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pot kettle black
You have been told you are wrong by folk much better trained than you, You have been shown thr evidence that shows you to be wrong but still you insist drink driving is OK.
TJ I have not said that drink driving (as defined by the law) is OK. Only you and a few highly vocal other are saying that the law is wrong. I have seen and read the evidence which you posted, I accept that there is some merit in this but have also posted my own evidence to back up my argument as to why there might be a better way to tackle the drink drive problem, which you choose to simply ignore because it undermines your own rabid zero tolerance of anything agenda.
I am saying that the big problem is not with those having a quick pint very occasionally before driving - it's the serial offenders, often people with alcohol issues, well over the limit that are causing 70% of the accidents. These people couldn't give a stuff about the law. The rest I suspect occasionally drink and drive because they know they'll get away with it. A reduction in alcohol limits is only a distraction and will do nothing to catch and prevent these abhorrent people - only more police on the road, which I wholeheartedly support will do that. This is where the changes and money should be spent. Can you not understand these basic principles?
To be fair, I'm not really getting what all this talk of driver training is all about. It would be great if we were all trained to drive at a higher standard. However, it's my understanding that most accidents are caused by things like impatience, distraction, and drunkenness. The latter being what this thread is about.
On the other hand, I see some appalling driving from some of these 'highly trained' drivers. Not that long back, while cycling, I was passed by a police car on a clear road, on the inside of traffic island. He left about 6" of space between me and him. Perhaps they possess the skills to carry out such manoeuvres due to their superior training, but who are they to say I have the same skills and ability to hold my line?
Unfortunately people make stupid decisions regardless. The big problem is an emotional one. No amount of training will prevent people getting angry, or feeling the need to rush, or the will power not to check their phone, or end their alcoholism. There's some poor driving out there, for sure, and I'd be happy to see stricter standards. But generally speaking, the kind of people who voluntarily go for advanced driver training, are probably the ones who need it least.
I was passed the other day by a hearse which went by me in the inside lane.
Thought to myself, "Mmm, typical undertaker".
I'm here all week folks.
TJ, you're wasted on this forum mate.... you should be out there in Parliament Square with your placard, demanding a change in the law!
Surely you mean outside holyrood? 😉 ah - but we already have the lower limit here
Did you not see my statistic above that 70% of people involved in driving driving related accidents have alcohol dependancy issues? This implies that it’s not those having a single post ride pint who are the big problem.
Surely if you are that dependent that rides have to end with a beer rather than a diet coke those that need a post ride pint might well correlate highly with the dependent group.
Surely if you are that dependent that rides have to end with a beer rather than a diet coke
Bravo! A new level of sanctimony from the non-drinkers. Having a pint with your mates after a ride is clearly the slippery slope. One step away from crack and crystal meth.
A new level of sanctimony from the non-drinkers
I'm not a non drinker I just dont drink and drive, I have also passed my IAM's motorbike test too, just mentioning as it seems important here.
A new level of sanctimony from the non-drink-drivers. Having a pint with your mates after a ride is clearly the slippery slope
FTFY It's perfectly possible to enjoy a few drinks and not have to do so before driving. I guess it just depends on how desperate you are 🙂
Edit: recipient of Police Driver Training since we're keeping score.
Tj, I seem to recall you said when you came back you weren't going to argue about petty shite.
Surely if you are that dependent that rides have to end with a beer rather than a diet coke those that need a post ride pint might well correlate highly with the dependent group.
Most countries on the continent have lower drink drive limits than we do. Yet in my experience, if you walk in a bar at lunch-time, everyone is drinking. (Quite possibly the reason you're legally required to carry a breathalyser in France?) That culture is often seen as something to aspire to, at least when compared to our binge-drinking ways in the UK. A post-ride pint is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
I suppose this thread has proved it's impossible to have a sensible discussion on this without it descending in to one side calling the other alcoholics. For my part I'll stay within both the law and common sense and go back to not talking about it. Should've known better really.
After wading through all that shite I need a drink.
It does indeed seem that people on both sides are not even attempting to see the other point of view.
I can see both arguments, I note that those who might encounter the consequences at work seem more likely to want to see things changed, and I can see why (I'm sure seeing the results of one DD fatality is far worse than looking at any statistic), but I don't think their personal experiences help them to make a better decision on this point.
I just don't think you can put safety (and taking personal responsibility) above freedom to such a degree. I fully accept that if anything happened to me (or, to be more specific, a loved one) that could have been prevented I would wish something more had been done, but what is currently done only seems inadequate in terms of enforcement currently.
Having said that I generally feel road safety is quite poor, and far more should be done in general - but without inpinging on reasonable freedoms.
Having said that I generally feel road safety is quite poor, and far more should be done in general –
Hard to disagree with this
but without inpinging on reasonable freedoms.
Is saying you shouldnt drink and drive and making the limit much lower that big a deal? Struggling to see how its such a big issue for people unless they are actually much more dependent on drink than they think.
Motorcycle magazine in the noughties did a track day test to see how booze, drugs, cold and tiredness affected riding capability. Obviously they all had a negative effect, but I was very surprised by both tiredness and extreme cold.
They also did combinations and tired and cold left you way worse than being over the limit.