[Closed] Alternatives to WhatsApp... What are they, and can they talk to WhatsApp?

You can get other messenger apps such as KakaoTalk or iPhones iMessage, I message will need the person to have an iPhone and KakaoTalk will need them to have the app, it’s mostly used in Asia. Don’t think you can use WhatsApp without having WhatsApp

Doubt any other platforms can integrate with WhatsApp seeing as the messages are encrypted.

Loads of alternatives though, Discord, Telegram, Signal etc

Sorry, I can't help but I must admit to having a little smirk when all the folk who were so against using evil Messenger are now stuck on WhatsApp.

The problem you have is that whilst it is easy for you to change platform, everyone else will stick with WhatsApp.

OUtside of lockdown every single one of my kids clubs and activities are organised via WhatsApp groups. If it wasn't for these groups, I wouldn't have a clue where they need to be or when.

I find WhatsApp a very good, clean and secure platform, I have no concerns about using it at all (even if I do get frustrated about people in groups charing pictures of their takeaway coffeesor new hair cuts.

A number of alternatives but you're problem is there's zero interoperability (as already said) so unless all your mates change as well then you're a bit stuck.

I used to like WA but have a dislike of FB so was disappointed when they bought WA. Still use it for group stuff but have been using Signal for about 15 months for a bit of personal stuff.
It's not as full featured but I really like it and they share no data with anyone - developed by the guys who started WA as well I believe.

I've started using signal. It's OK. I haven't been hacked by any foreign intelligence agencies yet, but that's possibly more because I'm not a terrorist.

(EDIT: that I know of).

Can you use Signal (or indeed any other options) be used from a desktop?
WhatsApp desktop is brilliant for me when I'm sat at home on the PC so I don't really want to move to a platform that I can only use on my phone.

I find WhatsApp a very good, clean and secure platform, I have no concerns about using it at all

This. No ads, no shite (apart from whoever you're stuck with on it) perfectly good app.

What's the saying about if you can't see the price then you're the product?

Id rather pay FB 75p or whatever it is each year for Watsapp and have the ability to chat without anyone reading it and using it to target adds.

The problem you have is that whilst it is easy for you to change platform, everyone else will stick with WhatsApp.

This is the issue but the messages are still encrypted end to end so its not really bad

Can you use Signal (or indeed any other options) be used from a desktop?

Yes infact I think either signal or telegram (maybe both?) allow video call from desktop. I think telegram has some massive file sharing options too so arguably better.

I use Threema for anything discreet. Bit more niche but secure if that’s a concern.

I am sticking to WhatsApp for the moment but is contemplating moving to Signal etc.

I am using it purely because all my ex-schoolmates are using it and I was asked to join.

If anyone from WhatsApp or Govt agent snoops on me then let me say to you that I pray to the grim reaper(s) to welcome you to his Covid garden for a cup of tea, and perhaps few more of your friends together to join the party.

This is what boils my pee about FB, WA, etc.

I've switched to signal and it's great. There is a desktop app which works well too. It has prompted some difficult conversations with groups that I have encouraged to switch, but they have mainly been receptive and the conversations seem to create a snowball effect that I hope means more people come over to it. In the meantime I am running signal and whatsapp but hoping to ditch whatsapp soon. My perspective is that if there is an alternative which does everything whatsapp does but isn't linked to facebook, then why not use it.

I don't use BookFace whatever since day one, I saw them coming, but I was rather annoyed when I found out BookFace took over WhatsApp in 2014 and now being asked to use it by me ex-classmates.

I am slowly persuading me friends to move to Signal etc ... see how that goes. It needs everyone to change ...

My perspective is that if there is an alternative which does everything whatsapp does but isn’t linked to facebook, then why not use it.

Agreed.

It's a slowly and steady nudging people along sort of approach. One stubborn group I just suggested that they try it for a month. Two weeks in they all love it and are encouraging their friends.

nice graphic sharkbait. thx

do you know where it originated?

Of course if Signal, Telegram or whoever hit a certain critical mass they will either a) sell to Facebook or b) look to monetise your data themselves.

