[Closed] Almost unparalleled natural crisis?

Okay, we have a lot of rain and high seas etc but if it wasnt for human meddling in the landscape and greed by developers and shortsightedness by planners and people buying houses etc then people wouldnt be in this mess.

If it wasn't for human meddling in the landscape we wouldn't all be here now would we?

Can't you just shoot the water? Blow it up a bit?

That's what they've called the Army in for isn't it?

I guess we could boil it away? How many millions of tons of water do you reckon we have? Need to do a quick back of the envelope calculation.

If it wasn't for human meddling in the landscape we wouldn't all be here now would we?

Well we are the biggest natural disaster to hit the planet.

If you want extreme weather disasters, don't forget the '52 Lynmouth flood. 9 inches of rain in 24 hours, 100 houses destroyed and 34 dead overnight.

If we're including disasters which are the combination of weather and man's meddling, how about this one? 4,000 plus dead over four days and its aftermath.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/gallery/2012/dec/05/60-years-great-smog-london-in-pictures

I do believe that's it's only technically a disaster if Bankers are inconvenienced. Otherwise, it's just a minor incident.

John Kettley is a weatherman, a weatherman, a weatherman...

the media and political attention certainly did seem to ramp up a notch when the flooding spread from SW into SE commuter belt.

I think it's 'unparalleled' as the more accurate 'bit of a pain in the ass but not really all that problematic for the vast majority of people even in the South' isn't quite so media friendly.

I am being inconvenienced at the moment with the village fairly well flooded in parts, but it isn't exactly armageddon. Ocado are still delivering 😀

I don't think comparing fatalities with much older events is really a valid comparison; safety is a much higher priority now so stuff is so much safer and many relevant fields are simply much better now; communications, infrastructure, risk management and weather forecasting have greatly improved in the last few decades.

If Lynmouth happened now it could have been predicted earlier, residents could have been informed more reliably, rivers and forests are managed with flood risk a higher priority, and assistance could have arrived more rapidly and much better equipped.

I was quite surprised to see Army 4 tonners rolling down Marlow high street last night. But then again I did see that the kiddy swings in the park had been cordoned off so maybe more help was needed. We added our names to the local volunteer list, but we keep being told that no requests for help have been received around here.

This morning I spoke to an old lady who lives on Long Island in the middle of the Thames. She has lived there for 60 years and today she decided to move out to a hotel. Apparently the water was lapping at her bottom step. She inferred that having those 60 years experience meant she knew more about Thames flooding than most. She was not worried too much saying that the signs were there that the water was managing itself and it would not get that much worse.

If Lynmouth happened now it could have been predicted earlier

you mean like boscastle was?

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Yep, Operation 'Bugger All' seems to sum it up nicely.

while i find it quite sad that any/every 'disaster' must be jumped upon by both the media (to fill airtime) and politicians (for pre election point scoring)

i am actually more offended by the general publics greedy consumption of that media* and knee jerk affiliation with their previously chosen and often lifelong political party (none of which caused this nor are able to fix it)

*guilty as the rest of you - on the news last night they found someone willing to blame the Thames on a lack of dredging, that could only be topped if he had gotten in a mention of either Thatcher or Hitler.

When the affluent are in the effluent the politicians suddenly wake up.

Too little effort too late, same old, same old.

you mean like boscastle was?

Fair point! Even so though, wikipedia says the total cost to life and limb was a single broken thumb, so while it's not perfect it's still an enormous improvement!

Yes it has rained a lot and for a long time, but this is the UK where it rains a lot and for a long time.

So whats different this time?

Not dredging rivers is the obvious mistake? of is it?

I suggest the deliberate choice to abandon water management (dredging rivers, clearing culverts, chines, road drains, etc,etc) by the last 3 Government.s The Environment Agency bending to pressure groups such as RSPB, save the water voles, etc, etc allowing what money that was available to be frittered away saving animals not protecting lives and property.

So you see BLAME can be apportioned and My Mate Dave doesn't want to attract any blame especially as the election is just round the corner, as it was succinctly put earlier

affluent are in the effluent it matters

So send in the Army after you made 20,000 of them redundant and look for a scape goat, thankfully one of Blair's cronies head the EA, phew that was stroke of luck.

Is it political, "YES" the south overreacting "YES", media frenzy "YES or it's actually worse than it looks "Its bad but in comparison to 2008 not really"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26165914 First few mins London 1947

Lots of other places flooded over the years mostly oop north and Wales, and nothing got done, strangely when Effluent meets affluent, the army is brought in, perhaps the ones in power read my previous thread title and thought, yes what do they do,lets get them to work,makes good tv snippets, and shows daily mail readers we are doing something.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-do-army-squaddies-do-all-day-when-there-is-no-war

Staines-Upon-Thames???!!! 😯

WTF?!

That's like Hamble-le-Rice. FFS!

Since when was Staines given a fancy name with hyphen's? About the time someone figured that no one could afford inner M25 property and it's cheaper to make a very dour concrete town sound a little more desirable to commute from. Must be doing wonders for the property prices, except for the current situation of it being Staines-in-Thames 🙂

*guilty as the rest of you - on the news last night they found someone willing to blame the Thames on a lack of dredging, that could only be topped if he had gotten in a mention of either Thatcher or Hitler.

Not often we see Godwin's law in action on STW!

But it makes the best news we've had in a long time, I just love seeing 7 figure Thames view homes full of water, don't see why the reporters aren't just laughing.

