he was the seller he would not do what is he is suggesting. Not a chance.
Oh and good luck relying on eBay and PayPal to make the right call in any dispute. They're useless and nearly always side with the buyer.
buyer A got paypal address from me. sent me an email and we discussed price etc outside of ebay. yes i know this was a daft thing to do. i think geed and the sight of a sale got the better of me.
How long was it listed for before this happened?
I totally get that someone can say an item is damaged and try and get a refund. But they would have to send the item back to do this. And this would apply to every ebay sale, so the message is never use ebay?
If it is a scam, then no one seems able to explain the role of Buyer A.
its a metal record i’m selling
Out of curiosity, what is it as I have loads of metal vinyl and I am sure some of it is pretty valuable and worth sticking on Ebay.
How long was it listed for before this happened?
About a day. I had 3 people express an interest and wanting to negotiate on price. Then a 4th person just bought it at the buy it now price.
Johndoh - Cannibal Corpse "Eaten Back to Life" white label promo with original sellers notes from Metal Blade.
I totally get that someone can say an item is damaged and try and get a refund. But they would have to send the item back to do this. And this would apply to every ebay sale, so the message is never use ebay?
If it is a scam, then no one seems able to explain the role of Buyer A.
Paypal almost always sides with the buyer. Who knows what the scam actually is. But the point is, which you continually seem to miss is that its just not worth the risk. Thats it. It obviously is suspicious or we wouldn't be here now. The reason you posted this thread is that your gut instinct told you something isn't right. Yet you're now saying ah stuff that I'll chance it. I really don't get it. Unless you're minted and £200 is neither here not there to you.
Cannibal Corpse “Eaten Back to Life” white label promo with original sellers notes from Metal Blade.
Ahh - not in my collection.
About a day. I had 3 people express an interest and wanting to negotiate on price. Then a 4th person just bought it at the buy it now price.
Sounds to me like you listed something rare at a fair price and had lots of interest. People likely have alerts set up for new listings.
You might get a slap on the wrist from ebay for giving buyer A external contact details but I don't think you're being scammed.
Yet you’re now saying ah stuff that I’ll chance it. I really don’t get it. Unless you’re minted and £200 is neither here not there to you.
Steady on old bean. No need to get all animated and angry.
The thing im trying to understand, and the purpose of the post, was to find out what the scam may be. As there is no obvious scam that someone can spell out then that is informing my decision.
@jhinwxm I certainly don't want to seem complacent about this. I read a couple of articles on common ebay scams, to put my mind at ease that I wasn't giving op bad advice. This dual-buyer-thing wasn't in the list
So I just don't see any additional risk over a normal sale, given that no one can explain the role of buyer A in a scam. But I do see a high risk of getting negative feedback from a genuine buyer, which is not ideal
So, Blackflag, don't let me push you towards selling if you aren't comfortable -- I'm just not at all convinced it's a scam
*Incidentally, I got a scam text yesterday. 'mum I've lost my phone please whatsapp'. Well, I don't have a smartphone so can't watsapp. I suspect my daughter would know that. I don't have a daughter though, nor am I female. Point is that scams are normally more obvious than this one
Paypal almost always sides with the buyer
Paypal and Ebay are seperate things these days. Buyer A for the OP paid via paypal, he's now been refunded so is out of the equation.
I sold a record for 150 quid on Discogs a couple of weeks ago - the last sale in the sales history.
Rave 2 The Grave - Give A Little Love / NRG
https://www.discogs.com/release/13538722-Rave-2-The-Grave-Give-A-Little-Love-NRG
I've only sold two records and that's so I can reinvest the cash in other records.
I was ultra paranoid it was all going to go wrong. What didn't help was although the guy paid immediately, I had zero comms back from him.
I was thinking it would be easy to have a bashed up copy, go on Discogs and buy a NM copy then claim the newly purchased one was the bashed up one and return that.
But, after all that....it went fine.
One thing I did do on my auction was say sell to UK only. It just seems a lot less hassle.
Now as a complete aside....I sold a Crafty+ vap on eBay a year or so ago for 130 quid. It was perfect, but the guy I sold it to claimed it was broken. He sent it back and using the associated app, I noticed he'd used it for a couple of hours before deciding he didn't want it.
I told eBay and go knows why, but they refunded the guy and paid me the cash I would have got from the sale. So, I ended up with the vap and the cash!
While unlikely seeing as these are also Germans this came to mind. A uk chap taken court in Germany over cancelled eBay listing.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/elderly-brit-ordered-pay-12000-29555106
So far as I understand it, eBay don't know about Buyer A, as contact was through email, and paypal know that payment was made and refunded, but not what it was for. So the OP isn't at risk from eBay or paypal because of Buyer A. Nobody but the OP and STW know about Buyer A (except that the OP has named the record, so this thread will show on searches by Buyer A, Buyer B, etc - I'd be asking the mods to remove that post)
Refund both and relist for £500 simples
Steady on old bean. No need to get all animated and angry.
The thing im trying to understand, and the purpose of the post, was to find out what the scam may be. As there is no obvious scam that someone can spell out then that is informing my decision.
I'm not angry (bizarre claim) or animated. More baffled. People claiming PayPal will have your back so to speak have clearly never had to deal with them much. They are dreadful. But hopefully you won't have any such issues. Good luck.
Sorry, your post just read that way to me, ive obviously just read it wrong. Have a good day