Just stick with WhatsApp - it's the 21 century, your data isn't yours whoever you use.

This is what boils my pee about FB, WA, etc.

Is the source of this reliable, because that list looks inaccurate. It takes no information on "contacts" or location for example, and it only takes information such as transactions or customer support where you use it to contact a business account who have made a decision to collect such data from those that contact their customer service via Whatsapp.

I've no doubt Whatsapp is gathering a bit more than the likes of Signal, but the actual list of what they collect is not exactly invasive, and not the list you posted.

That graphic is probably worst case scenario, I am pretty sure they would not be allowed to collect at least some of that data by European data laws, and if you have an iphone, apple's terms and conditions which sandbox apps.

And if signal doesn't use contact info, it's going to be a very private conversation involving 1 person, I don't need an app to talk to myself.

I found graphics like that in this article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/01/09/stop-using-whatsapp-after-facebook-apple-imessage-and-signal-privacy-backlash/?sh=5d4ff9bd6cf5

That's pretty defeatist danny, this seems like an opportunity for consumers to say "hold on facebook, we aren't happy with this model"

Signal is the open source platform that WhatsApp uses for its service, without the horrible data collection. We use it at work, and I'm encouraging people to use Signal where possible.

Here's a useful list of the stuff WhatsApp collects vs what Signal and Telegram collect: Whatsapp is a very naughty boy. Like, Really Naughty

do you know where it originated?

Saw it a couple of weeks ago having done some research as a friend reported a load of her contacts suddenly appearing on Signal.
Not sure of it's absolute origin but I just grabbed it from here:
https://setapp.com/lifestyle/signal-vs-telegram-how-to-choose-the-best-whatsapp-alternative-in-2021

Of course if Signal, Telegram or whoever hit a certain critical mass they will either a) sell to Facebook or b) look to monetise your data themselves.

Doubtful with Signal. Started by the guys who started WA but left after FB took it over. They're all about the privacy so won't be going down that road again.

it’s the 21 century, your data isn’t yours whoever you use.

Well clearly it can be.

Of course if Signal, Telegram or whoever hit a certain critical mass they will either a) sell to Facebook or b) look to monetise your data themselves.

It's 21 century ... you move on to the next app.

Most of them will sell you for a quick return, the trick is to get away when they start doing it.

it’s the 21 century, your data isn’t yours whoever you use.

It's a terrible idea to just accept the abuse of our privacy so easily, the past 4 or 5 years shows how it is used against us. Trump, brexit and populism in general is still rising because that data harvested from our freely given accounts is abused to nudge thoughts along a certain paths.

Just stick with WhatsApp – it’s the 21 century, your data isn’t yours whoever you use.

I'm of the same opinion - Google have far more useful information about me than Facebook or Whatsapp, and I have no intention to stop using them either. If my data is utilised for targeted ads to pay for these free apps, so be it.

My friend has removed Whatsapp and Facebook because he is very paranoid about the way social media has been used in votes and elections. My thinking is if you're enlightened enough to know about the likes of Cambridge Analytica, then you're probably gaining your information from more reputable sources than something shared on Facebook.

Doubtful with Signal. Started by the guys who started WA but left after FB took it over. They’re all about the privacy so won’t be going down that road again.

One well known phrase or saying 'Do no evil'...

Got reluctantly dragged into WhatsApp 2 years ago for son’s football team, but never been keen on it especially when I found out it was Facebook.

I think I saw some post the other day where someone mentioned alternatives, but can’t recall what.

there is a specific app (probably multiple) called Spond designed just for organizing teams etc - its designed around the use case you refer to. I've minimal experience but it seems to work IF you can get everyone to use it - rather than some on one thing and some on another.

This odious shit with Facebook closing GameStop share discussion groups has given me further reason to try to get out.

Facebook can't win though - if they ignore the content on their platform people complain that free speech is not a right to break the law, and if they take steps to stop groups which are probably breaking the law by price fixing they upset the masses for preventing free speech.

What are these other apps, and can they communicate with WhatsApp chats. ( Like yahoo mail, Gmail etc) or are they just within the platform?