[img] ?oh=2717b54112a6909ae35951c2f3644434&oe=52FF4E08&__gda__=1392450214_34e667242adf0e9a0ed24b7def89714a[/img]

Yes it has rained a lot and for a long time, but this is the UK where it rains a lot and for a long time

Not like this. This is pretty unusual.

I don't remember the Yorkshire floods lasting months btw, did they?

So Beeboid Harrabin and the Met Office suspect man made climate change is at play. These would be same people who in November forecast a drier than average winter ?

The gymnastics being used to link the current floods and AGW are gold medal worthy.

I don't remember the Yorkshire floods lasting months btw, did they?

As it's on the news again down here in Oz there is nothing about the areas that have been under for months just the posh bits.

Did they last for months then?

Met Office suspect man made climate change is at play. These would be same people who in November forecast a drier than average winter

a) no
b) they said some signs might indicate a dry winter but you can never really tell
c) stop being so thick

Radio 2 news this morning referred to the floods as the "worst in living memory".

b) they said some signs might indicate a dry winter but you can never really tell

So what gives you any confidence in their longer term predictions?

peterfile - Member
Radio 2 news this morning referred to the floods as the "worst in living memory".

Was that before a Jeremy Vine Factastic(TM) phone in

haha, no idea 🙂 just flicked over at 7am to catch Moira Stewart delivering the bad news to the [s]nation[/s] south

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26172688

"This year, each of the [rain] events that we've seen has not been notable but the rainfall accumulation has been exceptional," says Simon Parry from the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology. He points to the figures for the River Thames, which has been above what is regarded as a notable high-flow mark since Christmas Eve, "which is twice as long as any time in the last 130 years".

Meanwhile, 200,000 Indonesians affected by eruption of Mt Kelud...

The problem with this weather is it's that really wet type of rain that soaks you right through.

Unparalleled natural crisis? I'm sure the bees, fish and inhabitants of the worlds rain forests are like WTF!

"The attribution of these changes to anthropogenic [caused by humans] global warming requires climate models of sufficient resolution to capture storms and their associated rainfall," it says....."Such models are now becoming available and should be deployed as soon as possible to provide a solid evidence base for future investments in flood and coastal defences."

But in the meantime, we know (sic) who/what to blame.

Meanwhile, 200,000 Indonesians affected by eruption of Mt Kelud...

Someone on my FB feed (a good friend), just suggested that it was inappropriate for us to make such an effort to financially assist those affected by the typhoon in the phillipines last year, yet put nothing in place to help the victims of this flooding. Sometimes, it all just gets a bit too much.

I'm sorry to keep referring to the rest of the world but where does the current crisis rate?

Typhoon Haiyan is feared to have killed more than 10,000 people in the Philippines. Here are the natural disasters in the last decade that had higher death tolls:

— March 11, 2011: A magnitude-9.0 earthquake off northeastern Japan causes a tsunami that sweeps onto the coast. About 19,000 people are killed and three nuclear reactors melt at the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant.

— Jan. 12, 2010: A 7.0 earthquake devastates Haiti's capital and surrounding cities, killing 314,000 people.

— May 12, 2008: A 7.9 temblor in China's Sichuan province kills 87,000 people. A disproportionate number of them were children killed when their shoddily built schools collapsed.

— May 2, 2008: The storm surge from Cyclone Nargis washes up densely populated areas around the Irrawaddy River delta in Myanmar, washing away whole farming villages. Around 138,000 people died.

— Oct. 8, 2005: A 7.6 earthquake kills about 80,000 people in northwestern ****stan and Kashmir.

— Dec. 26, 2004: A 9.1 earthquake off western Indonesia triggers a tsunami in the Indian Ocean, killing 230,000 people in a dozen countries.

— Dec. 26, 2003: A 6.6 earthquake flattens the historic city of Bam in southeastern Iran, and some 26,000 people are killed.

Someone on my FB feed (a good friend), just suggested that it was inappropriate for us to make such an effort to financially assist those affected by the typhoon in the phillipines last year, yet put nothing in place to help the victims of this flooding.

That sentiment is quite common it seems 🙁

Btw my comment wasn't meant to imply that our floods were a terrible disaster. I'm just commenting on the statistical rarity of this set of weather in the UK.

This is all as nothing compared to what some people have to deal with.

This is all as nothing compared to what some people have to deal with.

Tell me about it, we were nearly out of milk this morning......

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Where's that?

Btw my comment wasn't meant to imply that our floods were a terrible disaster. I'm just commenting on the statistical rarity of this set of weather in the UK.

This is all as nothing compared to what some people have to deal with.

Oh aye, I get that. There's no denying there is a lot of water knocking around. It just pains me to hear the word "crisis" when, if we're completely honest and viewing this with any sense of perspective, is an [i]inconvenience[/i] for most people.

One of the things that really humbled me when we were waiting for the typoon to hit in vietnam, was that the people who were going to be the most badly affected didn't actually have much to lose, but that just meant they stood to lose everything. When I see even the most badly affected people in our own crisis (bearing in mind the people who have had to leave their homes represents a tiny minority of those affected overall), I can't help but feel that the real hardship is having to stay in a premier inn until your insurance money comes through and your house can be repaired. I know it's terrible (our home was completely destroyed in the 90's when flood defences failed), but it's really just a massive inconvenience. Your life is not ruined, it's just made more difficult for a while.

That said, as this drags on, I do feel for small business owners, who are likely to be the real casualties of this.

That is the Street - Taunton road a few miles from where my mum lives on the Levels. It always floods along that stretch of road but ye gads, this is something else.