No. The end to end encryption used by WhatsApp doesn't lend itself well to interoperability. Which means even FB do not know what you are saying in your chats on WA. Its the solution to the "I want privacy" complaint, and I'm quite impressed that FB have resisted the temptation to remove e2e encryption, monetise it, etc. I'm sure they can probably tell how many times I open the app, which groups I am reading most etc - but I can't think of anything it does which concerns me. In fact if I was going to discuss manipulating share prices I'd seriously consider using WA to do it! Of course the biggest vulnerability it the other person(s) who are in the conversation.

My thinking is if you’re enlightened enough to know about the likes of Cambridge Analytica, then you’re probably gaining your information from more reputable sources than something shared on Facebook

It's not about the individual though is it. I'm happy that you won't be influenced but what about the damage they do to the rest of the population that fall for the Cambridge Analytica approach, that in some way results in us all suffering the effects of Brexit and Trump.

And if signal doesn’t use contact info, it’s going to be a very private conversation involving 1 person

Why? All it has is a phone number.
Signal works differently to WA in that everything is stored purely on the phone rather than a server somewhere.
Kinda like sending an encrypted SMS - once it's gone it's out of your hands.... you can't stop the recipient seeing it.

I remember paying to download the WhatsApp app when I first started using it.

There was a long explaination shown about why they made the decision to charge for the app rather than offer it for free and sell your data.

I’m of the same opinion – Google have far more useful information about me

But Google aren't Facebook.

If Messenger is supposed to result in targeted ads then they're shit at it.

it. I’m happy that you won’t be influenced but what about the damage they do to the rest of the population

So are people boycotting them in protest?

The invite from Signal says "privacy focused equivalent of WhatsApp" so I'd interpreted that as users being concerned about the safety and pricy of their data

The problem you have is that whilst it is easy for you to change platform, everyone else will stick with WhatsApp.

This. My mate sent me a message saying something like - "getting rid of Whatsapp, moving to Wickr/Telegram/Whatever it was. I've not heard from him since 🙂

the best explanation i heard about WA collecting data was
"they cant read the content of your message, because that is encrypted, but they can access and read all the metadata attached to that message"

that sits pretty well with the list in the graphic above..therefore the list being 'worst' case

(apols, ive not read the subsequent links yet)

You could just check at source rather than worrying about whether random uncredited Internet images are reliable or not.

https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answering-your-questions-about-whatsapps-privacy-policy

This. My mate sent me a message saying something like – “getting rid of Whatsapp, moving to Wickr/Telegram/Whatever it was. I’ve not heard from him since 🙂

Yes it's a good way to find out your mates aren't the good mates you once thought they were.

Completely flummoxed by this. Various groups in the UK, EU & US whining about how Facebook is too dominant and needs to be restricted, competed against.

WTF do they not just mandate that there needs to be some interface between the different models to allow messages from one platform to another? Fair enough, they may need to limit some functionality to lowest common denominator, but it would resolve the issue of allowing people to migrate away if they wanted without having to get critical mass of all their friends.

I can understand wanting to boycott WhatsApp on political grounds due to a dislike of their owners. The reason I wouldn't go into a Wetherspoons had nothing to with the quality of the beer.

But you need to exercise just a little bit of caution when you see a big scary list of permissions. The question then becomes not 'what' but 'why'. They could be nefarious, or they could be innocuous.

Take "contacts" in that image above. You may think 'OMG why does WhatsApp need access to my contacts, it's sending it all to Facebook!' (who probably has all that data anyway, but by the by). But one feature of WA is if you're messaging someone you know, it'll display the name you know them by rather than a phone number. To that it has to look it up somewhere. And sure, this isn't essential and you still have a manually set display name you can send instead, but then on Android at least permissions are granular so if you don't want it to have access you can just say no when you install it.

Not to mention the list is inflated by duplication.

WTF do they not just mandate that there needs to be some interface between the different models to allow messages from one platform to another? Fair enough, they may need to limit some functionality to lowest common denominator

In which case what's the point of having multiple systems that all do exactly the same thing? Might as well just have one. Here's your state-approved messaging system, comrade.

So are people boycotting them in protest?

It is effectively a protest yes. All of this is linked though, the invasion of privacy is one angle, but it's what they do with the data that is really concerning to me.

WTF do they not just mandate that there needs to be some interface between the different models to allow messages from one platform to another? Fair enough, they may need to limit some functionality to lowest common denominator, but it would resolve the issue of allowing people to migrate away if they wanted without having to get critical mass of all their friends.

who is "they"?
what if you decide to create a new platform tomorrow that overcomes some perceived issue with today's one, but your lowest common denominator undermines it?
Surely the lowest common denominator is SMS?

Does it have to be either/either?

I’d happily ditch WA but as mentioned, people will not follow you to Signal. I installed Signal ages back and never used it... just checked now and all of ten of my contacts are on it. I’ll endeavour to use that (and Telegram) more and maybe their user base will grow - it won’t if we just dig our heels in and say, but nobody uses the others!

Reminds me of Linux bitd. I used a distro with absolutely no proprietary code in the kernel. Great in principal, not so great if your wireless chip manufacturer doesn’t open source its FW, you can’t print and it runs your laptop battery down in twelve minutes. You just have to accept there’s going to be the odd blob of non-free code.

Railing against something that you don’t understand but sounds scary is the domain of anti-vaxxers and people who don’t eat “chemicals”.

You're right to be concerned. I think it's dangerous to just inherently trust big companies to be responsible with our data, whether that's in how they use it or how they safeguard it, and people are generally too quick to give out personal data. "Your heavy metal band is the day you were born and your birth month in this lookup table!" "Great, I'm Toxic Pigeon!" And you've just put your date of birth in the public domain where tens of thousands of complete strangers are reading it, well done. "Your stripper name is the name of your first pet followed by the name of your first car!" and now I've got the answers to the security questions on your bank account.

I don't trust Facebook as far as I could kick it. However, I also recognise it as a useful tool. So I use it but I exercise caution in what I share with it. Being concerned is laudable but the point at which you're making things up and filling in the blanks is the point where you're probably doing more harm than good and you should go do some reading to find out.

what if you decide to create a new platform tomorrow that overcomes some perceived issue with today’s one, but your lowest common denominator undermines it?

We've already tried this anyway, bringing the world together with a unified common language. It's called Esperanto. And now everyone speaks it fluently.

Is Signal free of charge to use? If it is, there must be some way the developers can make money out of it, or will in the future.

I'm happy to pay a small charge for data privacy. I'm not too bothered about apps or websites that want to show me adverts, unless there are so many it interferes with using them, but I object to any that want to steal my contacts - their personal data is not mine to give away. I would also be very concerned if, rather than just showing me adverts they do want me see, they block me from seeing what I want to see. I can cope with Google pushing the search result I want down six places, but if it turns out they are hiding things I'll have to find a way to stop using them.

Is Signal free of charge to use? If it is, there must be some way the developers can make money out of it, or will in the future.

Yes it is free to use (unlike Whatsapp, where you became the product when facebook bought it).

Signal Technology Foundation is a nonprofit 501c3 tax-exempt organization based in the United States. We don’t run ads, but we still need to pay for servers and staff. That’s where a donation from you can make a real difference. If you find Signal Messenger useful, we welcome your support.
https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360031949872-Donor-FAQs

I've been using it for about 3-4 years, donate every now and again. Would recommend.

It might be worth saying that there's a difference between what your phone has permission to read (aka permissions on the app stores), and what information is collected by the app and sent to the app provider (and possibly to be shared/sold to third parties). Only Apple have really put a spotlight on the latter with their recent introduction of "Privacy Labels". On Android we have no such information, only the privacy policy of the app provider.

The image you see where Signal only collects your phone number is referring to what data is collected and sent/stored on the signal server. It has also has permission to read your contacts, and other things like your pictures (if you allow it).

So Signal has shown that it is possible to make a fully functioning messaging app (with attachments, video chat, group video chat, etc) without collecting your entire phone book, or any other such personal information, the only thing it stores in plaintext on the server is your phone number, which is actually pretty impressive technologically.

And for what it's worth: "people will not follow you to Signal." isn't my experience.